I was at an antique show recently and spotted a Winchester 1873 -- "The Gun that Won the West" -- famously the topic of Jimmy Stewart movie by the same name. I know there is a mystique to this rifle and it's collectible but inasmuch as millions have been made -- and are still being made as repros -- I don't understand why they command such high prices.

The one shown below was priced at $1,750, firm, and was made in 1889, according to the SN. Bore was decent, minor pitting and the stock looked good. Only flaw was a missing spring holding in the dust cover.

I didn't really want it that much, given the high price and the now out-of-date caliber -- .38/40 -- plus the fact that it likely would be rarely shot and wind up in the safe.

By contrast, I bought a 1932 Tula-stamped Mosin-Nagant 91/30 hex receiver, matching serials, which included the bayonet, oil can, sling, cleaning rod, tool and 80 rounds of 7.62x54R ammo for the princely sum of 150 bucks out the door. (photo below-revised because I uploaded the wrong photo earlier) It's a fun gun to shoot and works every time. I realize Mosins are everywhere, but so are Winchesters. So, why would I spent 12 times more for a rifle that is not only about as old, is much less functional and also widely available?

I read recently that a pristine Winnie 73 sold at auction for $35,000!

What am I missing?

[QUOTE=Whitens Moss;138035392]I was at an antique show recently and spotted a Winchester 1873 -- "The Gun that Won the West" -- famously the topic of Jimmy Stewart movie by the same name. I know there is a mystique to this rifle and it's collectible but inasmuch as millions have been made -- and are still being made as repros -- I don't understand why they command such high prices.

The one shown below was priced at $1,750, firm, and was made in 1889, according to the SN. Bore was decent, minor pitting and the stock looked good. Only flaw was a missing spring holding in the dust cover.

I didn't really want it that much, given the high price and the now out-of-date caliber -- .38/40 -- plus the fact that it likely would be rarely shot and wind up in the safe.

By contrast, I bought a 1932 Mosin-Nagant 91/30, which included the bayonet, oil can, sling, cleaning rod, tool and 80 rounds of 7.62x54R ammo for the princely sum of 150 bucks out the door. (photo below) It's a fun gun to shoot and works every time. I realize Mosins are everywhere, but so are Winchesters. So, why would I spent 12 times more for a rifle that is not only about as old, is much less functional and widely available?

I read recently that a pristine Winnie 73 sold at auction for $35,000!

What am I missing?

QUOTE]







Spending money on Winchesters..

All kidding aside there are more than enough people that want to have few Winchesters or even a decent collection so enjoy what you want. In the shooting field there are hundreds if not thousands of things to collect/appreciate. You do what makes you feel good.

FWIW I do have a couple collectable Winchesters a 1898 94 32-40 and a 94 saddle ring carbine (30WCF) from around 1915 and I still shoot them on occasion.

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Not trying to be flip here, but old expression comes to mind, 'if I have to explain it to you, you probably won't understand...' comes to mind. To me, they are beautiful, well made guns with a whole lot of history behind them. There's a lot of different models that each have their own unique strengths/stories behind what makes them so compelling, but overall it's hard to beat a classic Winchester. There are a lot of people that feel the same way, and that is why they cost so much money...

That being said, I really like your Mosin Nagant and agree that they are a great value. At the end of the day, it's different strokes for different strokes.

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NRA Life Member

Many aspects. First the historic appeal. They were the gun that won the west, most our ancestors hunted with them and depended on them for protection. They were dependable. They had sexy lines fine finish and better wood. They had the better reputation. They were the first POPULAR repeater. The texas rangers, arizona rangers most our romantic western figures carried them. My first centerfire rifle was a model 94 30-30 that I bought new when I was a 16 year old in 1957. Still have it and a arm full of others. I shot more deer with it than my other longg uns combined.

Ever shoot an antique Winchester? Probably not, or else you wouldn't be asking the question.

It is like asking "Why should I buy a vintage big block Chevelle when I can drive a Prius much more economically?"

Given the fact that most of the folks who populate this forum are representative of a generation that grew up with a Winchester rifle as an iconic weapon, on both the big and little screens, might have a bit to do with it.

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LEX ET ORDO

The swath cut, by Winchester, through American history, is mighty wide my friend. A lot of non gun owners know this. People will always want to own something that changed the course of this country and the cost to do so will only go up.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

Good deal on the Mosin. Do I see screws on the sling escutcheons?

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LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

Because Winchesters are cool! Mosin-Nagants, not so much.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

I once owned a Mosin-Nagant carbine. I dont recall if I shot it but recall it looking strong and very crude. That seems a trademark of russian designs.
The wood looked like a D grade telephone pole. Now if I was raised in Russia and had russian heros and had some spare ruble`s and coud actually find one I might want to collect it too. I gave mine to a young neighbor friend. He bought a stock, fitted it up and it looked pretty good.

What is the appeal of a Mosin-Nagant? Those were made by the millions I'm told. Why are older Smiths getting expensive? What's the appeal over the new ones? Smith made millions of them. You can find them every where.

By the way, Winchester has made millions of the Mod. 94 more than all the other models of lever action combined, if memory serves.

P.S. 38/40 may be obsolete but it's still a good cartridge and fun in a lever rifle.

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Quando omni flunkus moritati.

Because there's never been a movie called "Mosin 91/30"?


Feril, nice 1895 carbine.

Like that? Here is a picture of it. I understand it came from arizona. Could have been a Arizona or Texas rangers gun as they were issued to both. I have owned it for about 45 years. When I bought it the rear sight was missing. A friend gave me a buffington sight and put it on for me. He didnt have to drill. However the wood hand guard wont fit over it. I still have it. Its in 30 army. (30/40). Its accurate and I load for it.

I don't have any "old" Winchesters(other than ~1910 97 model), but would love to have a couple of them.

As much as I enjoy my Mosin, there's just something special about an old Winchester, and there's really no comparison between it and a Mosin.

And, I'm still looking for the "right" 92 model in 32-20.

The old Winchesters are always going to part of American history. They command great admiration....and rightly so.
My Winchester 1892 in 44-40, birth date 1904,
and in 98% original condition.

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I honestly believe that the only ones who don't understand and appreciate classic Winchester rifles are Illegal aliens.
Jim

The Winchester rifles are not only historical relics, they are functional pieces of art created during a time when most workers took great pride in their skills and manufacturers genuinely cared about their reputations.

Aside from that the older Winchesters are exceptionally good investments, with market values rising well in excess of the rate of inflation for the past 5 decades or more. I have Winchester rifles that I purchased 40 years and more ago and they are all worth several times what I paid for them.

I have several 19th Century Winchester rifles including single shot and lever actions in calibers from .22 short to .45-90 and several others in between. They are all fully functional and still as capable of performing the intended functions just as well as when new. Overall fit, finish, and function far exceed anything available in modern production firearms.

There is something very satisfying about eating a meal that was taken with a rifle that is 100 to 140 years old! My latest acquisition is a Model 1892 made in 1914, caliber .25-20, with original Lyman #2 tang sight, and I plan on using it for small game this fall and winter (I've been casting, gas checking, lubricating and sizing bullets and loading ammo for it over the past couple of months).

The old 1886 in .45-90 has proven itself on Rocky Mountain elk, as has the Model 71 in .348 Winchester and the Model 1895 in .405 Winchester. The 1873 in .44-40 has been lots of fun for decades. The 1885 Winder Musket .22 Short is just the ticket for cottontails. The 1894 in .38-55 is a great all around hunting rifle for just about anything I'm likely to come across in Colorado. The 1892 SRC in .32-20 is a handy little carbine. Just those seven would probably pay for a new car, but I wouldn't have near as much fun with the new car (and in 5 years it wouldn't be worth as much as one old Winchester).

Enjoy your Mosin Nagant!

Or Pancho villas guys. The 1894 we have was captured by my grandfather who killed one of villas thugs who had originally stolen this rifle from Columbus New Mexico.

THAT is cool! I wonder if it was one of the first guns smuggled south from Columbus by the corrupt Mayor and crew, way back then?

After the gun scandal in Columbus

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No good deed goes unpunished.

Oh and, the appeal of them to me is:most of what was said above but--ill add that it was the first rifle I ever fired (above BB and Pellet Gun and .22 status) and--I dont care if the newer made Japanese """Winchesters""" are prettier then those made here--ill never buy one of their and will only by one made here--I dont care what year its made.

Beore my financial "world" fell to pieces this year due to many things--I was looking at two diff Winchester "Gold trigger" rifles that have been showing up at the local gun show. Both together are $1,000. I would give some of my teeth to have been able to get them both. One was made in the late 80s-the other several years later.

I tell my art history students there are five factors in determining the monetary value of art.

1. Age (older is generally better).
2. Scarcity...how many made or surviving?
3. Quality. Good is always good and better than bad.
4. Who did it? A painting by Rembrandt van Rijn will sell for more than one by Joe Smith.
5. "The Story" This explains why Vincent van Gogh's paintings sell for so much. They aren't that old, he produced about 2,000 of them so not scarce, I don't think they are all that good, but the tragic story of the suffering artist makes collectors want his work.

So let's look at this rifle.

1. 1889. Pretty old for a modern firearm.
2. Yes, they made lots of these, but how many survive in good condition? You don't see a nice original 1873 at every show.
3. Winchester is recognized as a quality name. One of the biggest, in fact.
4. See #3 response. Winchester made good stuff. They are revered by many.
5. The history of the brand name. The Old West. The movies. C'mon...pure Americana.

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No life story has happy end.

I dont know but, all I do know is that someone had traced the rifle back to Columbus. My Grandfather was also one of the first people who resided in my home town of Kingsville, before the place even had a name. The town finally had an offiial name in 1904? and my grandfather ran a lumberyard on top of ran the first post office in town--which was actually justa tent with a few postbox shelves in it. My grandmother ran the place when he was out hunting villa. I wish I knew more? and I think nxt time I seemy Sister, think ill see what all she knows. :-))

Exactly!

And for me, especially the John M. Browning designed models. Those might as well be stamped with the Browning name.

I like Henry's too. An "old West" colletion aint complete without a Henry.

I once had a shot out model 73 in 32-20 rebored for 38 special. Had a 92 that was shot out and had it bored to .357. Both I had done in the early 1970s. The 92 I am showing was made in 1902 in 44 wcf. It came from a indian reservation in the dakotas. Some skunk stold it and more in a house burglary back in 2002 in california. I would like to have another custom 92 built up in .256 win mag.

I found myself warming up to the old lever guns, despite coming from a generation that thumbed our noses at the win 94 and the boring 30-30 cartridge that came with it.
It started with a Henry big boy in 357 I got for my wife.
Seemed a good paring.
Pretty rifle that resonated with her Midwestern sensibilities, in a cartridge she could play with all day long.
It was an over achiever of a rifle, action is silk and lighting backed up by a level of accuracy that honestly took me by surprise.
Then the crunch hit. My father could not find ammo to feed his mod 94 in 32 special.
It followed me home for some load development.
Took some scrounging, but I managed a good pair of loads.
In the meantime, I cleaned up the rifle, which sat dry for nearly 15 years.
Fungus removed from the bore, action lubed for the first time in all my memory.
She slicked up and snapped to attention as though it was dead set on showing the wife's rifle how it was done.
It handles right. It's quick to come up and stabilize on target.
The thing finally got my respect for this, and other reasons.
Now, I like me a good cast bullet launch platform, and despite my high tech redneck leanings, there's just something about the 45-70
yup, eventually one followed me home. Cause I am going to miss that win 94 after I deliver her back home.
I know some folks take exception to referring to an arm as "she", or "her".
It's a title of earned respect for an arm.
Not all will earn the distinction. It did earn the right to be called a lady amongst arms.
If you don't understand that, then you need a winchester model 94.

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it just needs more voltage

This is a model 64 made in 1951. 30-30 that I lucked into about 40 years ago. It was unfired but I have shot it. I gave $200s for it in 1974 money.

This one is a model 63 22lr. It is one of the very last made about in 1956 or 1957. Has the grooved reciever. I bought it brand new in the box for $165s around the later 1980s. I think these guns were a good investment. I have shot both lightly.

Exactly why I still drive my old 67 camaro around on the weekends. Because all the kids on the block have those cool looking new camaros. But mine seems to get way more attention. Even attention from those new camaro owners who keep slapping themselves for buying that new one lol.

I'm kind of fond of them, but with me it was mostly a phase.I was lucky enough to have an older gunsmith friend who was into these in the 70s and 80s. At various times I owned a '73, a '76, a couple of '86s, and a '94. Also worked (nowadays they call it "conservation) on some oldies but goodies for a museum including an unmolested Henry (VERY carefully!).

Two things I remember well--the blast in my ear when a balloon head .44-40 case let go in the '73's open top reciever, and the incredible amount of dried oiled dirt I got out of a '94 that hadn't been cleaned in80 years. And it still worked.

The only one left now is a '94 made in 1899. There's a (true) story with that one. It involves the RCMP in Whitehorse, Yukon territory; shots fired, and sundry mayhem. Good times, good times.

I don't remember Lucas McCain shooting a Mosin Nagant!

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Miss My Buddy crsides!!

Best color GM ever made! I envy you.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

Friend of mine in Ky. has ferel hogs tearing up his fields. This is a job for my 94/30-30 brush gun. Hasn't failed me in 44 years!

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

I've had to sell a few of my guns some time back but my heart still bleeds for my 16" .44 mag Winchester '94. Great little gun, very slick and accurate. Without it I wouldn't have been able to seal a very good deal either. I loved that gun, still miss it. If ever I have the opportunity to replace it I'll jump at it.

Still ROTFL. Simply a case of supply and demand. & I was gonna use the 'if you have to ask" line, but you beat me to it. To me (no offense) but the Mosins look like they should be carried by someone riding a camel, not a horse.

Love the old Winchester lever guns, but when it came to buy I couldn't find anything better in looks, feel and function than models made by Uberti w/20" barrel in .45LC. Yes, they are bit more expensive, but definitely worth the cost!

Hmmm, didn't Winchester make 95s in 7.62X54 and sell them to Russia?

Outside of Fabrage, and some of their vodkas, not much Russian stuff sells for a premium.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

If you've held both a Mosin Nagant and a Classic Winchester, and do not see the difference, I'm not sure I can help.

If that is the case, they are beyond help.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

Millions of old coins made
Thousands of old cars made
Same with old jewelry
Bicycles
Cameras
Typewriters
Furniture
The list is really endless of old and antique things that are highly valued for age, history or workmanship.
But to ask HERE why a Winchester would be worth a lot?
I have no answer that will make sense to you, I imagine.

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“Look life in its iron face”

Lotta snarky comments, but I have a thick skin. Yep, I've held both rifles and if I closed my eyes I bet I couldn't tell the difference in weight. And, hey, I can shoot pretty good groups with the Mosin from 100 yards with iron sights. Plus the ammo is cheap. Yep, agree Winchester is American as apple pie while the Mosin is Ruskie through and through. But my original point was value for the money. You can buy a Mosin and still have $1,500 left over for a good weekend in Vegas.

The young today just don't seem to have any respect for true Craftsmanship. It's all about price and if the item is a bit crude looking with an indifferent finish, so what.

Yeah, there were many hundred thousands of the 1873 Winchester made and hopefully most are still in working condition. What has to be considered is that every single one of those rifles featured parts that were hand selected and fitted to produce one of the smoothest cycling rifles on the planet. Then you have to consider the value of this rifle as a collectable. Unfortunately that will probably decline in the future due to the current generations lack of consideration for History or Quality Manufacture. However, right now they are held in extremely high regard by us old fogies who remember what real quality once meant.

As for it being an "obsolete caliber" the 38 WCF or 38-40 is actually a 40 caliber. This means that there is an extremely wide selection of bullets available to load with and brand spanking new cases can be purchased from Starline. While not a powerhouse or exactly easy to find the 38-40 has been seeing a resurgence in popularity in Cowboy Action shooting and really shouldn't be considered obsolete. In addition it's an easy caliber to reload for because components are easy to find.

Personally, I were to happen on an 1873 in good working condition in the 38-40 caliber I would have to think long and hard before walking away from one for 1750 dollars. Because it would make for a very easy shooting rifle that would be relatively cheap to reload for.

I hope I didn't come across as snarky, wasn't my intent at all.

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“Look life in its iron face”

But I don't think the Winchesters have 'mystique'. They've been incredibly popular since their inception for a good reasons. They are light, handy, compact and utilitarian. They do the job then and now. Always did a great job hunting in heavy forest and did the job hunting buffalo on the plains. I think they are fun as the Dickens to shoot.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

As an accredited appraiser I'll add a sixth factor for you and that's desirability.
An item can meet all of your 5 requirements but if no one or hardly anyone wants it the amount it's "worth" will be severly reduced.
Jim

An income large enough that $2k here and $35K there makes no difference.

They are expensive because everyone wants one or more and not that many are left especially in good condition.

This reminds me of another thread here in the lounge.

Let's compare this to artwork. To me, a Renoir isn't any more appealing than a dogs playing poker print.

Many other people do not feel this way.

In this vein, I can see where you are coming from. Some people look at a gun as a tool. Others see a precious work of art. I fall into the second category. You likely fall into the first.

With artwork, I see something that will cover a bad spot in the drywall. Other people see much more.

That's why they make a variety of stuff; to try and cater to us all.

Good points. Guns are made to be shot, IMHO, and therefore I prefer a shooter over a collectible. I'm not without sentiment but when it comes to firearms I see them as useful tools, like any other, and generally not "works of art," although some of the old Berettas and other classics fit this category. I wouldn't put a Win 73 in this category, however, given that so many were made and largely mass-produced despite the inherent craftsmanship.

I don't know either. That's why I bought a pair of Mosins for sub-$140 each out the door (both 1943 Izhevsks). Let other people with money to burn go for them "collectables".