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Old 01-25-2012, 12:46 AM
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is offline
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Has S&W Tarnished The Walther Name (PPK?S)?  
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Default Has S&W Tarnished The Walther Name (PPK?S)?

I've been wanting a Walther PPK/S .380 for a while and looked specifically for an Interarms gun and found one. I felt a German gun would cost too much and I wouldn't get near a S&W version after all the bad news and fixes that don't seem to always work for people. My gun shoots great and I love it. No jams or anything. But has the S&W situation put a cloud over these guns in general or are the troubles exagerated? It's hard to believe they could mess up such a long proven design. Does anyone here have a S&W PPK/S and like it?

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Old 01-25-2012, 12:50 AM
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O P'shaw. Indeed, every S&W clone (I've handled/shot) was inferior to my German Ulm original. Just one mans experience.
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:56 AM
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My stainless SW PPK worked fine before the recall, After they "fixed it" it had problems. I sent it back 3 more times and it works fine now.

As for the other "Walthers" like the P22 or P380 you couldn't give me one of those. Walther should be embarrassed to have their name on those pieces of pot metal.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:07 AM
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I was looking at getting a PPK last year. My previous experience had been with a PP war souvenir in .32, and that was a fine piece of craftsmanship. I looked at one of the new PPK/S's and was incredibly disappointed. Rough machining, poor fit, tool marks, sharp edges. The Bersa in the case looked better. Sad, really.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:31 AM
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My experience with the Smith ppk was very poor. Straight from the factory it was a jammamatic. I literally could not go through a magazine without it jamming at least once. 300 rounds later, same frequent jamming, I sent it back for repairs. It worked reasonable well but still jammed ever 50 rounds or so. So I sold with a warning.

I had a Bersa 380 that was far superior to the Smith in every regard.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:33 AM
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I have a stainless PPK that I bought about 3 years ago. It worked fine. I sent it in when they did the recall, and after it came back - it worked fine. I've fired hundreds, maybe getting near 3000 rounds, of ball and hollowpoints of almost every brand and don't recall ever having a malfunction. It hits where it looks. I must be the odd guy out here, but I have been nothing but satisfied with my PPK and have never felt the need to replace it with a German gun (not that it wouldn't be nice just as an example of good workmanship) or an Interarms gun.
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Old 01-25-2012, 03:37 AM
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I bought a .380 PPK/S just before the recall was announced and sent it in for the work before I had even had a chance to fire it. After it came back, it was cleaner than it had been when delivered, and it worked fine. So whatever they did failed to make the gun worse and may have corrected a problem that I never had a chance to encounter. I like it.

I think model-specific complaints always tend to be exaggerated whether you are talking about guns, cars, motorcycles, cell phones, whatever. After the fix is determined and applied, the complaints live on. I understand that the current PPK/S is not the same gun as the one made in the 1930s, but so what? The modern 627 is not the same gun as a Registered Magnum, either.

The PPK/S has gone through different life cycles under different flags of ownership. Some defective units have always turned up. Somebody is always going to end up owning one of the duds.

Are there things about it I don't like? Yeah, the classic original lines are distorted a little by that extended shelf, so the current design looks a little malproportioned. And the safety/decocker lever is WAY too stiff. But I've been working on it, and I'll get it loosened up.

It also seems to me that if a classic design in steel can still be commercially viable in an era of synthetic frames, the market is not convinced that the S&W version of this model is not reliable. S&W is so fast to dump an underperforming line that this gun's continuing existence in the catalog testifies to established public acceptance.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:20 AM
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It truly pains me to say this, but I think S&W has tarnished not only the Walther Brand, but their own Brand as well.

I have not bought a Smith made after 1994, because most of what I have seen, shot and handled has not been up to the standards of the older S&W products. I have even seen Performance Shop guns that I would be embarrassed to ship out if the Company were mine. When a customer pays BIG BUCKS for a gun that is supposed to be the best they offer and it looks and handles like a clunker - it upsets me greatly! One of my friends just sent TWO guns from the Performance Center back to Smith for repair work, and he has over $3,000 bucks into those two PC guns - pathetic to say the least!

The triggers and actions on new production has been fair to poor, ergonomics have declined, fit, finish and QC has fallen. I won't even get into the I/L here.

They have become a shadow of their former selves IMHO. What they need is new leadership from someone who will restore the Company to its former glory.

It is a real shame too, because they do have a modernized beautiful Factory and they do have the S&W name. I truly hope they get back on track before they slide too far.

Chief38
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Old 01-25-2012, 07:36 AM
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Guess I am old fashioned and a bit weird but if I am going to buy a certain gun I want to buy one from the original manufacturer.
Looking for a 1911, it would be a Colt, a PPK ,an original Walther, and if Ruger suddenly makes a clone of a model 10 I would still buy a Smith version.
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Old 01-25-2012, 07:45 AM
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We crow and clap over CAD and CNC and yet it's the guns that were built with files and a pair of scarred hands that seem to be lasting the longest. But we keep making everything "better".

I can't say much. When I went to go buy a PPK or a P230/P232, I bought a Bersa Thunder and it hasn't given me problem one.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:46 AM
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The Bersa .380s may be bargain of all .380s. I've never handled the newer PPK/S, but I have a German Interarms, and have always been impressed with it. But, I could part with it for certain revolvers with 5 screws.....hint, hint, hint.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:47 AM
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I've only looked at and handles the newer ones. My wife just switched to a Ulm-made PP. She also looked at several "Walthers" and small pistols. The PP is much better. She chose a Bersa in 22 for practice.

The PP has it all over the newer ones.
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:03 AM
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Well said Chief38!! My LT had a S&W PPK. He sent it back twice for recall work and then dumped it at a gunshow.

I can't understand why Walther doesn't find another partner here in the US. The Walther PPQ would slay the S&W plastic guns if it got a little bit of advertising push and more exposure.

The Walther PPQ is a much better pistol than the M&P. The Walther PPQ is a polymer, striker fired gun with a REAL trigger - right out of the box. No additional purchase of aftermarket parts needed. Unlike the M&P with its lousy lawyer trigger. Regards 18DAI
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:34 AM
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With the exception of not liking Speer Lawman ammo (maybe I got a bad box?), my S&W PPK/s has performed flawlessly.
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38 View Post
It truly pains me to say this, but I think S&W has tarnished not only the Walther Brand, but their own Brand as well.
Agreed. It used to be if you owned a S&W or a Walther you had something special. Something that was made by true craftsmen and it showed. Now S&W and Walther are just brand names. Nothing special at all. At best you could get a gun that serves the intended purpose.

For my own use I wouldn't trade an older S&W or Walther for three of the new ones.
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post

The Walther PPQ is a much better pistol than the M&P. The Walther PPQ is a polymer, striker fired gun with a REAL trigger - right out of the box. No additional purchase of aftermarket parts needed. Unlike the M&P with its lousy lawyer trigger. Regards 18DAI
I agree on the trigger of the MP, I really really tried to like my MP full sized 45. It was a fine functioning gun, but accuracy was terrible. Send it back twice, they even replaced the barrel. Then all my research suggested trigger work. Forget it, not spending the money for that, might as well buy a Glock not that I like their triggers but they are a cheap easy fix.

All my plastic guns will soon be gone and stick with hammer fired Sigs and CZ's
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:43 PM
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4-5 years ago I bought a the 'Tiger Edition' engraved, gold inlay. After the break in it was FLAWLESS.
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:49 PM
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Great. I just bought a Walther P22 for my wife and now you guys are saying it's ****! To make matters worse Ruger is now selling their copy of the P-22, the SR22. Dang it!
The Walther P-22 has shot 200 rounds with no failures.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:08 PM
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I bought one for my wife and the first thing I did was to shoot the **** out of it to see that it was realiable. It functioned perfectly.

When S&W had the recall (hammer was suppose to drop when it wasn't suppose to, forget the exact problem). I tried everything possible to get the gun to malfunction the way Smith thought it would. I couldn't. Again I had no problems.

I did send it back to S&W for the repairs and when I got it back I went through the same progress, Shot the **** out of it to see if it would jam.

Nope: I have no problems what so ever with the gun. I've seen German PPks that scewed up, and I've seen German PPKs that were perfect. Maybe Smith's are the same, regardless I got a perfect one.

To be honest, I don't carry it, I like 38s so I carry a 642. However if I decided to go to a 380, I'd have no problem carrying my wife's S&W PPK............that is if my wife let me.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:15 PM
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Wow. I must need to check my used M&P40c's guts for aftermarket parts. The trigger in mine feels just fine. But I'm not above doing some polishing on a few key parts either. I may try that in mine. Other than that, I feel like it has just about the same "snapping green twig" feel that my Glock 17 has. I will admit that I have only held a PPQ in my hand but have not shot one. It gave me the feeling of "this is what a Glock 19 should feel like" when I held it.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Carry View Post
Great. I just bought a Walther P22 for my wife and now you guys are saying it's ****! To make matters worse Ruger is now selling their copy of the P-22, the SR22. Dang it!
The Walther P-22 has shot 200 rounds with no failures.
I had the Walther P22 and fluffed and buffed it as detailed in the P22 "Bible" (see rimfirecentral)

The P22 is a gun with a cool fun factor and has a very good trigger. It is just not very accurate which I can not figure out why. It has a blowback fixed Walther barrel. After completely taking it apart the fit and finish is very poor.

That being said it never jammed, trigger was great would fire as fast as you can pull the trigger and I tuned it to fire any ammo. Just do not expect nice tight groups. I wouldn't want to drop it either.

http://www.freespeech.com/1917-1911M_P22_bible.pdf

Lots of pieces.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
Well said Chief38!! My LT had a S&W PPK. He sent it back twice for recall work and then dumped it at a gunshow.
Please remind me of this the next time, while at a gun show, a private seller offers me a great "deal" on his PPK/PPKS.

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Old 01-25-2012, 10:49 PM
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I have one of the recent Smith PPK's, Have had no problems with and it puts'em where I want'em.
Never sent it back for the recall either. Didn't really care what I was hearing about the recall failures back then.
But I like mine, I did have an older version of the Bersa and it was a good gun as well and a lot cheaper than the PPK.
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:51 AM
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Default My new S&W PPK/S vs My Interarms PPK/S

This is my first post so bear with me. I've had an Interarms .380 PPK/S since I bought it new in 1983. It's always been a good little pistol and has been reliable and accurate. I decided I wanted to add a new Smith & Wesson stainless .380 PPK/S and since this is a bunch of gun enthusiasts, I don't need to explain why I "needed" it. AFTER I took delivery of the new S&W stainless, I read a lot of negative commentary about S&W and their stainless PPK so I was pretty worried. In fact, it was so stiff and tight, I couldn't get it to "work" with Snap-Caps which I like to practice my trigger technique with. I called S&W, having never fired it and the guy said, you can send it back and we'll rectify whatever needs rectification but have you shot it yet? No, I said. He said, I'll send you a return shipping label but you might want to try it at the range first. So I read some more online stuff, got alternately more worried then reassured and finally decided to have a little faith in S&W and took it to the range this morning. Two hundred rounds. Two jams. I asked the range officer for his candid opinion. He said he's pretty sure it was limp-wristing on my part and I think he's right because after the two jams (which happened early on) I was more conscientious about my grip, etc. and the gun worked flawlessly (and this is with cheap range ammo). The gun was also very accurate. At 7 and 15 yards I was pretty consistently banging an 8" circular target and my groups were pretty good. Even the range officer was impressed with my shooting and my groups. No, I'm never gonna be shooting single holes or 2.5" groups but I was very pleased with everything about the gun. It just feels like such a quality piece. At the end of the day, I'm feeling more comfortable with the advice of some internet posters who said things along the lines of "Smith & Wesson is a very good company. Take the dang thang to the range and shoot it. It'll be fine." They're right. I am going to take both PPK/Ss to the range in the next two weeks to do a side-by-side comparison and will update at that time. In the interim, I am very pleased with my new stainless S&W PPK/S.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:34 AM
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I bought my wife a S&W PPK several years ago. We haven't had a lick of problems with it.

We did send it back to Smith on the recall, but thats it. We shoot all sorts of ammo and it hasn't so much as hic-upped.

We might loose it, my Granddaughter has taken a like to it and claims it as hers now.

Guess we got a good one.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:39 PM
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I don't have a S&W PP or PPK so I can't comment on that. I have three S&Ws that I bought new: a 317, a 638 and a 625 Mountain Gun in 45 Colt. All showed good workmanship, locked up tight, had good trigger pulls and were very accurate. They get shot a lot and the center fire pistols are without any bore leading from my cast bullet loads. I'm very satisfied. I sorta gilded the lily by putting Woolf rebound springs in them, but the triggers were sure OK without them. I put Spegel grips on them, too, because I like wood instead of rubber. I don't like the lock either, but if I had a niche that could be filled by S&W, I'd sure buy another one of their handguns in a heartbeat.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:28 AM
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I had a stainless Interarms/Ranger PPK. While it looked good, it would only feed rounds with a very pointed profile, such as Hornady Critical Defense or Corbon PowrBall. Any of the blunt 95 grain FMJ rounds from any manufacturer would always jam. It was accurate enough for its intended purpose, but for its size and weight, it was too heavy and too big compared to the Kel-Tec P3AT. It was definitely a holster gun, not a pocket carry gun. I sold it to a co-worker, who sold it to a collector. Everybody was happy. Moral of the story: It's not just the new S&W PPK's that have problems.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:46 AM
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My 66 PPK was a jammomaic with anything I fed it...so I can't imagine the smith being much worse.
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Old 03-01-2015, 12:00 AM
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I realize that this an old thread but I am considering the S&W manufactured PPK/s. This is a used LNIB model manufactured in 2010 and supposedly only had 50 rounds through it. Since I may carry it on occasion, I am soliciting opinions as to its reliability based on personal experience with 2010 models. My gut tells me to move on but I have always had a weak spot for the PPK/s. Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-01-2015, 01:38 AM
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I wonder what my unfired German PPK is worth ?
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebra War Wagon View Post
I realize that this an old thread but I am considering the S&W manufactured PPK/s. This is a used LNIB model manufactured in 2010 and supposedly only had 50 rounds through it. Since I may carry it on occasion, I am soliciting opinions as to its reliability based on personal experience with 2010 models. My gut tells me to move on but I have always had a weak spot for the PPK/s. Thanks in advance.
I actually have two...the first one is the one I bought for myself and I really like it. Zero problems and it is very accurate. It has never jammed yet and I got it the first year they came out. The second, not so lucky, a buddy shot mine and had to have one. He got it and couldn't get it to not malfunction. First day at the range he was unable to get a single clip of ammo through the gun. He sold it to me that day for almost half of what he just paid. I didn't need it but I couldn't pass either. I get the thing home and find that the chamber is so chattered that the gun can't extract. S&W offered to fix it but I just honed the chamber and it has ran right as rain ever since. I am impressed with the accuracy of these guns. Fit and finish, besides the chamber on the one, is excellent. Maybe see if you can slip the slide off and take a good look at the chamber before you buy...or even better see if the seller has some fired brass you can look at. This one was really marking the brass cases. If it's there you will have no trouble seeing it.
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Old 03-01-2015, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebra War Wagon View Post
I realize that this an old thread but I am considering the S&W manufactured PPK/s. This is a used LNIB model manufactured in 2010 and supposedly only had 50 rounds through it. Since I may carry it on occasion, I am soliciting opinions as to its reliability based on personal experience with 2010 models. My gut tells me to move on but I have always had a weak spot for the PPK/s. Thanks in advance.
I've had mine for about three years zero problems. I have enough confidence in it that I carry it occasionally.
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Old 03-01-2015, 03:12 PM
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could General Motors tarnish the name of Yugo?
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Old 03-02-2015, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakebrake View Post
could General Motors tarnish the name of Yugo?
Hmm, I don't get the analogy? At all.

However, S&W did not tarnish the Walther name, but by golly, Umarex is doing a heck of a job of it. I'm not sure that you could GIVE me a current production Walther these days. Actually, you could, PM me for my shipping info, but I'll just carry it to the next gun show to flog it to someone and go buy some overpriced M855...

My 1974 vintage 22 lr PP is, however, going nowhere. That is an old school Walther and a fine little plinker.
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Old 03-02-2015, 02:40 PM
SC_Mike SC_Mike is offline
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I had a S&W version for about six months. It broke twice then there was a recall on the safety-decocker. I let them fix it and sold it.
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Old 03-02-2015, 04:17 PM
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I had problems with both a W. German and a pre-S&W American made PPK/S. It should be noted that Europeans load their ammo a bit hotter than our domestic stuff and the Walthers were designed and built for European ammo. I feel that failures to cleanly eject are the result of springs too strong for domestic ammo but it's only a theory.

I suspected that the chambered-round indicator was pushing the shell casing off the bolt face before it reached the ejector. If so, then it was largely an ammo problem.
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Old 03-02-2015, 04:29 PM
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I've had a P22 for 5-6 years now and have never had a problem with it. It is what it is. Which is a 22LR plinking pistol. The only problem I had was one of the front sight inserts launched itself into orbit and I had to buy another one from Walther.

Other than that, I've never had a jam as long as I was using decent ammunition.



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Great. I just bought a Walther P22 for my wife and now you guys are saying it's ****! To make matters worse Ruger is now selling their copy of the P-22, the SR22. Dang it!
The Walther P-22 has shot 200 rounds with no failures.
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Old 03-02-2015, 05:32 PM
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Chief38
This is one of the best post about S&W quality control I have read, very well done!!
I used to be a brand name snob when it came to firearms. because S&W is all I own in handguns, but I believe Smith could care less about it's reputation compared to making money,they should use their historian and look into other companies that had to change their qc to become solvent again.
Check Harley Davidson just a few years ago.
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Old 03-02-2015, 06:48 PM
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Well seeing that Walther was sold off A year or more ago we are all still awaiting their PPK/S, They are now in Fort Smith Arkansas. They have also inherited the repairs and parts from S&W also.

Pete
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Old 03-02-2015, 07:22 PM
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I have a S&W born PPK/S and I've had no issues with it !
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Old 03-02-2015, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebra War Wagon View Post
I realize that this an old thread but I am considering the S&W manufactured PPK/s. This is a used LNIB model manufactured in 2010 and supposedly only had 50 rounds through it. Since I may carry it on occasion, I am soliciting opinions as to its reliability based on personal experience with 2010 models. My gut tells me to move on but I have always had a weak spot for the PPK/s. Thanks in advance.
Just my 2-cents, but like the original OP of this thread I would look around for an Interarms PPK/S if I couldn't find a reasonable priced German made Walther. There have just been too many stories about continued problems with the S&W PPK's.

Don
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Old 03-03-2015, 12:23 AM
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I have owned a nazi marked PPK that was one of the slickest little pistols I ever traded off, I remember thinking what a great deal I got when guy offered me a WWI 1911 with the Property of US Government still stamped on it.
I bought a new stainless S&W .380 PPK when they first hit the market, never had any problems with it and was again amazed at what slick operating little pistols they are, a little on the heavy side but that is what contributes to their accuracy. When I got the recall notice I sent it in and got it back within about three weeks, again after a couple of boxes of ammunition never a hiccup. I thought it was a major design flaw on Smith's part to do away with the complete steel grip, mine is cutout at the back and makes it difficult to fit a decent set of after market grips, other than that I no complaints whatsoever. I feel very confident using it for a concealed carry handgun when I need something quite small.
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Old 01-22-2016, 01:20 AM
1917-1911M 1917-1911M is offline
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Quote:
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I wonder what my unfired German PPK is worth ?
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$50 Should I send you my FFL by pm? I expect you know what it is worth. M1911
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Old 01-22-2016, 01:23 AM
1917-1911M 1917-1911M is offline
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If you guys were to shoot a .32 cal PP.....you'd put those hard kicking .380s in the safe. M1911
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Old 01-22-2016, 01:56 PM
the ringo kid the ringo kid is offline
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I've had several Walthers---all WWII Walther. All my P-38s worked perfectly, have hadone each of a PP and a PPK, never any probs. I even had a Walther P-38 made in 62 w/aluminum frame...no probs. I can't say anything about these others though.
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Old 01-22-2016, 04:20 PM
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Years ago, I had a "St. Etienne" marked French made PPK/S in .380.

After a little break-in, it shot Winchester SilverTips just fine.

I sold it to a friend when I needed the money for something else.

He's hard up for funds these days, so I might try to buy it back.

What I'd REALLY like is a blued PPK in .380 for pocket carry. The local chain didn't know if they could get one when I was looking. I'm not sure they make them anymore.

Of course in the meantime, I've switched from my Smith 36 to a 3.5" .45, so a PPK or PPK/S would only be for occasional use.
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Old 01-22-2016, 06:10 PM
Dave_n Dave_n is offline
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I have an very early Interarms PPK/s made in Germany, a "Mahurin" PP in 7.65 x 17 and a prewar PPK in 7.65 x 17, so old that it has the heel magazine catch. No problems with any hardball ammo. These guns were made for hardball, though the PPK/s will fire silvertip. Dave_n
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Old 01-22-2016, 06:45 PM
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I am on the Walther forum. There are some very knowledgeable folk there, (and some pretentious, know-it-alls too). Almost every individual there is very critical of the S&W made "Walthers". They are not up to what they consider either the German or Manhurin standards. The Interarms (Ranger) guns are perceived to be better than the Smiths. I have an Interarms PPK in 7.65 and love it. I can't afford the German variety.
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Old 09-26-2016, 09:54 PM
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I have never owned a ppk. I consider it too big and heavy to be little and too little to be big. I do own several SW99 and P99 pistols. All internal parts and the frames are made by Walther. S&W made the bare slide and barrel for the SW99. The fit and finish and the tolerances of the S&W slides and barrels is superior to the Walther. That said both work very well.
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Old 09-26-2016, 10:10 PM
JayFramer JayFramer is offline
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For a blowback pistol of the Walther type, I don't think a man can do any better than one of the unissued Bulgarian Makarovs that are on the market now that are available for less than $300 and that are essentially brand new military issued sidearms:



I have bought THREE of them in the past several months and have put 3000 round through one gun with 0 failures of any kind. If you do some research on Makarovs you will find almost no one that's had a problem with them. They are as simple as a pistol can get and are dead nuts reliable, built like tanks. The 9x18mm round is cheap and available and there are some really good, potent defensive JHP loads available for them. Better ballistically than any .380 ACP. You can also get aftermarket grips to replace the red bakelite military grips if that's your thing. Yes they're communist, but that means they didn't have to be made to a certain price point and are made of old fashioned blued steel with no MIM junk or internal locks or any of that garbage.

They rock, and keep on rocking till the cows come home!!

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