...do you consider the best for black bear out to 100 yards - a .30-06 or a .300 magnum? By best I mean - which would generally pin a bear to the ground quicker taking into account that both bullets are well placed and in the same spot? I'm sure there are many other good calibers out there to do the job but I'd like to hear forum opinions on these two. Thanks!

At 100 yds with premium ammunition at 175-225 grains I don't think you will ever see the difference. Also 30-06 is almost universally available.

I think the 30-06 with 180 or the 220 Core Loct Remington ammo will be more than adequate.

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War Eagle! '10 BCS & '13 SEC

The bear would never know the difference.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

I've used the 30-06 with 180 psp bullets for many years in the more open areas. In the tighter woods/brush i use a marlin 444s with 265gr sp bullets plus its a great brush gun. Back in 94 i wanted to bump up from the '06 so i could do a fly in special hunt someday and i picked up a remington 700 in 338win mag. with 225gr psp bullets after looking at all the ballastics at that time. The 338win mag has 4,000ft lbs @ muzzle and 2,700ft lbs @ 200yds thats the muzzle energy of an '06 @ 200yds. Its kind of big for blackbears but it does kill them dead on the spot.

My next move is to reload my 444 marlin with 270gr & 300gr bullets to teat them out.

My only close call that we ever had was in the thick pines were i probably shouldn't of been that very thick stuff anyway. What ever we jumped was going the other way when we spooked it. I been tracking bears with 13" paws in a few different places in the mountains. They say that bears don't get that big. I like having enough gun to handle any shot/game now. We hunted bears since '73 and the hunt is the most fun. More fun than the kill.

Kind of shocking to me. Ya know, about 15 years ago (it'll be 15 come January) I was of the warped and distorted opinion that every one should have a .300 maggie. Just in case. And I still have no idea why, but then I owned a .458 for a while, just in case the fat chick that lived next to us back then went rogue and started rampaging through our garden. Anyway, it was fun to shoot, just like the .300. I went all the way and bought the Weatherby version in .30-378 caliber. If you're going to go big, might as well do it right. I bought it for myself for my 50th Bday. Figured no one else was ever going to buy me a righteous gun in a suitable caliber.

But for critters around here, I can't think of any reason to use a .300 of any flavor. I am aware of a guy who goes deer hunting with his .375 H&H. I have no idea why, guess he wants to make sure he'll get adequate penetration on Bambi. Bears may be bigger and tougher, but I've not seen a black bear that a .30-06 would do for nicely. At least if you do your job, and if you don't, caliber won't make a difference.

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Dick Burg

I use 300 mag for everything..

At 100 yards, I don't think there would be any difference between a 30-06, 30-30, 308, 30-40, or 300 mag.

The best energy to trajectory values for the 30-06 are 165/ 168gr. bullets.

And yes, a 400lb black bear will DRT when he meets a well built 165gr bullet.
At 100 yds, the 180 gr does have more hit power, but it's not much better. By 200 yds, the difference is negligible. By 300, the 165 is taking over because it is not losing speed as badly, and is dropping less.
A 200 gr. bullet in 30-06 lobs about like a football beyond 100 yds. While it is good at 50-100 without changing the scope up, to take a 100yd zero rifle and then attempt a 250 will need some hold over as you are looking at a lot of drop.
The 300 magnum? Which one??!! (They are all very agressive bullets) I had a Weatherby 300 magnum. I'd imagine that it would not even break a sweat punching clean thru a 400 lb bear with a 180gr bullet. It dropped an elk with a thru and thru- BOTH shoulders at 150 yds with a 185 gr nosler partition. I will also say, it nearly hit just as hard on the buttpad side of the rifle, as well.
Not a really pleasurable rifle to shoot. Nice, good shooting, and beautiful. But not a fun rifle.

Dead`s dead!

Thirty-aught-six.
Case closed.


But that's just my opinion.

+1 on the 338. I know he said two calibers. But the 338 is known as the best caliber for North America.

Of the two, I'd stick with 30-06.

"The 30/06 works. Period."
------ Finn Aagaard

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Thanks for the response guys - very much appreciated!

I shoot a .300 H&H but mostly for it's range. I can reach out another 150 yards when shooting from hollar-to-hollar in West Virginia where we hunt. But for Black Bear at 100 yards I'd use a .30-06.

I have a 1949 .30 Gov't 06 Winchester that would do the job perfectly.

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Go big or stay home

I had an uncle that killed moose every year in Canada with a .30-06. If it can do that, I think it will do ok on bears.

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Vaya con Dios

The 300 WM was Winchester's design to replicate the 300 H&H magnum in a 30-06 length receiver. . The 4 original cartridges, from the parent case, were the first generation of Winchester short magnums. . The advancement in powder now allows the current 30-06 loadings, in 180 gr. bullet, to near replicate the original 300 H&H loading of some 80 plus years ago. . A well placed premium 180gr. 30-06 bullet, at 100 yds, should drop a black bear with relative ease. . The 300 WM will be at an advantage with heavier bullets, 200 gr, 220 gr.

Rod

They'll both work. I'd sure rather pay for 30-06 ammo!

Can't say. The only bear I ever killed was with a .50 caliber muzzle loader. But when I decided to go to Africa for plains game I wanted to step up from my .280 Rem. I checked the ballistics on the .300 Win and 06 and decided that they were very close and were not a big enough step from the .280 so I went with a .338 Win. I know the .300 and 06 would have taken anything I wanted to shoot but it seemed like duplication of each other and of what I already had. I don't think you'll regret the 30-06. Its killed everything on this continent.

I can pull an honest 3,000 fps out of my 26" .300 H&H with 180 grain bullets with ease. My chrono has verified that. Still a little tough to do that with a .30-'06. But I admit the gap between the two cartridges is not much more than 10-15%.

Drew, that's the first post I've ever read of yours that doesn't make sense. 10% of 3000 is 300 and 15% is 450 fps. That puts it down solidly in .30-30 range. All 300s aren't born equal, with the .300 H&H being the runt and the various large case versions being the top. In the middle you get some pretty stout cartridges like the .300 Weatherby. Its not difficult to get 3500+ out of factory loads in the .30-378.

The other side of all this is if you reload, you can push any of the .300s down to .30-06 levels. No difference in cost. Well, maybe the brass, but even the expensive brass lasts a long time when you're not up at the high pressure levels. I guess that means that if you want to lug your long barrel magnum over hill and dale, you can still use it as a .30-06 equivalent. Makes sense if you've got a premium scope on the magnum. Or you just like self abuse.

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Dick Burg

Dick,

Our 180 grain .30-06 loads seem to chronograph in the 2,750 fps range out of the shorter field guns we hunt with. I was adding 10% to that number and getting to just a little over 3,000 fps. from my handload. This velocity closely approximates the Remington "Core-Lokt" factory load for the .300 H&H and this is what I hunt with. It's the most accurate in my rifles.

If I really want that extra 15% or more over the .30-'06, I can push the .300 H&H to 3,300 fps with a stiff charge of IMR-4064 under a 180 Speer HOTCORE Spitzer, but it's rough to shoot, tough on the rifle and brass.

We go to West Virginia for a Meat Hunt most every year and I always take the high watch with the .300 H&H. When we go to work we shoot alot of deer. This is one day's take for our party of four.



At 80 yards, this little Button Buck didn't have a chance, even with the 3,000 fps load.



Here's my boy DJ (also a member here) with my favorite .300 H&H, a Remington 721 with a Leupold 4x-12x. He took a 3 point meat buck out of his hooves on the hill in the background from where he is standing. The range is just about 600 yards. DJ is a practiced shot, conditions were perfect and the .300 performed flawlessly. Was the finest act of marksmanship I have ever personally witnessed.



A couple of years ago for Father's Day, the boys put a set of Warne QD rings on the 721 and set me up with an extra Leupold 1.5X-5X that I can use while walkin' 'round and when I get up on my 'perch' where I can see a half a mile, I slip the 4X-12X back on. This seems to work pretty well and the Warne's hold the zero nicely.

Here's the "Long Gun" with the 1.5x-5.0 in place, waiting for the morning fog to burn off.

.

Drew

Either round same spot will leave two holes for the air to come out. The 06 will do it with less powder and recoil but it will do it!

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Endeavor to persevere

I agree the 300 H&H will pull an honest 300 fps with 180 gr. bullet. . The two loadings I favor are 68 gr. of 4350 with BT spitzer @ 3086 fps. or 70 gr of 4831 @ 3039. . Compare this to 300 WM or even 300 WBM and the 300 H&H powder efficiency becomes apparent.

Craig Boddington came up with quite a 300 H&H loading for the 150 gr. bullet . . 74 gr. 4350 pushing 150 gr Sierra that chronographed at 3400 fps. . The H&H long tapered case is perfect.

The favorite one of my pre-64 M70's

Damn. That's a beauty!

I have a Post '64 Model 70 Classic in .300 H&H with a very high figured stock. It's nice to look at, but the old 721 see a lot more field time by far.

The load that shoots the best out of my Remington is the 68.0 Grains of IMR-4350 as you mentioned. I load it with Federal 210 Benchrest Primers and Speer's 180 grain HOTCORE plain based spitzers. This is the load my son used to kill the West Virginia deer at extended range.

I've scribbled down those other two loads to try. Thanks!

Drew

if you feel you need more than a 30-06, just go all in and pick up a 50bmg.

What Finn said. Been an Aagaard fan forever...RIP.