Was just watching "Brothers in War" that followed the life of Charlie company in Vietnam. Within 18 minutes I saw 2 guns that were not US equipment from my limited knowledge. One was a standard barreled Remington 700 ADL with a cheap Bushnell scope. The other was hard to see well but was a wood stocked gun that appeared to be a self loader but was not a Garand, M1 carbine or a M-14. Did any veterans in this forum see or use any non standard guns while vacationing in Vietnam on the government plan?

Standard issue M16a1,1911s,M79,M60,we're not allowed to use captured weapons.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Probably an SKS.

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Hold my beer and watch this!

SOG used non-US weapons for classified missions for deniability.

Some SF units had sterile Hi powers and Swedish Ks.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

I saw what I am sure was a suppressed Ruger Mk 1.

DaNang class of 72

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

Rumour control has it that some VC personnel had Mauser 98k rifles that the Russians had captured in the Great Patriotic War. Maybe it was an attempt at plausible deniability that was abandoned at a later date. VC snipers seemed to have easy access to the PU equipped Mosin 91/30.

..........and got "unauthorized" weapons. We would have to turn them in, if we got caught at it.

I bought a 60mm mortar ($50 MPC) (less sights) from the local RF/PF company that my 105mm howitzer battery used for self-illumination purposes. Left it to the MACV advisors when we pulled out and stood down.

I also bought an .45 ACP M-3 "greasegun" for $20.00 from the ARVNs, but obviously I couldn't get this on the plane home and so gave it to one of the guys at II Corps HQ. Damn shame; it had the flash hider, magazine case and 5 mags.

What I really wanted but couldn't find was a .22LR rifle to use in our bunkers against the immense rats (we called them BFRs) that came inside during the monsoon. We finally made a special 45 round by pulling the slug, putting tissue paper over the power, placing an Artillery Plotting Needle in the center and then filling up the remaining space with melted candle wax. We'd field-strip the 1911, carefully ease the needle round into the barrel, then re-assemble the loaded gun. Shoot the rat, and pin it to the bunker wall, then the GI's dogs would get it. Great sport!

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Long Barrel
Retired Artilleryman

some how on my last trip over several 10 rd packs of CCI .38 spec shot shells got in my baggage. they were put to good use on those beaver sized rats. had to be close or it would just roll them. I saw all manner of non-issue firearms being carried and used. worked with a Marine Colonel who carried a pair of browning high powers with six mags across the back. carried them in a dark brown custom rig. cool looking and he could shoot with either hand. lee

Personal handguns were permitted. I was not in Nam but my brother
was and he bought a new Colt LW Commander before he left home
and took it with him. He bought an AK and a M3 Grease gun from
someone over there and sold them to new guys when he left. He said
he wanted to hide them in his stuff and try to bring them home but
was afraid he'd get caught.

I helped buddies in 69-70 send many sawed off pump 12gauge guns to brothers, uncles, fathers, friends, in Viet Nam. The guys loved them our in dense jungle patrols. Sacred the **** out of the Viet Cong!

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gunfighter48
NRA Life Member

I worked with a Special Forces (Green Beret) Sergeant who spent a couple of tours in Viet Nam. One of my favorite stories he told was how he liked to take a loaded AK-47 magazine, and strip off the top 3 to 4 rounds. He would then remove the projectile from one of the rounds, dump the powder charge, shave some strips of C-4 (plastique explosive) and stuff them into the cartridge case, reload the projectile, reload the magazine, and them leave the doctored magazine where it could be found by enemy troops. That Sergeant had a wicked sense of humor.

Regards,

Dave

Bolt guns were used by Army and Marine snipers. And I wouldn't presume it was equipped with a "cheap scope" at the time. It may have been the best available to them (optics have come a loooong way since the 60s).

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Even older, even crankier....

Check out the custom magazine on this one....



...and the Heckler & Koch ( I think these are Navy SEALS ?)


5.56mm STONER 63

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NRA Life
USPSA/IPSC

It all depended on your Company Commander or First Shirt. In the boonies most everything was ignored as long as you carried your primary.
DW

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"NUTS"

L1A1s and Reising SMGs were around.

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Halfway and one more step

The SEALs had suppressed S&W 39s or 59s.

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Cheers, Charles
SWCA #2442

never understood why we were told to never fire a battle field pick up til I saw a show on the history channel a few years ago. seems that we manufactured many, many cases of 7.62 X 39 loaded with explosives instead of powder and slipped them into the supply chain along the trail. don't remember what year that was but when I got there in late 69 it was in one of the first briefings. lee

We helped ship many a Browning 12 ga shotgun over there, and had lots of reports of them being used when issue rifles jammed in the mud. Don't remember the model, but it and the shells were very specific requests.

John Plaster's book "SOG" talks about that operation

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NRA Life
USPSA/IPSC

I've had friends tell me that Thompson SMGs were highly prized by vehicle drivers. They'd take the butt stocks off and had a handy full auto weapon at their disposal.
Jim

Remington, Winchester and Savage 12 gauge pump guns were common in the !st Cav, and usually carried by the point man on a patrol. Double 0 buckshot was also a standard issue item, as were some flechette loaded shells. I also saw .45 shot shells loaded with a plastic bullet containing steel pellets larger than BB pellets. I saw one suppressed M16 that the base defense guys used to shoot dogs that were messing up their personnel radar operations. I was there when we went across the border into Cambodia in May of 1970, and the caches uncovered there held all sorts of strange items, including muzzle loading guns and ammunition for Japanese WWII mortars and light howitzers. In my unit at various times, we had a US Thompson M1A1, an M3 grease gun, a Swedish Carl Gustav M45, numerous AK 47's and US M2 carbines. We also picked up a Chicom 7.63 sub machine gun still in the cosmoline that was a lot of fun to shoot once we found the cache that had the magazines. Once I saw a 1Lt in the Cav carrying a 1917 Colt revolver. You could see and get just about anything you wanted during that period.

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Tom
1560

I wasn't in Nam but in basic training (Sept '67) we all, in my company, qualified with and only saw the M-14 at the range.

you could use anything you got your hands on. couldn't begin to count all the non issue weapons I saw.

Each aviation company was responsible for their own security on their own flight line. We were given Mossberg 12 gauge riot-guns as the powers that be didn't want holes poked in their aircraft a quarter mile away.
As aircrew we got around - I did see a bunch of unauthorized firearms but, the most exotic stuff was usually carried by personnel back at base camp.

I read an article by a USAF fighter pilot that said his commander told the pilots to bring their own sidearms, as they were in short supply. Naval and Marine pilots also seemed able to use their own handguns. Jeff Cooper used to have a Q&A column in Guns & Ammo then, and he fielded quite a few questions about which gun was good to take to Vietnam. Many indeed came from pilots and other officers.

Life and other magazines often showed Special Forces men with personal handguns.

And Gen. Westmoreland had that ivory-handled Randall Model 1 knife...

Nothing, in war, is illegal. Only after the war is that thought up.
AK's were preferred over the jam-o-matic when it first was introduced.

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TEXAS, by GOD

Post-war, the French used the Kar98k. I don't doubt that some of them wound up in Indo-China.

Thompson SMG's were used by some personnel aboard USMC AmTracks..We had pump action SG's, M-2 Carbines, Sniper rifles were green wood Remy 700's, 3x9 optic..

The Remington 700 was used by American forces as a sniper rifle in Vietnam so the soldier carrying it could have been a sniper.

A suppressed Version of the S&W Model 39 was used by the Navy Seals during Vietnam the Seals called it the Hushpuppy because it was used by them to take out N.V.A and V.C. Base camp guard dogs they also used it against V.C. and N.V.A. human Sentry's as well.

When I arrived in-country they handed me an M-16. In 2 days I got rid of it for a FAL and a Browning Hi Power. Swapped the FAL for a .45 grease gun. Traded the .45 for a M-2 carbine. Eventually went back to the FAL . Saw a lot of LURPS with shotguns.
Always kept the Browning and I got it home.

AFS

Let's not forget the issue S&W M29's with a snubbie barrel used by tunnel rats.

Remington 700 was also know as the M40A1 Sniper rifle. Is was mounted with a Redfield 3-9 Accurange scope. It was a pretty good combo and 800 meter kill shots weren't all that difficult with the right conditions.

Bob

Maybe we weren't allowed but we sure as heck did. Especially for "Outside Chain of Command" operations.

Bob

I figure weapons policy enforcement varied as most policies do in the military. Did this vary typically only at the lower levels (team/squad) where NCOs decided what their guys needed or were there larger units (platoon/company) ran by lieutenants/captains that used non-regulation weapons as de facto policy?

I'm curious how this would work. Youd have to keep you M16 for inspection and accountability but on patrol you can run what you brung so long as your direct leaders allowed it?

I'm reading this thread with much admiration for you guys who were there. I was to young at the time..

I just want to thank you all for your service and sacrifice in that little war!!! THANK YOU ALL!!

You have to expect that wherever there is a guerrilla component to warfare, many civilian and obsolete military weapons will find their way into combat.

As an MP, I carried a .45 and an M14 but for my stint in the investigation unit (MPCI) I was issued a Colt Cobra, 2". I also carried, on occasion, an M3 Reising Sub-machinegun until a superior officer caught me with it and chewed me a new back side.

While in So. Vietnam, a bolt action, scoped Remington, in .222 was seized from guerrillas. I also saw an occasional Thompson, lots of M1 carbines and a few Garands as I recall. The local police units were all carrying either Colt or S&W 4" .38 SPL revolvers. Most were badly holster-worn and in that tropical climate, I'd pass on any wheel guns once carried by Vietnamese police.

The guerrillas made use of the SKS which were plentiful while NVA regulars mostly carried AK-47s.

During my time in Viet Nam, we only used G.I. weapons and ammo. That is my story and I am sticking to it.

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U.S. Navy - U.S. Army, ret

The rifle I saw in the photo was not the standard issue Remington 700 sniper rifle with the Redfield scope. It appeared to be a stock 700 ADL with impressed checkering and it had a small cheap Bushnell scope mounted on it. Very similar to the K Mart package guns. The US soldier holding the gun had it cradled in his arms. If you get a chance to see the show, the picture will appear within the first 15 minutes of the show.

The statute of limitations is over, if you have an alternate story please share it. This has turned into a great thread, thanks to all who have served. Ed

In 18 months "In Country" I never once carried a M-16. Now, that said, I was in a bit of a different kind of unit and we were allowed to select our weapon based on the mission we went out on. Most of the time I carried a M40A1 with a S&W Model 29, 4", as a side arm. My spotter usually carried a Remington Model 870 pump shotgun and the same side arm as I did.

The rest of the time, when operating in a "support and cover" mode, I opted for the M-14. I hated the early M-16s with a passion.

Bob

I will watch for a replay of the show. I do know for a fact that the early issue M40A1 was nothing more than a 700 ADL or BDL with standard wooden stock. Scopes were not consistent and were pretty much "whatever was available". Later on they standardized the weapon system to include the Redfield scope and later went to the Camo stock. Mine was of the original ADL variety but I did have the state of the art, latest technology, Redfield and felt darn lucky to have it. It was a pretty good scope but was not nearly good enough to fully exploit the capabilities of the weapon.

Man, I sure wish we'd have had some of todays wonderful toys to play with over there.

Bob

One of my good friends that went there told me long ago that he got his hands on a Thompson and carried it for about half of his time there. Said it came in quite handy at times. Never heard him say he took any static over it. Of course when he came back he had to leave it there!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Iraq ppsh

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NRA Life
USPSA/IPSC

The "Hushpuppy" was a suppressed High Standard .22lr semi-auto pistol.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

That's interesting that you had a standard ADL. This might just be the answer I was looking for. The scope I described was my GUESS. However I saw so many of the cheap Bushnells that look spray painted, gloss black, that I feel comfortable with my guess.

Enjoying the thread Gentlemen -


Here are some documented bring backs from VN -

Why??? I am not EOD but would the C-4 even burn from ignition of a primer?? I would think that double, triple load of standard powder, seat the bullet deep with a very heavy crimp, would make for some FUN? Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

I read an interesting article on this subject in the American Rifleman magazine. The US government wanted to spread fear and mistrust of the NVA allies. The operation was called "Operation eldest son". The government scientists developed an explosive that when visually inspected, resembled gun powder. The US would find a stockpile of munitions, and instead of destroying, they would plant numerous explosive rounds of ammo, faulting mortar rounds that would explode when dropped down the tube and various other booby-trapped munitions. The VC got so vary of their own ammunition that they filed complaints with China for supplying them with defective munitions that were killing their own troops. An interesting operation.