|
 |

12-19-2014, 01:43 PM
|
 |
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,357
Likes: 3,990
Liked 51,949 Times in 6,162 Posts
|
|
The German MP 40 Submachine gun
Another sneak peek at a future article. Comments welcome.
John
One of the most iconic and recognizable weapons of the World War II period was the German Maschinenpistole 40 (MP 40) submachine gun and its look-alike predecessor, the MP 38. These were commonly called “Schmeissers” by Allied troops, but in fact most of the development work for these guns can be attributed to someone other than Hugo Schmeisser. His main contribution was the design of the magazine for this series. In Hollywood movies, one could get the impression that almost every German soldier was armed with an MP 40, but although this arm was indeed widely issued, the Germans’ main battlefield individual weapon during WWII was the bolt action K98k 7.9mm Mauser rifle. The features of the MP 40, while not revolutionary, were effective enough that they were copied to some degree in the design of the British Sten and American M3/M3A1 submachine guns. The story of this highly regarded weapon is an interesting one.
In 1936, anticipating the need for a more advanced submachine gun than the WWI-era wooden-stocked MP18, the German Army tasked and funded the manufacturing firm Erma Werke to develop one. What resulted was a machined steel prototype called the MP 36. It was developed by Berthold Geipel. Geipel based his design on certain features originated by Heinrich Vollmer in his earlier VPM 1930 and EMP submachine guns. The MP36 was not really suited for economical manufacture, so the German waffenamt, or weapons authority, put out a request for a better version. Vollmer then undertook to do that, simplifying Geipel’s design and submitted a prototype. This was a blowback folding-stock 9mm Parabellum design with a 32-round magazine. It was accepted as the MP 38, and was quickly put into production. It was produced from 1938 to 1940 at Erma Werke.
The full-automatic-only design had a recoil spring that was fully enclosed by three telescoping tubes that served as a sort of pneumatic buffer and helped to keep dirt away from the spring. The ribbed upper receiver had a slot for the operating handle, and had a “safety slot” for the handle to enter, holding the bolt more securely to the rear. The gun had a forward-folding metal stock, and the magazine well also served as a front grip. A reinforced plastic lower section joined the upper with the aluminum lower receiver. Usually colored dark reddish brown or black, it served as a heat shield to protect the user from burns on the hands when carrying the piece. There was a long firing pin at the front of the recoil spring that protruded constantly from the face of the bolt. This was in effect a replaceable substitute for a fixed firing pin. Pulling the trigger released the bolt to go forward under the pressure of the recoil spring, chamber a round, slam fire it, and continue to do so until the trigger was released or the magazine emptied. A plastic or metal “resting bar” with a forward projection ran the lower length of the barrel. Its purpose was to keep the muzzle from pulling back from armored vehicle ports or edges, thus helping to prevent inadvertent firing while inside the vehicle. The grip panels were plastic. A two-leaf notched rear sight worked with a hooded front sight. The muzzle was threaded for accessories and had a screw-on protector.
The MP 38 was not without its problems, and some needed improvements were made. For one thing, if the bolt was forward on an empty chamber and a loaded magazine was inserted, dropping the gun could cause the heavy bolt to drop back behind the magazine under inertia and against spring pressure. It would then go forward, stripping a round from the magazine into the chamber and firing it. This was not conducive to the health of the user. A field expedient was the issuance of a leather harness with a small loop that could be wrapped around the bolt handle to keep the bolt in the forward position. Later MP 38s had the bolt handle as a separate part, which could be pushed into one of two notches in the raceway to lock the bolt either forward or back.
Soon, the product-improved MP 40 was adopted. It dispensed with the machined grooved upper receiver, substituting a simpler stamped and formed part. A large hole in the magazine housing was eliminated. This space was replaced by stamped ribs. The formerly aluminum rear grip frame was now stamped from steel and formed. The steel middle section of the telescoping spring tube was drawn and pinched. A new extractor and magazine release assembly was fitted. There were other minor improvements. These things saved some weight and reduced production time and cost. A common problem with both the MP 38 and the MP 40 was that soldiers often grabbed the magazine itself as a forward grip, pulling it out of correct alignment and causing misfeeds. The Germans quickly instructed their troops to grasp only the magazine well, not the magazine itself. A problem that was never solved was that although the magazine was a double-stack type, it had a single point feed arrangement. The traffic jam of rounds meeting there and the additional friction that system caused did not make for reliability. Users often loaded the magazine with 30 or 28 rounds rather than 32 to lessen the increased friction inherent in a fully-loaded mag. Unfortunately, the British Sten and the U.S. M3/M3A1 subguns copied this arrangement instead of using the well-thought-out Thompson SMG-type magazine which reliably fed its double-stack rounds alternately from one side and then the other.
The MP 40 weighed about 8.8 pounds empty, had a barrel length of 9.9 inches, and measured 32.8 inches with the folding stock extended. Folded, it taped out at a compact 24.8 inches. Its rate of fire was from 500 to 550 rounds per minute. Muzzle velocity varied with the 9mm ammunition, but was in the 1250 to 1300 fps range. I have had the opportunity to fire the one illustrated a few years ago, made by Haenel (located in Suhl) in 1942. It had little recoil, and was as easy to fire as spraying a garden hose. I was quite impressed with it. Although the arm is full automatic only, with practice, one can tap off single shots. The effective range was about 80 yards.
40,576 MP 38s were produced during the war, and 869,792 MP 40s. The prime manufacturers were Erma Werke, Steyr, Haenel, and Erfurter Maschinenfabrick B. Geipel GmbH. Although the arm was ideally suited for the fallschirmjaegers (paratroopers) of the Luftwaffe, it was also initially issued to squad and platoon leaders in the Wehrmacht and the Waffen SS. By the war’s end it was widely distributed through all the services and issued to nearly all ranks.
Noticing that the Russians on Germany’s eastern front were using PPSh 41 submachine guns with 71-round drum magazines, a variation of the MP 40 was made that could use 64 rounds contained in two side-by-side 32-round magazines. These could be individually selected in a sideways-sliding mount. This was the MP 40/I, and its weight was thereby increased by a little over a pound. A wood-stocked selective-fire version was designed by Hugo Schmeisser for Haenel, and was designated as the MP 41. In 1944, efforts began to replace both the MP 40 and K98k rifle with the selective-fire MP44 / StG 44 Sturmgewehr assault rifle, which used an intermediate-power rifle cartridge. Unfortunately for the Germans, this revolutionary and effective arm never achieved full production before the war was over.
After the war, captured MP 40s were often distributed by the Allies to developing countries, and were used in Greece, Israel, Korea, and Vietnam. The Norwegian Army used them from 1945 to about 1970, and their Home Guard issued them until the early 1990s. Some are still encountered around the world in various conflicts.
The MP 40, while imperfect, was still a formidable submachine gun, and was highly respected during WWII. It was, and is, a classic weapon of that war.
(c) 2015 JLM
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -
Last edited by PALADIN85020; 01-08-2015 at 06:20 PM.
|
The Following 17 Users Like Post:
|
Absalom, Dennis The B, fdw, federali, JeffNW, JohnHL, LTC, Maximumbob54, moosedog, mustangman, OFT II, REM 3200, Shorty 45 MK2, shouldazagged, sigp220.45, sureshotbob, wbraswell |

12-19-2014, 03:44 PM
|
 |
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 3,601
Likes: 1,882
Liked 8,231 Times in 2,112 Posts
|
|
Very nice. And thank you for not boring me, a la Shotgun News, with paragraphs on the Rockwell hardness of the grip screws or the 47 steps needed to heat treat the sear spring.
|

12-19-2014, 04:01 PM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 10,487
Likes: 10,892
Liked 28,795 Times in 5,346 Posts
|
|
Very interesting article. I'm glad I got to read it. Thanks for sharing your knowelge of all of these old warriors.
When I went to work for a City PD. they had one of those and a Thompson. I got to fire both and was greatly impressed by the MP 40. It was a beautiful weapon.
Not long after I fired them, the COP traded them for two AR-15's. Nearly broke my heart.
__________________
Eccentric old coot
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|

12-19-2014, 04:34 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 115
Likes: 18
Liked 102 Times in 43 Posts
|
|
The Norwegians were still using them in 1984. I saw a liaison officer with one up north of Trodheim. Got to hold it for a few. He didn't want to sell it.
|

12-19-2014, 04:39 PM
|
 |
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,340
Likes: 3,819
Liked 3,927 Times in 1,205 Posts
|
|
I would just note that my Dad, who was in the war in Europe, called them a "burp gun" sometimes too.
And - great article!
Last edited by jmace57; 12-19-2014 at 04:41 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|

12-19-2014, 05:24 PM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,422
Likes: 1,574
Liked 4,314 Times in 1,826 Posts
|
|
Never bored reading about German small arms of WWII. They were light years ahead if the rest of the world and have always fascinated me.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|

12-19-2014, 07:20 PM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central NC.
Posts: 3,207
Likes: 37,672
Liked 4,394 Times in 1,852 Posts
|
|
Very nice write up and thank you for posting it.
|

12-19-2014, 07:26 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: A Burb of the Burgh
Posts: 15,179
Likes: 2,428
Liked 20,591 Times in 9,083 Posts
|
|
Just thank God ....there weren't more of them....... Germany is a fairly small country........
Was is dus los????
|

12-19-2014, 07:33 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Peach State! GA!!!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 14,728
Liked 6,388 Times in 2,376 Posts
|
|
Thank you for this post. Appreciate the descriptions, background on development, issues, etc.
__________________
<><
|

12-19-2014, 07:35 PM
|
 |
Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: PA.
Posts: 9,774
Likes: 50,901
Liked 44,478 Times in 8,620 Posts
|
|
Great article thanks for posting it!
|

12-19-2014, 07:35 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Charles Town, WV
Posts: 4,159
Likes: 959
Liked 1,924 Times in 1,129 Posts
|
|
Good article I always enjoy reading them.
Just imagine how many Russians wouldn't be here now if they developed the MP44 / StG 44 Sturmgewehr assault rifle earlier on in the war.
__________________
Psalm 23:4
|

12-19-2014, 07:38 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,644
Likes: 1,351
Liked 1,478 Times in 626 Posts
|
|
This is just one of the reasons I enjoy this forum so much!
|

12-19-2014, 11:16 PM
|
 |
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: illinois
Posts: 6,240
Likes: 1,983
Liked 7,139 Times in 2,223 Posts
|
|
John, great article. Didn't you mean to say Eastern front?
|

12-20-2014, 02:08 PM
|
 |
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,357
Likes: 3,990
Liked 51,949 Times in 6,162 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by max
John, great article. Didn't you mean to say Eastern front?
|
Oops! Thanks for the sharp eye!
John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -
|

12-20-2014, 06:14 PM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: TN
Posts: 2,319
Likes: 5,708
Liked 5,075 Times in 1,468 Posts
|
|
Third paragraph, first sentence "that that".
Great article!
|

12-20-2014, 06:39 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,926
Likes: 14,444
Liked 3,768 Times in 1,787 Posts
|
|
I couldn't find any reference in your article caliber of the ammunition that fits the MP40. 9mm...right?
__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821
|

12-20-2014, 10:48 PM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,422
Likes: 1,574
Liked 4,314 Times in 1,826 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM
Just thank God ....there weren't more of them....... Germany is a fairly small country........
Was is dus los????
|
Lest anyone think the German infantry squads were out-gunned with their 98s, remember the German's had the first SAW, and the nastiest one of the war, the MG-42. Even with their M1s and BAR, the German squad could lay down several times the fire of the Americans. German infantry tactics centered around the MG.
While deadly, SMGs are fairly small potatoes in classic infantry warfare. Be really thankful they didn't come up with the MP/Stg 44 and the ME-262 earlier.
The Russians first met up with the Alpha Assault Rifle when they tried to advance on a squad of Germans on the Eastern Front. Late in the war, when they finally had enough guns for everybody, the Russians developed the tactic of advancing behind a hail of pistol bullets from their PPSh 41s. As soon as the Russians broke cover at around 200 yards, a hail of fire came their way and they found themselves getting mowed down before getting anywhere close to effective range for their SMGs
Unfortunately for the Germans, the Russians brought up a tank that cleaned them out with a couple rounds of Willy Peter.
|

12-21-2014, 01:21 PM
|
 |
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,357
Likes: 3,990
Liked 51,949 Times in 6,162 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlii
Third paragraph, first sentence "that that".
Great article!
|
Corrected. Thanks!
John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -
|

12-21-2014, 01:23 PM
|
 |
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,357
Likes: 3,990
Liked 51,949 Times in 6,162 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by S&WIowegan
I couldn't find any reference in your article caliber of the ammunition that fits the MP40. 9mm...right?
|
Near the end of the 2nd paragraph, the MP 38 is described as being a 9mm Parabellum design. The improved MP 40 didn't change that. I will add another reference to the 9mm when referring to the MP 40 to make that clearer. Thanks.
John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -
Last edited by PALADIN85020; 12-21-2014 at 01:33 PM.
|

12-23-2014, 04:27 PM
|
 |
WW II Vet
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: COLORADO
Posts: 1,572
Likes: 849
Liked 4,431 Times in 648 Posts
|
|
When I was in ,we called the Schmeissers " Burb guns. " Because they fired so fast.
Dick
Last edited by vrichard; 12-23-2014 at 04:28 PM.
|

12-23-2014, 08:59 PM
|
 |
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ALBUQUERQUE, NM
Posts: 14,746
Likes: 8,594
Liked 27,191 Times in 9,149 Posts
|
|
As I have reported before- a neighbor sent 3 sub machine-gun home from Italy.
A Grease gun, a Beretta , and a MP-40.
They were the first 'chine-guns' that I ever saw.
Was that the Southern Front?
It absolutely was not the soft underbelly.
__________________
NRA LIFE MEMBER
|

12-24-2014, 12:06 PM
|
 |
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,357
Likes: 3,990
Liked 51,949 Times in 6,162 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PILGRIM
Was that the Southern Front?
|
Generically, it was the German Eastern front, although Stalingrad was more to their Southeast.
John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -
|

01-05-2015, 07:24 PM
|
 |
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,357
Likes: 3,990
Liked 51,949 Times in 6,162 Posts
|
|
Thanks to the benevolence of a friend, I was able to photograph his MP 40 in some detail today. This is the very MP 40 I had shot years ago. The code on the piece indicates it was manufactured by Haenel in 1942. Strangely, the magazine is one from an MP 41, which is basically an MP 40 with a wooden stock. Of course, the magazines are interchangeable. This mag is marked "MP 41," and is stamped "PATENT SCHMEISSER."
Here are the photos I took today, which may be of interest. I find this a really fascinating firearm.
John
(c) JLM 2015
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -
|

01-05-2015, 08:09 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Southside
Posts: 920
Likes: 280
Liked 1,286 Times in 419 Posts
|
|
On the eastern front the Germans liked the Russian PPSH 41 better than the MP-40. PPSh-41 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia THE GERMANS WERE NOT ALL THAT AND WERE A MINUTE LATE AND A PENNY SHORT AND NO COMMAN SENSE LOOSER'S.
|

01-05-2015, 08:21 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 254
Likes: 665
Liked 151 Times in 86 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmace57
I would just note that my Dad, who was in the war in Europe, called them a "burp gun" sometimes too.
And - great article!
|
My Dad also called it a burp gun. He was a Sgt. in the 160th Combat Engineers.
|
 |
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|