UK military switching to Glock pistols

Arik · Jan 11, 2013

Rule3 said:
The new Marine Contract ditching the Beretta and going back to the 1911, Wake up and smell the Gumbo

Well they arnt actually "Marine contracts". The 1911s are going to specops units. Your avg Marine is still going with a M9

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Abbynormal · Jan 11, 2013

I have a feeling that they will regret this decision

Kanewpadle · Jan 11, 2013

I feel bad for them.

CAJUNLAWYER · Jan 12, 2013

Rule3 said:
The new Marine Contract ditching the Beretta and going back to the 1911, Wake up and smell the Gumbo

Ummmmmmmmmmm............Gumbo!!!!!!

Faulkner · Jan 12, 2013

Abbynormal said:
I have a feeling that they will regret this decision

I disagree. I have experiance carrying a Glock as a duty sidearm for over 12 years and I think it's an excellent decision. I've also carried a Beretta M92/M9 as a duty sidearm and have a lot of experiance with 1911's. The M9 is an example of the government supplying our troops with equipment provided by the low bidder, it's a satisfactory piece, but that's all.

As for the 1911, these days it's a shooters gun and I love shooting mine. But a Glock ( or S&W M&P, or XD, etc.) are a lot easier to maintain, less expensive to manufacture, and I would argue easier to train the users how to use.

A10 · Jan 12, 2013

I have had many Glocks in the past and even the little ones were reliable and accurate. And you don't have to worry about beating up a nice gun when you are using it.

There was a time when buying a 1911 meant buying a Colt, and quite honestly in my experience they weren't very darned reliable. Back in the 80s you had to tune and polish them to get them to feed anything much other than hardball. Ejection could be erratic, and the sights were tiny (the Gold Cup being the exception).

MSgt G · Jan 12, 2013

The article says it holds 17 rounds! Oh, my! High capacity magazines! (sarcasm)

Badkarma 1 · Jan 12, 2013

Interesting! Considering the fact that the SAS went to both the SIG P226 and 228 back during the North Ireland fracas.
Guess everybody wants a disposable pistol these days. Dale

mkk41 · Jan 12, 2013

Don't think the Glock was proven back during the early 80s JSSAP trials that led to the adoption of the Beretta.

Besides , the Glock has none of the required features set forth in the guidelines. Some of which were ; DA/SA trigger action , exposed hammer , hammer dropping external safety , ambidex or switchable mag release button , lanyard ring , and others.

Pretty sure the frame had to be made of metal too.

The Sig actually won the trials for accuracy and reliability , but the Beretta beat it on price.

Texas Star · Jan 12, 2013

mkk41 said:
Don't think the Glock was proven back during the early 80s JSSAP trials that led to the adoption of the Beretta.

Besides , the Glock has none of the required features set forth in the guidelines. Some of which were ; DA/SA trigger action , exposed hammer , hammer dropping external safety , ambidex or switchable mag release button , lanyard ring , and others.

Pretty sure the frame had to be made of metal too.

The Sig actually won the trials for accuracy and reliability , but the Beretta beat it on price.

Can you prove this? I understand that both pistols passed all trials, and only then was price the issue. Beretta locking blocks have to be occasionally changed; SIG's rusted and early ones have had slide rails crack under heavy use. No perfect choice. But if you abuse it enough, even a Ruger GP-100 can fail. I saw one recently that an idiot had fired thousands of times with very hot handloads with 125 grain bullets. The barrel throat was heavily eroded and the forcing cone finally cracked.

My son used M-9's in sandy Iraq (three tours and one as a "contractor"), and as long as they were maintained properly and had good magazines, his never failed. They were combat-effective with 9mm NATO ball, but he wished for JHP ammo for more certain one-shot stops. A few times, he had to fire added shots to finish an enemy. And he is an excellent shot. Having a pistol saved his life, several times. He loves SIGs, but also likes the Beretta. He is also extremely fond of the Colt .45 auto. But the Beretta and the SIG are, across the board, more reliable. And military shooting scores were higher with the Beretta, which kicks less than the .45, a major point with gun-shy average soldiers. I concede that the Beretta needs big hands, but in theory, women and others with small hands can draw a SIG-P-228/M-11 from Supply. CID, OSI, and NCIS agents and some Naval aircrew also use the SIG.

StatesRightist · Jan 12, 2013

Faulkner said:
I disagree. I have experiance carrying a Glock as a duty sidearm for over 12 years and I think it's an excellent decision. I've also carried a Beretta M92/M9 as a duty sidearm and have a lot of experiance with 1911's. The M9 is an example of the government supplying our troops with equipment provided by the low bidder, it's a satisfactory piece, but that's all.

As for the 1911, these days it's a shooters gun and I love shooting mine. But a Glock ( or S&W M&P, or XD, etc.) are a lot easier to maintain, less expensive to manufacture, and I would argue easier to train the users how to use.

Exactly, I'm a S&W guy and own 10 to 1 S&W to Glock, but the Glock is a fantastic gun for the role it fills for me and the role they will use for. Even an idiot can clean it, it uber reliable, holds a lot of rounds, easy to train and I bet they get them for less than or around $300-$350 a copy. You are not going to get that from a 1911.

I love 1911's, but they need a lot more care than a Glock, granted they are more accurate, but not better for the role as a grunt sidearm than the Glock. Spec OPS and SRT's are a different animal.

JMO

Terry C · Jan 12, 2013

Can't we all just get along?

Texas Star · Jan 12, 2013

Terry C said:
Can't we all just get along?

How does that M-66 handle for you in humid weather when firing full .357 ammo? I wonder if it's about as slippery as a greased eel.

Are those Jay Scott black "pearl" grips?

Out West · Jan 12, 2013

Sounds like a very practical choice. Cheap to purchase, cheap to maintain and darn near indestructible - all that without giving up a thing by way of reliability or accuracy.

Out
West

Terry C · Jan 12, 2013

Texas Star said:
How does that M-66 handle for you in humid weather when firing full .357 ammo? I wonder if it's about as slippery as a greased eel.

Are those Jay Scott black "pearl" grips?

They're Ajax. And they are not that bad actually, for a few shots anyway. The T-grip helps a lot. The pearls are more for casual OC (GA license allows open or concealed carry), but I can and would not hesitate to employ it that way if necessary.

When it goes out in the field or to the range though, it's generally wearing its work boots (Rogers grips) . . .

I also have service and PC magnas for her, smooth and checkered target stocks, and a couple of flavors of rubber. Grips are like shoes, every girl needs a closet full.

crofoot629 · Jan 12, 2013

Glocks are much easier to maintain by unit level armors than 1911’s or HP’s.

The ease and level of maintenance don't even compare.

Emory
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hard To Kill

sw282 · Jan 13, 2013

l read somewhere years ago after Glock opened the plant in Georgia a pistol cost them $67 to make ...roughly equal in price to a Smith & Wesson two piece box,but not near as desirable

Arik · Jan 13, 2013

StatesRightist said:
Exactly, I'm a S&W guy and own 10 to 1 S&W to Glock, but the Glock is a fantastic gun for the role it fills for me and the role they will use for. Even an idiot can clean it, it uber reliable, holds a lot of rounds, easy to train and I bet they get them for less than or around $300-$350 a copy. You are not going to get that from a 1911.

I love 1911's, but they need a lot more care than a Glock, granted they are more accurate, but not better for the role as a grunt sidearm than the Glock. Spec OPS and SRT's are a different animal.

JMO

I said something along the same lines on another forum and got called a pervert! :what:

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mkk41 · Jan 13, 2013

Texas Star said:
Can you prove this? I understand that both pistols passed all trials, and only then was price the issue. Beretta locking blocks have to be occasionally changed; SIG's rusted and early ones have had slide rails crack under heavy use. No perfect choice.

You are correct , both passed , which is what I should have said. The Beretta won on final price.

There was also a timeframe problem for building a US factory and meeting initial deliveries for SIG , IIRC. Beretta had a US factory in process , due to winning initial trials , which SIG did NOT enter. And they weren't going to commit to a US factory unless they got the contract.

policerevolvercollector · Jan 13, 2013

I believe that the British military has been carrying Sig P226 9mms for a while.They have another designation for it though.Is that correct? I know that the armed police units use the Glock 17 including those that protect the Royals & the Prime Minister.

UK military switching to Glock pistols

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