I see that the government is as on-the-ball as ever. That last document. The RUSSIAN carbine, Type 56. I'm pretty sure that Type 56 SKSs are Chinese.

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I always take precautions

Early in the war- MAC V, I flew for the US Army- Army Security Agency doing airborne electronic survallance out of the Tan Son Nhut Air Base - then up north. The Gov't issued .45's we were issued were unreliable at best, probably picked over from the Korean war.

I, as did many others, obtained a new 9mm Browning - Hi-Power and used that as my side arm. (Thanks Mom)
The aircraft had no on-board armament - just three old .30 cal M-1 carbines rattling around in the back made by Saginaw Steering......just in case you had to get out and walk !
Still have the Browning.....
Hell of a situation when you've got to buy the guns you had to fight with.....Grrrrr !

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'I know nothing'.. Sgt. Shultz

Actually, it was called Project Eldest Son and later changed to Italian Green. I know a little bit about it if you have any questions.

Bob

I won't hold the clerk's error in vain - As it is an NVA SKS -

Me too. I remember driving home from high school one day and them announcing on the radio they had called off the draft. I remember thinking - whew!

Yes, I was also in high school at that time..

I don't have any specific questions but am limited on my knowledge of the subject. Can you educate some of us forum members who need some more learning?

My stepfather carried in Vietnam a Wehrmacht-issue FN Hi Power he'd captured during a previous assignment.

CatboatWillie, whats changed? When my step-son went to Iraq in 2003, as a Marine I purchased him a Barretta 9mm, as the Marines didn't have enough side arms to go around. I only told him, pass it along to a another Marine who could us it since it wasn't worth the grief if got caught trying to bring it home with him. Hopefully it's still getting use somewhere over there by one of the good guys....

This is a great thread……I was 18 in 1973, and missed Vietnam…..I had some friends that didn't, and some that died there.
I have heard a lot of stories about that war from people I know, but I appreciate the memories from the veterans on this forum, and I want to thank you all for your service to our country.

Semper Fi!

The U.S. Army designation for the Remington 700 was M24. But it did not receive this designation until 1988.

From 1972-1988. the M-21 was used.

it is a sniper rifle variation on the M14.

I am willing to bet that the Remington 700 seen in that Documentary was a civilian model pressed into service as a sniper rifle.

I sincerely Hope that this post has Not hijacked the thread or messed it up.

I don't know if this was an unusual weapon for a Navy Seal to use,but I know one that was there,and he used a Stoner .308.

The High Standard Model HD was the 1st "Hush Puppy", made during WWII. The Vietnam version was the S&W 39/39-2... aka the Mark 22 Mod 0.

Found these on the interweb some time ago. If the rear sight looks familiar it's because it was the basis for the "winged" adjustable rear sight that found their way on the production models. Originally the wings were to protect the conspicuously elevated rear sight, necessary for sighting over the top of the can.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Not exactly. While the M-24 is based on the Rem 700 it is a long action rifle and is considered a SWS (Sniper Weapons System). Even though it was a long action it was chambered for the NATO 7.62, not 30-06 as some thought.

The first Rem 700s were designated M40A1 and were just standard 700 ADLs or BDLs. It was a short action .308 so would fire NATO 7.62 rounds. The M40A1 predated the M-24 by 25 years.

The M-21 was indeed a Match Grade M-14. But it wasn't fielded until 1969 as I was rotating back to CONUS. I would have loved to have gotten my hands on one. As god as the M-40 was, the 21 would have been awesome.

Bob


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Some photos I've filed away for my collection -

A pile of Type 53s -




A pile of French MAS 36s -




Some bolt stuff in here somewhere -




A pile of bolt guns -




Some Aussies -




Per a few comments above regarding this configuration -




One of my favorite photo -

IIRC the original Bushmaster bullpup rifles (utilizing as many M16 parts as possible) were designed for helicopter pilots to engage targets from either seat.

As I understand it, the case was packed full of C4. It went off just fine with the rifle primer, and would cut an AK 47 in half. I've seen pictures. I think both sides use this trick against the other.

There were lots of Russian captured kar 98Ks, called 'Stalingrad rifles'. They had an extra number engraved on the bolt, probably applied in Russian for accounting purposes. I've seen these too. Some came back to the states.

After WW II, Mauser Werke wound up in the French zone. In addition to lots of other things, France assembled from parts a bunch of the latest version of the Kar 98K, and used them for forestry guards. I doubt any got to Indo China. (Other things: about 60,000 P 38s, svw 45 and svw 46; HScs; WTP2, some Lugers, including a few with 8 inch barrels; and some training rifles that later became the MAS 45.)

Just about everything at one time or another was captured. There was an Army Field Manual on weapons used by the VC and it had everything from 1917 Enfileds, to Winchester 1895's in 7.62x54R, to French stuff, to the more common SKS/AK and to the workshop built guns. Pretty much anything, especially earlier in the war. Later in the war, you will see more standard AK/SKS, etc because of the political forces in play at the time.

When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, I remember watching Dan Rather wandering the hills with the Muj. They had a Lewis gun and a bunch of Enfields. Later on you see AK's provided by various sources or captured, but early on it's "run what you brung". Same thing in Vietnam.

Back then, sniper programs weren't what they are now. Not many resources were devoted to snipers. At the beginning of US involvement in Vietnam, the standard sniper rifle was the M1C/D.

The Marine Corps had an advantage in better doctrine, but they had to actually field M1's early on, and used many target rifles, such as Carlos Hathcock's Winchester Model 70, to begin with. The Marine Corps finally got the M40 out, though it had some problems early on.

The Army had virtually no doctrine. No training, no schools, nothing. The Army had required the M14 be able to mount a scope, but ten years after it's adoption, the Army hadn't bothered to even design a scope mount for it. There was no Army sniper program frankly.

In-country Army units established their own schools. Had their own troops build up M14's. Locally designed and fabricated scope mounts and obtained whatever scopes they could. Big Army finally got going on it, and the result was the M21. The Army stuck with a semi over a bolt in part because of the human waves it had faced in Korea. After Vietnam, the Army pretty much dropped anything to do with sniping. A couple units maintained their own schools and along with the AMTU tried to keep the idea alive until sniping was resurrected in the Army in the 80's.

So it wasn't like today where the value of snipers is recognized by the services. A 700ADL with a PX bought Bushnell scope is absolutely believable.

One of my favorite photo -

[/QUOTE]

Looks like that American is training the pants off of those Vietnamese.

Thanks to all who served. I was 10 in 1973.

I didn't serve in Vietnam (I'm in my 20's) but my Grandpa did.

He was issued a M3 and 1911, but he also carried S&W m49 and a "small .22 pistol". I assume he brought or got these while over there. He can't remember what pistol the .22 was.

This has been a great thread. Thanks to those who served and those who have shared.

Was he in tanks? The .45 auto and M-3 sounds like it.

The original was in .221 Fireball.

The irony is that the sniper that had the most confirmed kills in Vietnam was an Army guy. Hathcock was #3 or #4 on the list.

Bob

From my limited research, the chemists had a difficult time coming up with an explosive for the rifle cartridges that resembled gun powder. They wanted it to be a normal looking cartridge if it was pulled apart for inspection.
I have heard of 1 helicopter pilot that carried a Colt Woodsman 22 caliber and a hundred rounds of ammo instead issue firearms.

[QUOTE=Engine49guy;138116984]IIRC the original Bushmaster bullpup rifles (utilizing as many M16 parts as possible) were designed for helicopter pilots to engage targets from

Do you have any information that it was ever purchased or issued?
Don't think it ever was. It was a pie in the sky.

When you are fighting Commies or folks supplied by Commies, I don't find it unusual to see them use Commy weapons.
I think the most unusual (unexpected) we have seen on this thread so far is the 98 Mauser. Didn't see that one coming!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Project Eldest Son was initiated by a SOG Colonel named Singlaub in 1966. By the time I got there in December of 1967 it had been going on for a while.

The information we were given at the time was that the explosive actually used was formulated at a CIA lab in Okinawa. Don't know if that was true or not but I do know, for a fact, that the "sabotaged" munitions were transported from Okinawa (Kadina AFB) where they had been uncrated, buggered and then re-crated. This work was most certainly done by the CIA on the island.

Placement was accomplished by various SOG units in country. The most difficult to place was the mortar rounds because they were so damn heavy to carry. Sometimes we'd carry that stuff around for a week or two until we found a suitable cache to place them in.

After the Khe Sanh party was over there were several 82MM mortars found with nothing left but the base plate.

Bob

PS: By the way, John Singlaub was a born again bad ***. I think he eventually rose to 3 Star.

One of the rifles I sometimes regret NOT purchasing was a very rough Remington 700 with scope that a Columbus gun shop had in the late 1980's. The rifle had the bring back papers and a letter by the person who brought it home explaining how the rifle was found in a hut during a sweep. There was a copy of the documents from Remington where the rifle was sold to the US Navy, a copy of the work order sending the rifle to a Navy ordinance shop for fine tuning and a copy of the document transferring the rifle from the Navy to the USMC. While I'm sure the USMC knew who the rifle was last issued to they were not releasing that information. Like I said though, I only sometimes regret not buying that rifle.

I've posted it before, but my Great Uncle acquired a model 48 to shoot snakes on the Da Nang runways. He couldn't carry his Colt 601 and load bombs on the B52s at the same time.

He also told me about the time an Aussie officer made him and his men outfit a Jeep with a 20mm Cannon, lol

Where was he stationed? The B-52s flew from Anderson AFB, Guam.
Any B-52 that ever landed at Da Nang was shot up and limping in.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

He was a bomb loader in Da Nang. I just assumed it was with 52s. I wasn't around for another 20-25 years so I couldn't say what models for certain, lol.

Well,where to start? My first two tours I smuggled my Python in and out.Third tour the Army was getting "hot" on privately owned weapons[POW] so I left the Python home. When I got to Da Nang [Marble Mountain] my unit [282nd Assault Helicopter Co.]issued me a brand new S&W mod. 10 blue, 4" round butt.I told the supply guy I didn't want that thing give me a .45 .I found out the TO&E[Table of Organization and Equipment] had changed and we weren't authorized .45s. I bought 2 qts. of Jim Beam at the Officers Club and went over to the Marine side of the airfield. I came back within an hour with 2 1911As and an ammo can full of mags. and ammo!
My first two tours I "acquired" various Thompsons, Grease guns, M-1 & M-2 Carbines and a French MAT sub gun! I gave all this hardware to fellow pilots who were only authorized a handgun. I carried an M1A or an M1A1 Thompson all the time. Third tour I couldn't beg, barrow, or steal a Thompson. I never liked the Grease guns so, I managed to deal into a "Swedish K" , Carl Gustav M-45. It was destroyed in my last helicopter crash.
In ,66-,67 I was flying in support of the 1st Bde, 1st Inf. Div. their "fun trick" was to swap smoke grenade fuses in to frags and leave them along the trail for the VC.. Nothing like pulling the pin and chucking that rascal only to have it airburst about 5 feet above, and 10 feet in front of you!!! "Mr. Charles" didn't like that much!
There are many other fun things I could pass on but my memory is short and this post is long so, I'll just say God Bless America, Nick

The most fascinating threat I've read in a long time.

Thank you and welcome home! Awesome after action report Smokey -





Trading materials -

I was with 3 MAF, Studies and Observation Group, Counter Intel, at marble Mountain from December 1967 until June 1969. First 2 digits in my MOS was 02??. Beyond that there's not much I'm willing to talk about concerning my personal comings and goings.

Bob

Lots of "Arc Light" missions were flown out of Kadena, Okinawa as well. As a side note, the United States dropped more bombs on North Vietnamese Army-occupied eastern Laos than it did during World War II on Germany and Japan combined.

Bob

They are Montagnard - Indigenous to the central highlands of VN -


Thank you and welcome home Bob -

Didn't 5th special forces have a compound just to the north of Marble Mountain..I mean the mountain. South of MAG 16..Sorry not a Army guy, might have been 3rd special forces..
Circa '69-'70...
Marble mountain proper had some serious firepower for close support..Quad 50's and other naval turret weapons..Never saw them, just was on the receiving end..

Didn't someone report on one of the surplus sights the vc had 55 gallon drums filled with cosmoline with 98k mausers stuffed in them.

Didn't the French use the French MAS 49 & MAS 49/56 rifles over there in rice land?

In the beginning was M1 Garands with the stocks cut down issued to the RSVN and when the recoil was a bit much for the guys, M1 Garands were replaced with M1 Carbines ?

They sure did BB -


An early picture of VN troops with MAS CR39 -




Algerians in VN with MAT 49 subgun -




The smaller VN troops liked the carbine much better -



This is a cool one - My Brother in law's boss when he was in VN with an XM21 - Circa 69 -

Yes, the two tenant commands were Mag-16 and 5th Special Forces. However, there were several "Operational" units there that were not part of the base command structure including SOG units from Army, Navy, USMC and USAF.

Bob

Those subguns look like Danish Madsen M-50's.

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BCCI Life Member #2068

The French were pretty much out of Vietnam after 1954 so they wouldn't have had the MAS 49/56 but I'm sure they had the MAS 44 and 49 as well as the MAT 49, MAS 36, MAS36-CR39, etc.

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BCCI Life Member #2068

I read an article on this subject a while back that listed some of the SOG guys' toys. They liked suppressed SMG's and one guy carried a Marlin .45-70. Gotta love a soldier that fights with the same cartridge as they carried in the 1800's.

No, he was in the Marines. He said that they were tasked with ambushing mule trains coming over from Laos. He might have traded for the M3, not sure.

Dad shot 5" guns...

from the Gulf of Tonkin from aircraft carriers. 1963-67

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War Eagle! '10 BCS & '13 SEC

1971 I worked in a sporting goods store in NJ.
Sold a 99 Savage in .308 to a soldier going on his 4th tour.
I asked him why 4 tours and his reply was he hadn't gotten even yet.
He also mentioned he wanted the Savage so he could reach out and touch someone. I don't recall what the scope was.

I really wanted a S&W snub 19 before I enlisted. Then the problem came up. I was only 18 NO and SALE for me.
I was 58 when I got the 19 Smith.
Never went to the Pacific and made it home from where I did go.

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Have a blessed day ,
Bull

These pictures are for Smokey04 - Voyager28 and LitenLarry - Welcome home Gentlemen -

Edit to add - For Rusty1953 - Welcome home!

Da Nang and Marble mountain -

Da Nang airbase in 1970 was the busiest airport in the world!

That bottom pic of Marble mountain looks like it was taken from 3rd Amtracks, 3rd MarDiv rear area..I was there for a short time before going to 1st Recon, 1st MarDiv..Our rear area was near Freedom Hill, aka hill 327..