Ithaca Double Shotgun Info Needed

I like old stuff, guns expecially. While making my LGS rounds friday I found a decent Ithaca 12 gauge double that just spoke to me. I know nothing about the value of such a shotgun. No pictures, just a description. Blueing on barrels, very nice hardly any wear. Frame is mostly silver, I assume case hardening but colors faded? Barrels lock up like a vault. Bores excellent. Some factory scroll ingraving on frame with the word Ithaca in the scroll work. Probably just a field grade gun. Heres the bad, someone refinished the wood with some type of varnish and the wood was not removed. There is some varnish on the metal, but I'm sure I can remove it. Also the checkering has been compromised with sandpaper. It'd still there but "flat".

It's priced at $399. If its not a consignment gun I could probably get it for $350. Is it worth it? I really don't need it. I just like old guns and double shotguns have a warm spot in my heart.

This is not a newer Ithaca, its an old shotgun.

The gun does not sound over priced, it is hammerless right? I never owned a s/s Ithaca only an o/u made in Japan. Elmer Keith was very high on the old Ithacas in his book "Shotguns by Keith" All I know is when they talk about a "Nid" model it means new ithaca double. If you get it you can rework the checkering with a small triangle 3 sided file just take your time and you can make it look right. Jeff

I have a 12 and a 20. The 20 is nice, and the 12 is rough. I paid more than that for each of them. Short of a Parker, or 21 Winchester, I believe the Ithaca doubles are among the best quality American shotguns.

I'd jump on it.

Hard to tell which older model Ithaca it might be, but I'd chance a guess at a Lewis Model with it's scroll on the sides.
Best way to ID the older ones is by ser#. The Crass, Lewis, Minier (sp?) and even the Flues look enough alike to confuse alot of collectors,,especially the first 3.

Any of these in a 12ga, w/o much case color and refinished wood is not much of a buy at $350 I'm afraid. They are a hard sell in the Field grades unless in excellent condition or priced lower.

High grade guns, they made them up to grade 6 & 7 will create interest of course.

(The Ithaca 'Baker Model' preceded these, but AFAIK was only made as a hammer gun.)

The Crass, Lewis, and Minier are not the strongest actions. The last of them was the Minier,,only made for a couple years 1906/08 IIRC.
Some will be marked 'Nitro Proofed' on the bbl lug.
But what was a nitro/smokeless proof then is not what is loaded now. Take it real easy on them if you do shoot them. Any of these will be short chambered. They were made in damascus as well. Many damascus tubes have been reblued over and it's hard to tell they are in fact damascus.

The Flues was made from '08 to 1926. They still offered damascus in them.
They can handle a bit more than the earlier models but not that much. Same 'nitro proof' thing as the earlier ones.
Small bore light weight Flues are known to crack frames with modern loads. The 12's holdup OK with loads that it's designed for.

The last of the Ithaca SxS was the NID (New Ithaca Double). Strongest of the bunch. Made right up to and for a few years after WW2.
Even a 12ga NID worn colors and refinished wood would probably sit for a while at $350. A few years back it'd be sold in a minute.
Double guns are slow sellers right now.
Just past on a NID 16ga. $375 w/an aftermarket pad. About 75% condition.
Guns w/single triggers and ejectors have buyers. But double triggers and extractor 12ga guns just seem to sit unless priced cheap.

They're just not selling right now unless they're high condition or high grade.

Here's a link to (hopefully) the Ithaca SxS ser#'s. You can quickly find out which Model it is and do some more searching on that particular one. I don't see that they even list the Miniers they made so few I guess.
Double Barreled Shotguns, High Grade Shotgun dates of production doublegunshop.com - shotgun gun firearm SxS Side-by-side

NID's are easy to ID,,they are all in the 400,000 range with their Magnum frame guns in the 500,000 range.

Are you sure that it's safe with modern loads and that the chambers take 2.75-inch shells?

I'm guessing that you know to avoid Damascus barrels and know how to detect them? And that you don't plan to use steel shot?

Do you have the skills for a good refinish job on the wood? Can you spare the time for that and will your wife, if married, put up with the mess and the smell of refinishing?
Many don't like the smell of Hoppe's No. 9 when you're just cleaning guns!

I'd put the money into a modern Ithaca made in Japan or a Browning B-SS. Or a Beretta double.

Truly, double shotguns are playthings of the wealthy. The rest of us need pumps and autos.

If I had just $350 to buy a shotgun, I'd look really hard for an older Remington M-870 pump that had seen little use. Or an Ithaca M-37. I think your money would be better spent. I probably would not buy a new Remington of ANY model.

My dad shot competition skeet and trap with an Ithaca over and under make by SKB (japan) for many years. The guns were beautiful and he never had any problem after thousands of rounds.

Thanks for the info. I'll check out that site and get the serial no. if I decide to take another look at it.

I've refinished a lot of stocks over the years with truoil, but have never tried to recut checkering.

It's not damascus, I know how to tell. I have a chamber length gauge so checking that is no problem. Actually I also have a chamber reamer and forceing cone cutter.

I don't need another shotgun. I have a couple modern pumps, a bunch of Winchester 97's [told ya I like the old stuff], and both grandfathers doubles, a 16 gauge Springfield and a 12 gauge U.S. Arms [Crescent].

I just like old doubles for some reason. If I bought it I would shoot it for sure, but only with my light reloads.

Guess I'll have to think about it, probably won't be anyone busting down the shops door to buy it soon.

Thanks again.

What was the manufacturer of the guns Wells Fargo coach riders used?

Great resource is shotgunworld.com. One of the best!

Usually just putting a gentle & extended taper to the existing forcing cone w/o extending the chamber itself on short chambered 12's is seen as a better fix.
Small bores too, but some of those are built so light in bbl wall thickness up by the breech that even this alteration is somewhat suspect at times.
Do some measuring and calculation before cutting.

BP and Bulk Smokeless load 12ga shotshells of the time (late 1800/into the early 1900's) were service pressure around 6500psi.
Reloading with specific componenets can easily put you there and even lower and yes even the same pressure curve as the BP loads.
Over the counter 12ga ammo will be in the 11,000 to 12,000 psi range unless specificly loaded for the 'old ones'.
Ammo makers want to be sure it operates the semi autos out there and breaks targets/kills game when used in modern firearms.
Bad ammo = complaints= loss of market.
They are not concerned with the old guns and they say so on each box.


Leaveing as much bbl wall material as possible in these oldies is the best way to look at it and with a extended forcing cone, it does just that.
The abrupt short forcing cones of the shorter paper shell and cardboard/fiber wad era when these were made can be simply altered this way.
The modern thin plastic shells unfold easily in the new gentle tapered cone and the plastic wads slide easily thru them.
Just my thoughts.

I like and use the old ones too!

Ithica was still selling S/S shotguns in the 1970s. I bought one while in Germany, I think it was in 1972. The gun was marked Ithica and made for Ithica by Miroku in Japan. Miroku was also making shotguns for Browning. I shot the heck out of the that Ithica both for hunting and in DJV competition. It held up well, later had to sell it during a divorce. I almost cried.