browning sako 223 questions,pictures are posted now

[twomoons]

guys,
my lgs just got a mint sako gun.i rechecked the little indentation on the sako barrel on the right side, where the caliber is stamped and it is defianately a 223 caliber..gun has l1461y4 ,made in finland on one side,and browning arms company on the other side..the metal on gun overall is mint,just a little high edge wear.the barrel is semi heavy,not a bull barrel,but not a light barrel either the barrel is recessed also.the wood has a few tiny dents,and nicks,but the wood is so nice in color and grain,the small imperfections dont really deter from the beatifull tiger or striped wood.guys,which action is the best on these.i have zero knowledge on sako except how good they are,this action is like butter.would this be a vixen,??or riihamakiwhen i research sako,i see diffreent names for guns,like vixen,and different numbers for actions i presume.i would love to buy it and shoot it,but would love to know more of what the gun actually is.also,with this gun in mint shape,what is approximate value in todays world.i love that it shoots a 223,the barrel is semi heavy and the wood is just out of this world.thanks for any and all advice guys

[feralmerril]

It could also be the safari model. I have this one in .308. I havent kept up on prices for years on them but years ago they were just about the highest priced rifles out there of the type.

[Jim Watson]

Riihimäki is just the town where the Sako plant is located, you know, kind of like Herstal or Springfield. I am not a Sako collector but get the idea that they may have quit putting their home town on the guns or relocated so an older one with the marking is Something Special.

A Vixen is a short action Sako rifle. Your Browning .223 undoubtedly has the same action as a Vixen but FN/Browning does not use the Sako model names.

[Texas Star]

Be aware that Browning/FN used some salt-cured wood that leaves the underside of the metal parts a mess. Rust...

I don't know if this rifle was assembled in Finland or they just bought the actions there. I think the latter. Their longer action then was the FN Mauser. THIS IS A BROWNING, NOT A REAL SAKO! It just uses a Sako action or barrrelled action.

I would never buy a Browning rifle without ascertaining when it was made and the dates that the affected wood was used. You'll need to get that info or pull the barrelled action and check for rust before buying. Doing that may not thrill the dealer...

If this rifle hasn't been affected, it should be a delight to own. Probably an ideal coyote gun, useable in some states on deer, but use the right bullets for that. It's basically a varmint gun. I'm guessing that you know the limits of a .223.

Alas, I don't know where to learn when the bad wood was used. Maybe someone else will know.

Keep in mind that this rifle is a Browning, if marked as such. It is NOT a Sako; they just used Sako actions for the shorter cartridges. I don't think the actual Sako factory ever used any salt-cured wood, and actual Sako products are not affected by that issue.

The short action was used for Sako Vixen rifles, made and sold under their own brand. Merrill's .308 uses the action that Sako used on their Forester items, in .243 and .308. It is a medium length action. Sako used rails on the action to mount 'scopes, like some CZ and Ruger products. I think Sako actions used by Browning/FN may have had those rails milled off to use conventional 'scope mounts. Not sure. It's been awhile since I saw one. The long Sako action was the L-61 or Finnbear, called that on Sako's own rifles. I had one in .270, and it was VERY accurate, as real Sakos tend to be.

[twomoons]

GUYS,THANKS A MILLION.i am going to get some pictures today and post them.i found out its a l461 223 with a medium weight to varmeint barrel weight recessed barrel..gosh the action is just like butter.

[twomoons]

[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/twomoons4/040-2.jpg[/IMG

[feralmerril]

Looks like my browning safari that I posted. Mine was a $800 rifle back in the late 70s and early 80s.

[feralmerril]

I just checked my records. I bought mine in 1974. It had the prettest wood. The first time I took it to the range the stock broke at the grip. I took it to a gunsmith friend and you could see where the company had glued a chip in a crack as the stock was very high grade looking. My smith friend said he could make it look new. I said no, and sent the gun back to browning and they replaced the stock-no charge. However the wood looks beautiful, yet doesnt approach the color and grain of the first stock. I cant complain too much, I got the gun on a huge sale for 1/2 price. As I recall they were running over $800 at the time and I got mine for about $400. It`s a fine rifle but I have shot it very little as it seems I always grab a beater and without thinking about it, it`s been a safe queen all this time! I have heard the same story texas star tells. I dont know what years it was a problem, but I have no rust.
I googeled the salt cured stocks and found this: It seems it was a problem from 1966 to 1971. Read several reports that claimed that.
Browning salt-cured wood on shotguns! - THR

[twomoons]

ferril,and everyone else,thanks a bunch for all your advice.ferril is the 223 caliber a rare caliber in this action and browning wood

[big brother]

That is a beautiful rifle. I do have a suggestion before you go shooting. Determine the twist rate on tha barrel. I have run into several similar rifles with very slow twist barrels. One in 14 for the most part. You need to know that before you buy ammunition. Bullet weight makes a big difference in these rifles. Don't car who made it; it is pretty!

[AKtinman]

These folks could probably answer your questions:

Sako Collectors Club - The Front Page

Nice rifle!

[twomoons]

thanks ak,you guys are great.this gun will look even better dolled up and cleaned up with a leupold 2 x7 scope.really excited.this woill be a cheap to shoot tack driver.,and thanks evreyone for all of your help

[M29since14]

I am a little curious about Texas Star's comment that Browning produced the rifle using a Sako barrelled-action, or just a Sako action. Looking at the stock of that rifle, it certainly appears to have distinctive Sako characteristics that I am used to seeing on original factory rifles from that period, though the wood itself is uncharacteristic. One does not usually see exceptionally figured wood on Sakos, but that is no standard Sako either, as is evidenced by the engraving.

I am just guessing but I wonder if that rifle was not entirely made at Sako and just branded for Browning sales? Possibly Browning specified, or even supplied, the higher-grade wood used for the stock?

In any case, the pattern is distinctly Sako-ish to my eye. I will be interested to see what more knowledgeable Sako owners have to say. That is a great rifle, if the barrel is still in good shape, and, if it were mine, I would think it definitely deserves a little sprucing up - including a good telescope. Nice catch. I would be thrilled to have it.

[Texas Star]

Originally Posted by M29since14

I am a little curious about Texas Star's comment that Browning produced the rifle using a Sako barrelled-action, or just a Sako action. Looking at the stock of that rifle, it certainly appears to have distinctive Sako characteristics that I am used to seeing on original factory rifles from that period, though the wood itself is uncharacteristic. One does not usually see exceptionally figured wood on Sakos, but that is no standard Sako either, as is evidenced by the engraving.

I am just guessing but I wonder if that rifle was not entirely made at Sako and just branded for Browning sales? Possibly Browning specified, or even supplied, the higher-grade wood used for the stock?

In any case, the pattern is distinctly Sako-ish to my eye. I will be interested to see what more knowledgeable Sako owners have to say. That is a great rifle, if the barrel is still in good shape, and, if it were mine, I would think it definitely deserves a little sprucing up - including a good telescope. Nice catch. I would be thrilled to have it.

The stock, the barrel contour, and engraving are all distinctive to Brownings of that era, made at FN. The cheekpiece is not as slabby as on real Sakos. The checkering is also not like Sako used. The forearm is also not square enough to be the usual Sako style. They could have made the rifles to Browning specs, of course.

You can call Browning and ask, but where their guns are made may be a trade secret. Their rifles then that used a long action were made on FN Mausers. Short and medium actions were Sako-made.

A couple of other firms also used Sako actions. Alas, I can't recall their names. Of course, the Sako actions and barrelled actions are sold seperately, or were then , and many have been used on custom rifles, too.

It is possible that the rifle will be marked, "Made in Belgium". That would be a final answer.

[410bore]

I have a Browning Safari Bolt Action in .243....absolutely mint rifle with a lyman all american scope mounted...

[Texas Star]

Originally Posted by 410bore

I have a Browning Safari Bolt Action in .243....absolutely mint rifle with a lyman all american scope mounted...

Sounds like a nice rifle. Does it look like the one that FerrilMerrill posted? Do the markings show country of origin, or just the Finland markings on the Finnish parts?

[M29since14]

Thanks for your thought on that, T-Star. The more I think about it, the more I feel inclined to agree with you. Certainly country of origin should be marked somewhere and I think you are probably correct. I would expect it to be Belgium.

Whatever the case, it is a nice rifle and certainly would be one I would enjoy owning. I suppose it is from the '60s. Anyone have an idea of about when?

[Jim Watson]

A couple of other firms also used Sako actions. Alas, I can't recall their names.

Marlin and H&R that I know of offhand.
I think the Coltmaster was a Sako.
There may have been some J.C. Higgins Sakos, I know they used FN long actions.

[TLflag]

Suojeluskuntain Ase-ja Konepaja Osakeyhtio (Sako) was founded in 1921 and celebrated 90 years in business last year. All of the pre-war production was mostly war related, first the Bolshevik revolution and then World War II. Post-war was the beginning of the Sako today. After many problems such as politics, machinery, capital, etc. and diversification they produced the L46 rifle. This early production was named after the town they were located in, Riihimaki. Clip fed and first offered to the American market by Firearms International in 218 Bee and .22 Hornet. The Vixen (short action) Forester (medium action) and Finnbear (long action) soon evolved.Your rifle appears to be the Browning Safari which was a Sako barrel and action stocked by Browning and so named. I have 3 of those.Several other makers have also used these barreled action as noted above by others. I have a H&R Ultra-Wildcat in 17-223 with a Sako barrel and action. They are very well made and noted for their smooth action and accuracy. You will LOVE your new rifle, I have 10. In 2000, Beretta Holding acquired both Sako and Tikka.

[twomoons]

guys on the right side of barrel is marked made in finland under the "caliber 223 only" is stamped in the small indentation on the barrel.on the left side of barrel is marked browning arms company