The Polish Radom pistol - a fascinating history

PALADIN85020 · #51 10-26-2013, 11:58 AM

For those interested in the Radom/VIS Polish pistols, I want to alert you to a fine article on these guns in the current (December, 2013) issue of Man at Arms - for the Gun Collector magazine. This is the official NRA journal for the American arms collector. It spans 5 pages, and is well illustrated with the several variations. Authored by Gordon Bruce, the article begins on page 38 of this issue. Highly recommended for more information. While not as extensive as William York's excellent book VIS Radom, it has useful further information on these guns.

John

Nevada Ed · #52 10-26-2013, 12:47 PM

My Radom had the black grips and came with the holster with
a second magazine on the side. It was in very good shape and shot well for a older auto.
I did buy a newer barrel for it to improve its accuracy and it
did ok with the 115gr but the 124gr was the bullet weight that
it preferred with either Bullseye or Unique powder.
Fun pistol in the desert going after jack rabbits.

feralmerril · #53 10-26-2013, 01:15 PM

One of my biggest regrets is selling or trading a radom that I inherited that my uncle brought back. He was 82nd AB and said they found a case of them, 12 or 14 I think, and he and his buddys split them up. They all were new with the holsters, tools and extra magazines. I shot it a few times but at the time also had a bunch more guns he brought back etc. I really regret that as the rest of his handguns were later stolen. His had the redish brown grips.

PALADIN85020 · #54 10-26-2013, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkk41

Ain't got time for a pic right now , but one of mine has a eagle over WAA-77 and the other has an eagle over a 77.

The one with an "eagle over a 77" was made later than the first one; it's really just a shortened form of the previous "eagle over WaA 77" mark. I don't have data on when the changeover was made, but it was sometime late in the first alphabet series of which there were 2; the second series ran through "K". Each letter prefix covered about 10,000 pistols, with some letters omitted to avoid confusion with digits.

John

gunbarrel · #55 11-08-2013, 09:14 PM

I need a take down latch for mine (it's broken). Does anyone have one for sale, or know where I can get one?

Thanks in advance!

NavyGMG · #56 05-05-2014, 02:35 PM

"Some Radoms show a depression in the frame where the property or proof mark was stamped.
Does that indicate soft steel, especially on later guns?"

Texas Star, I have a very early German occupation A prefix serial number VIS P35(p) that doesn't show the Waffenamt stamp depression. The frame also exhibits some Polish marking so it was most likely assembled from pre occupation parts on hand. I think that the German made frames weren't made to the same specs as the Polish ones but even if a bit softer they're still quite serviceable.

My pistol does have the slotted mainspring housing. Back in the 1990's someone in Poland made some copies of one of the experimental shoulder stocks that were of excellent quality. Sadly it would have required doing SBR paperwork and paying the $200 tax stamp to get one. It would have made a great set.

GaryS · #57 05-05-2014, 07:14 PM

A friend of mine inherited one from his father, who was a US Army intelligence officer in WW II. His father had relieved a German officer of the gun when said German officer tried to draw and fire during capture. A butt stroke to the face ended that and my friend's dad ended up with the gun while the German ended up with a broken face.

When his dad died, he inherited the gun. When my friend got his firearms license, he invited a couple of us to the range to shoot it.

I found it to be an easy to shoot, accurate weapon.

Buford57 · #58 05-05-2014, 07:54 PM

Interesting and informative article.

A coworker carried one as his duty gun until the Dept. nixed SA semi-autos in the mid-80s. Last seen in a pawn shop, as the gun was just a tool to him.

F Troop Gunsmith LLC · #59 05-08-2015, 02:31 AM

I am looking for the sear take-down lever, to finish my P35
any help wound be help full.
Jerry Cook F Troop Gunsmith

MarkC · #60 05-08-2015, 05:50 AM

As the OP pointed out the words Fabryka Bronyi Radom which translates to Radom Arms Factory appear on the pistol. The VIS designation is from the initials of the designers Wilniewczyc and Skrzyipinski. (yes, I have noted Wilniewczyc starts with a 'W' - don't ask me)

According to Ian Hogg's 'Military Small Arms of the Twentieth Century' (1973 edition) it is acceptable to refer to the pistol as either a Radom or a VIS. W.H.B. Smith just flat out calls it a Radom.

I haven't held one of these in 20 odd years but they appear to have the VIS insignia on the right grip panel and FB on the left. I'd be interested to find out if this is in fact correct.

Texas Star · #61 05-08-2015, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkC

As the OP pointed out the words Fabryka Bronyi Radom which translates to Radom Arms Factory appear on the pistol. The VIS designation is from the initials of the designers Wilniewczyc and Skrzyipinski. (yes, I have noted Wilniewczyc starts with a 'W' - don't ask me)

According to Ian Hogg's 'Military Small Arms of the Twentieth Century' (1973 edition) it is acceptable to refer to the pistol as either a Radom or a VIS. W.H.B. Smith just flat out calls it a Radom.

I haven't held one of these in 20 odd years but they appear to have the VIS insignia on the right grip panel and FB on the left. I'd be interested to find out if this is in fact correct.

I've read that VIS is a Latin abb. for something. Never read that it's the designers' initials.

BTW, I've found some errors in Ian Hogg's books. But he's correct about the names as you gave them. The Germans called it the P-35(p). Pistole 35, Polish. (Polnisch, if my memory of German is okay.)

MarkC · #62 05-08-2015, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Star

I've read that VIS is a Latin abb. for something. Never read that it's the designers' initials.

BTW, I've found some errors in Ian Hogg's books. But he's correct about the names as you gave them. The Germans called it the P-35(p). Pistole 35, Polish. (Polnisch, if my memory of German is okay.)

Had a look on Wikipedia (yeah I know but I got lazy) and found the following;

"The handgun was prepared in late 1930, and at the beginning of 1931 the first pistols were ready for testing. Initially it was named WiS (an acronym of the Polish designers' names), later the name was changed to Vis, meaning "force" in Latin, with the wz. abbreviation for wzór ("model").[3]"

So, initially Wis but by the sound of it, by the time it went into production the name had well and truly been changed to Vis.

DEERE G · #63 12-23-2015, 05:48 PM

PlI recently inherited a Radom from my wifes grandfather. I'm trying to learn more about these pistols. Is there a way to determine an exact date (year) of manufacturing?
I believe it to be a later model from the information I have read here.
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M3Stuart · #64 12-23-2015, 09:24 PM

The coolest thing about that gun is the name "Radom". Given that 'Radar', 'Radium', even 'Radome' are all cool to say.

Radom, Radom, Radom...

Thanks for the cool history lesson!

Marshwheeling · #65 12-23-2015, 11:12 PM

Yep. Gotta get me one o' them Polish Random guns. Just for the name.

DWalt · #66 12-24-2015, 12:41 AM

Way back long time ago, I bought one for, as I remember, about $20. I liked it and it shot fine. I think I traded it off for a P-38. I haven't seen one at a gun show for a very long time.

PALADIN85020 · #67 12-24-2015, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEERE G

PlI recently inherited a Radom from my wifes grandfather. I'm trying to learn more about these pistols. Is there a way to determine an exact date (year) of manufacturing?
I believe it to be a later model from the information I have read here.

It is definitely a late war model - the lack of a takedown latch and the staked roll pins to replace it is the giveaway. The plating (or polishing?) was not done at the factory. It's difficult to give an exact dating. The eagle over 77 waffenamt stamp (a short form of the earlier eagle over Wa77) was being used by Radom in '44. The serial number is in the second alphabet series, which I believe started in '44. It went A through K, with the final pistols being made by Steyr, not at the Radom plant since the Soviets were about to invade Radom. Since yours has an A prefix, it was probably made at Radom. The elimination of the takedown latch started in the second A series; with and without were intermixed. I've seen a picture of a pistol in the second A series (# A6836) with a later number than yours that still had the latch. While simplified, pistols of this era were still quite usable as weapons.

The Soviets invaded Radom in December of '44, so my best guess is that the year of manufacture for your pistol would be 1944.

John

gmiller0737 · #68 12-24-2015, 02:44 PM

I still regret selling My 1938 Eagle Radom even though I sold it for 10 times what I paid for it.

Tony G. · #69 01-05-2016, 11:09 PM

Hi, I just inherited one of these. I'm trying to read up and educate myself on what I have. Mine has F. B. Radom VIS Mod. 35 Pat Nr. 15557 then an eagle (all on one straight line) on the left side. The right side has the serial number. The serial number begins G450*. FB is on left grip panel and VIS on right on what appears to be brown checkered plastic. When I read about Polish vs German this appears to be from about the time the Germans took over the plant and started producing them (Grade 2). Am I correct? If not, can you either help or lead me to an url with more detailed info? I've seen several pics that are really close but no cigar. I've attached a picture of the holster also if that gives you clues. Any other clues I should look for? Thanks!

DWalt · #70 01-05-2016, 11:31 PM

I saw a Radom at the local gun show on Sunday. It appeared refinished, and had black plastic grips which could have been replicas, as they looked too new and shiny to be original. It had an $800 price tag on it. Not often you see any Radoms.

PALADIN85020 · #71 01-06-2016, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony G.

Hi, I just inherited one of these. I'm trying to read up and educate myself on what I have. Mine has F. B. Radom VIS Mod. 35 Pat Nr. 15557 then an eagle (all on one straight line) on the left side. The right side has the serial number. The serial number begins G450*. FB is on left grip panel and VIS on right on what appears to be brown checkered plastic. When I read about Polish vs German this appears to be from about the time the Germans took over the plant and started producing them (Grade 2). Am I correct? If not, can you either help or lead me to an url with more detailed info? I've seen several pics that are really close but no cigar. I've attached a picture of the holster also if that gives you clues. Any other clues I should look for? Thanks!

The lack of a takedown latch (staked roll pins substituted) marks this as a late war example, probably 1944.

John

K-framer · #72 01-06-2016, 04:05 PM

I had a roommate at university that had a P-35 Radom. This was between 1979 and 1984. We shot it often. It was a "bringback" from Europe, given to him by his father (who served in the U.S. Army during WW2). At the time, I had no idea of the history of the firearm - I only knew that it was Polish.

I remember it being quite accurate and utterly reliable. We probably put nearly a thousand rounds through that pistol, with no malfunctions whatever.

DWalt · #73 01-06-2016, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-O-Dave

Scoutwookie: I recently read a book about a young American officer in WW-II who took a piece of plexiglass off of a downed aircraft and made grips similar to yours for his issued 1911. He then placed a photo of his wife and child under the plexiglass grips and carried it that way throughout the remainder of the war. If I can find the book again (it was from the public library) I will post a reference to it. To me, I think the original or previous owner of your Radom did a very similar thing.

Regards,

Dave

Those so-called "Sweetheart" Plexiglas grips were fairly common during WWII on both semiautomatics and revolvers, and they used to be frequently seen at the gun shows of 40-50 years ago. It's been a long time since I have seen one.

Ck1981 · #74 06-11-2016, 01:31 AM

This is my Vis P35, I inherited it from my Dad who was a WWII veteran. He liberated this pistol from a Nazi solider in the Heurtgen Forrest battle. He was in the 8th infantry Division.
The pistol has the shoulder stock grove, one black FB grip on the left one wooden checkered grip on the right. WAA77 stamps, all serial numbers match. B2xxx Serial number.Original holster also. It is a great shooter I have had some range time with it.

OLDSTER · #75 07-04-2016, 07:14 AM

Great thread; educational and informational

I own this VIS 35, "D" block, circa 1943 . I would like to find a decent ( for a decent price, of course

) earlier 3 lever with or without the shoulder stock slot( hint-hint)

OLDSTER · #76 07-23-2016, 02:13 PM

When was the shoulder stock notch discontinued ? Sometime prior to the take-down lever being eliminated, so an early type II ?

PALADIN85020 · #77 07-23-2016, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIS35

When was the shoulder stock notch discontinued ? Sometime prior to the take-down lever being eliminated, so an early type II ?

Only the very early guns had the slot for a shoulder stock; few of these were made, and the stocks were almost never used. Probably eliminated circa 1936.

John

Vipervenom · #78 01-23-2017, 10:19 AM

My dad has one of these, I will try to get some pictures of it today, it has stamped markings all over it, some I recognize, and some that I can't find anything about.

Tom n · #79 08-07-2019, 07:44 PM

I just picked up H1625

malph · #80 08-07-2019, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PALADIN85020

I thought you might be interested in seeing a Polish P.35 9mm Radom pistol. At first glance it might appear homely, but the Radom is considered by many experts as one of the best pistols to come out of the WWII period. It was well made and robust.

Poland produced this pistol, which had a blend of features from the M1911 pistol and the Belgian 9mm High Power. It has a grip safety like the M1911, and the barrel is unlocked via a cam like the High Power. The lever on the slide is a decocker - it retracts the firing pin into the slide and drops the hammer on the hammer retaining plate. The lever to the rear of the grip frame is not a safety - it's a slide retaining latch to aid in disassembly. The slide release is just above the trigger on the left side. There is no manual safety; the design relies solely on a half-cock notch or the floating firing pin which allows safe carry with the hammer down. The decocker was put on the gun in response to a request by the Polish cavalry to help in operating the pistol one-handed; the other hand had to control the reins of a horse. Men on horseback wielding pistols were not a good match for German tanks, however.

When Germany overran Poland in 1939, it took over the Radom plant and began to produce the pistol for its armed forces, including the Navy, fallschirmjaegers (paratroopers), police and the SS. The native Polish workers promptly began smuggling parts of the pistol out of the plant to arm resistance forces. When the Germans found out about this practice, they executed a dozen plant workers in front of their co-workers. Later, to stop sabotage, the Germans started making barrels for the pistols in Austria, and later moved all the machinery to Austria.

This particular pistol was made in Poland in 1942, and bears the German waffenamt acceptance stamps. Later guns dispensed with the takedown latch. Earlier ones were slotted for a shoulder stock. The "VIS" on the right grip panel is Latin for "power" or "force." The "FB" on the left grip panel stands for Fabryka Brony (Weapon Factory), the Polish government manufacturing facility in Radom, Poland.

This gun is in excellent shape for being 70 years old, and could still give good service. It will fire any commonly available 9mm Luger ammo.

John

Hello. Just a few quick points. Everyone had calvary in 1935. The Poles yes but so did the Germans, US, Brits, Russians, ...

The Poles in 1939 did not deploy their calvary in saber and pistol charges against tanks. That is a myth. It did not happen. Calvary in 1939 could best be thought of as mounted infantry. Deploy or redeploy on horseback but fight dismounted as infantry. Basically horse mobile infantry.