Hello all:

I have been playing "internal mental tennis" for a while. You know, "should I buy-or should I not but" a new gun or caliber or whatever it might be. You know that internal debate we all have from time to time.

I have been considering something in a 9mm for a long while; revolvers, micros, just a little bit of everything. Pro: the 9mm is probably the cheapest thing one can shoot if you do not load yourself. And I do not see that in my future. Con: buying another caliber weapon is somewhat like having a new baby or getting another hunting dog--just another mouth to feed.

My point is this, I was wondering what might be a good option so I will not have to spend too much on the front end to see if I like the caliber or no? I am not sure I want a "micro" anything. I carry a Taurus 738 380acp (that I might add runs flawlessly), Ruger LCR 357, and a Smith Model 360PD Scandium in my rotation. Any Micro 9s "kinda-sorta" defeat the purpose of my time and money to buy at this point of my internal discussion. Would not make a good range gun IMHO.

So, I was thinking of a SCCY or a Hi Point??!! The HP can be bought for about 1/2 of the SCCY. Both, as appraised by those on some other gun boards, are either "love-um" or "hate-um" responses.

I am leaning towards the HP. I have a friend who has the 40 and the 45, and they both run flawlessly. Heavy as a boat anchor. Ugly as a mud fence. Then the SCCY does not have as good of reviews as the HP. But it sure is "purdy" by comparison.

These are my thoughts!

Yours?

rd

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"That is all!"

Get a CZ75B it's much better quality than the HiPoint.

Instead of these brands I would recommend a Smith and Wesson SD9VE. Great gun for the value, fits well in the hand, lifetime warranty and gets you a reliable home defense and range gun.

Just saying.

For a carry piece, the Glock 19 is hard to beat.

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Can my S&W Mdl 10 shoot +P

Consider investing in something that you can easily sell for close to what you paid for it.

There's not much to dislike about 9mm. You can probably find a used Shield in the low 300s if you look around. Nice shooting pistol, but still concealable. Lots of choices.

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Because of the metric system?

You might consider a used LE trade in..A Glock G17 can be found for a tad over $300 in some areas..Magazines are inexpensive as well..

There are many guns on the market that are top notch. First, what is your price range? I would visit your LGS and try the gun for size and fit. Is it too bulky, heavy, polymer, steel and try shooting some of those selected for recoil, concealment and caliber. Do not let anyone select one for you. You have to be satisfied with your selection. Would you purchase a suit without trying it on or altering it for comfort and style. There are plenty of guns in the $500.00 to $700.00 range that are top notch. The manufacturers such as CZ, H&K, USP, Springfield XD, S&W, FN are all quality guns but the final choice is up to you. Do some research on line for up to date guns. The market is crazy with guns and you need to weed out the ones that have some flaws that may alter your choice.

Nick

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NRA Instructor\GCA Gunsmith

Price range? That was the point and maybe I did not make it clear enough in the OP.

I wanted to spend just a couple of hundred bucks. I know, I know all of the arguments!!!

But I am not sure I want to spend a bunch of $$$$ for a caliber I may not even want or like or keep.

I am a wheel man and stuck on the 357 /38 /38 +p calibers. Have 4 all total with 2 of them being Smiths. (I must say if I had not bought the two Smiths for a song I would not own them or be on this board!!! But there is that special something about a Smith no doubt!).

You will not believe what I have been reading and studying this AM just now. I have been reading and watching videos on the Zastava M70s and M88s. They can be had new for about $250 in some quarters.

I seem to like and am drawn to the quirky guns. Just a character flaw I guess. Major purpose of the purchase would be just to see if I want to play in the 9mm pool or not. I am afraid that some of the present discussions are many, many $$$$ over my head.

Just some clarification thoughts.

Opinions?

Thanks,

rd

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"That is all!"

Okay here goes.
Opinions; 1. You get what you pay for.
2. You can re-sell a higher quality gun more easily than a
lower quality gun.
3. I'd rather wait until I had saved the cash for something nice
than settle for less.

Just my opinion....

Litenlarry nailed it on the head, pick up a used Glock G17 and if you like it, great, if like the caliber but not the gun, it will be worth the same amount you paid for it. No loss with this option. Good luck.

You may want to check out the Rock Island Armory's 1911 full size tactical in 9mm. The price is right, its a single stack all steel gun that is a real hoot to shoot. Recoil is minimal with the all steel beastie and mine has been 100% reliable right out of the box and accuracy has been very good.

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Stay safe people!

Jonny13SB stated the true facts. You get what you pay for and fit and finish is the ultimate end. For a few hundred dollars, there are plenty of guns on the market that will fill the bill but will not last and I surely would not depend on poor quality if my life or the life of my family is threatened. Again, there are quality guns out there that you do not have to break the bank. But would you forfeit quality and dependability for an inferior firearm?

Nick

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NRA Instructor\GCA Gunsmith

A 3rd Gen S&W would be my choice...

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Jorge

Many good suggestions, but the thing is, they aren't necessarily you. Everyone has different preferences, so suggestions may or may not fit you, personally. One suggestion I can make, however, is to find a range that rents firearms. They usually have a very good variety, especially if they are run by a gun shop, and you can try them out without committment. That way, you can find out if you like the caliber before you commit yourself to a purchase. I realize this is an additional cost, but may be worth it in the long run.

I would go with a used Glock. It will be easy to sell if you dont like it. There are also some used S&W autos out there as police trade ins.

I'd stay away from very small guns if you want to use them on the range and are not interested in carry. They just ain't that much fun to shoot compared to a gun you can get your hand around.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I would only buy a HiPoint if I was really strapped for cash, not because they don't function, but because there are way better guns out there for just a little more money.

Find a Star Model B or a B Super. J&G sales has them right now. Failing that, search around Gunbroker for a FEG HiPower clone or a Tristar or Witness CZ75 clone.

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Release the Kraken

Hands Down!

CZ Makes the best 9mm semi-auto handguns out there and they are reasonable!

My newer model CZ P-09 in 9mm - 19 +1 is an exceptional handgun!

If you're looking for a "range gun" as you said, how about considering a used 3rd generation S&W? I purchased this 5906 a couple of years ago. The result after a good cleaning, new OEM grip, silica shower and some new springs......a good, accurate, reliable shooter that is built like a tank. Total investment around $300.

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

Don't overlook the FEG version of the Browning High Power. Excellent fit and finish and about half the cost of a Browning. Excellent examples are found around here for $350 or so at the shows.

The Taurus PT-92/99 is also an excellent gun to be had at a reasonable price. The earlier ones built on the Beretta jigs are very nice.

True enough, but I wish people (including myself) would quit saying so. It can only drive up the price.

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Not in jail.

+1 on a Rock Island 9mm 1911. But even 'less expensive' are the bunch of used Beretta 92 for sale at surplus gun sites. I am fortunate enough to go to a range that rents them and they are mighty fine shooters.

You may get lucky and snag a Star M-30 at a good price or one of their SA versions. Many of the SA guns DO NOT have inertial firing pins.

The larger Taurus copies of the Beretta M-92 probably sell for modest sums.

You will like the ctg., I think. Don't underestimate it. I know a man who's killed 15 enemy soldiers with pistols, six with a .45; the rest with the 9mm. Even with the FMJ NATO load, they worked. He says that with good shot placement, the .45 didn't seem much more effective.

If you can't afford a decent 9mm, save until you can get one.
LVSteve had some good ideas, and someone should mention the Argentine copies of the Browning Hi-Power. They were made at Rosario Arsenal, not by some off-brand. The Star Modelo BM is one that Steve didn't mention. It's mid-size, and can serve as a CC item for many not needing a really small gun. The Star Modelo B that I had for awhile was reliable and quite accurate. Interarms used to run an ad for the Model 30 that said that one on a US shooting range had exceeded 100,000 rounds. I called that range and they had only praise for their guns and said that Interarms (now defunct) gave good support if they ever did have problems with a heavily used rental gun. On the negative side, Star is now out of business and parts and service are spotty. I wouldn't dry fire a Star as firing pins may break.

Overall, I'd probably look for an Argie copy of the Hi-Power or save for a CZ-75B. But the Serbian (Zastava) guns are probably sound, too, and sell at attractive prices. They may not work well with JHP loads. The Beretta M-92 series and the CZ-75B seem to feed everything and are quite accurate.
You can easily cull jackrabbits with them. SIG-Sauer slides may rust unless you get a stainless one. My son and his wife like their SIGs, but maintain them meticulously. Some owners don't. Maybe those are the ones who have rust issues. Personally, I wouldn't buy a SIG-Sauer that didn't have a stainless slide. The SIG P-210 is not at issue; it has a milled steel slide of known high quality. It also has a quite high price.

If someone has weak or atrophied muscles, the Walther P-1/P-38 and the Beretta 9mm's operate more easily than Browning-style guns, as the locking block releases more readily, allowing one to cycle the slide. I know a very experienced gun owner who has peripheral neuropathy who can no longer cycle the slides on most autos. He can still operate his Beretta M-92FS. He had to sell his CZ-75B. Said that about killed him, as he loved it so much. But he just couldn't cycle it any longer.

See if there is a firing range in your area. Many will have pistols for rent.

A 9mm semi-auto pistol that will fit a $200 budget? That puts you into a category that's a bit controversial to say the least. I can think of two brands. Jiminez and Hi-Point. If you absolutely must stick to the $200 budget, then I highly recommend Hi-Point. Why?

• Simple blow back design is so simple it's hard to screw up.
• Fixed barrel lends itself to accuracy
• Made in the USA
• Lifetime no questions asked warranty.

People will poo-poo the Hi-Point. They are big, heavy, and clunky. The trigger is unique. As long as you hold up your end of the marksmanship equation, it shoots straight and true.

Now for my opinion...

If you can just be patient and save another $100 to $150, your options open up: Walther PPX, Tri-Star CZ Clone, Canik TP9, Ruger SR9E, EAA Witness P, etc.

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-John

If you want a compact 9mm for carry I would suggest a S&W 3913 or a S&W 6906.

If you want a full size 9mm, I would suggest a S&W 5906 or a S&W 5903.

These are about the best 9mm firearms ever made and they can be had for reasonable prices. They are accurate, reliable, and pretty stylish looking.

If I needed a 9 mm on a tight budget it would definately be the SD9VE!

You may not like the 9mm cartridge if the gun you buy for it is not "shootable" or not accurate or reliable. Thus, to give the caliber a fair evaluation, I suggest a better gun than a Hi-Point.

Here is list of nice, affordable, shootable, re-saleable 9mm pistols: Colt 1991 (yes they do make them in 9mm), Glock 17 or 19, FN FNS, CZ75B, Beretta M9, Browning High Power Mk III, HK P2000, P30 or USP Compact, Ruger 9E, SIG M11A1 or Mk 25, S&W SD9VE or M&P 9, Walther PPX or PPQ.

If one of those won't do, then you are too picky!

What he said!

Right now you appear to be undecided. It would be helpful to rent some and figure out what you like. That'll help you narrow it down.

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But then, what do I know?

Good list! I sold my M9, have the CZ75B and am planning to get a Glock 19...

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But then, what do I know?

I agree with those who have suggested a used glock 17 or a
3rd gen S&W. If new is what you want look at the ruger SR9. It's priced about $75-100 below a new Glock.

Kevin

One way to beat high retail prices and sales tax is to shop for a used firearm of higher quality. The majority of my collection was purchased used and all of them function very well. I believe that most people don't shoot their guns enough to even come close to wearing them out before they change hands.

For arthritis reasons, I need a slim profile grip. Glocks came and went quickly, as did the FNx. Both for grip reasons.

I own a Shield 9 & VP9. After some trips to the factory, the Shield is now top notch, and I will happily shoot it as a range gun.

The VP9 has been flawless out of the box. Excellent range gun. A guy in the next lane asked about it, I let him shoot it, he went to the counter and bought one. Wish I got a commission. hrmph.

First I would identify my motivation or purpose for buying a 9mm. Yes, the ammo is cheaper then even a 380. But, if you have a great gun with 9mm, you would probably like the caliper. If you have a cheap gun, chances are you will not like it. I personally shoot a Sig P226 Mk25 which was mentioned earlier for 9mm mostly. I love the gun and the caliper. But, I have also shot a K-tec in 9mm also. I found it to be horrible. If that was the only experience I had with 9mm, I would have a very negative attitude toward 9mm. And it wouldn't be justified.

buying a gun in the 200 range is not really realistic goal for a quality gun, unless you are an FFL or have a family member that is.

Perhaps you may wish to check out places like Bud's where they have make an offer deals. I just looked and I found some name brand striker fired guns that you should be able to offer less then 300. They have a Kahr CW9 listed at 333.00, but they could take less. I know people that own them and love them.

There are also 1911s in 9mm that might work for you...

My first observation is that tou already of a herd of small guns that you like. For this next one expand the breadth of your stable.

In broadest terms , think in terms of +/- 4in bbl , and a handle that all of your fingers will fit upon. Depending on who is making the catagories , this would be either a large-ish compact , or a small-ish service size. Big emough to be pleasant to shoot , yet still concealable with a decent holster.

$200 is not a worthwhile number.

There are a boatload of new 9mm postols with dealer shelf prices of -/- $400. If that price range doesn't suit your thinking , reconnsider your budget , or consider putting off this one until later.

If you drop down to the close to $300 range in used pistols , you can find some viable pistols , but the choices will be slim , and might not include what fits you best. Used Sigmas and Used Ruger P Series are plentiful , or various individual examples of misc imports / milsurp/ C&R are out there , but more a matter of watching and waiting for what becomes available at $300 than seeking a specific (whatever).

I could tell you that Biggfoot would lean towrds a trade-in LE Glock 17 , Argentine HiPower , CZ-75 family clone, or Stoger Cougar, or whatever quirky C&R cought my eye while browsing. The orthodox S&W collector's responce would be an SD , or a 3rd Gen

But you're not me , and what I like/ fits me , might not be what you like/ fits you..

I picked it up and immediately said, "Hey, I like this." Firing the first mag was a little tricky with the DAO trigger. By the second mag I loved it and wouldn't part with it. They really are that good.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I thank all of you for the thoughtful and quick answers. The Beretta 92s was mentioned I think as I read through the posts? Palmetto State has Italian police trade ins for a goodly price. See hyperlink below:

Beretta 92S Italian Police Trade In's 9mm

What think ye of this as an entry level?

Thoughts?

Thanks!

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"That is all!"

I own a Italian made Beretta 92FS Inox. It is the fourth 92 series pistol I have owned. They are wonderful pistols.


That said, the 92 was designed as a belt worn sidearm, not a CCW. It is large and thick, and is best concealed in a wheelbarrow. The front sight is integral with the slide and not replaceable, though some variations had dove-tailed sights. The model you listed has the mag release on the bottom of the stock instead of the frame. Some mags are made to work with both types, some mags are specific. In general, parts, mags, and holsters should be plentiful. The gun has a excellent reputation around the world. One drawback I should mention is that some folks tend to engage the safety when racking the slide; an error that may cost one's life in a combat or self defense situation. The "G" model corrected that issue.


Here is a photo of my Beretta with a Sig P226 to compare size.

the Beretta is nice at that price u cant go wrong i had one but now i have a sig 226

These Berettas are fine pistols and that is a very nice price. However, and this is not necessarily a problem, these trade ins have the European "heel"mag release that takes a little getting used to.

I'll echo comments from other posters. Save a few extra dollars and buy a used Glock 17 or 19. If you don't like it, they'll hold their value and resale is easy. These are some of the most reliable and versitile pistols ever made.

I had to use a search engine for SCCY, and I don't know what the Hi Point looks like. If I was looking for a low cost 9mm single stack, I'd go with the Kel-Tec. I had one and had no complaints. Just got to where I never carried or shot it, and moved it out of the safe.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I offered my advice earlier, but after thinking about it and re-reading this post, I have a question . . . If you buy a cheap 9mm handgun, and it doesn't run, will that turn you off the caliber, or just the maker of the handgun? The likelihood that a cheap 9mm handgun won't make you happy is pretty high, so given your parameters, I recommend staying with what ya' brung.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

To clarify on the European style "heel" mag release I attached a photo of my old $12.50 + tax Beretta 70 .32 a.c.p. This plainly shows the mag release on the bottom of the left stock and the corresponding notch on the bottom right side of the magazine.

For Muss Muggins; a Hi-Point looks like a steel Zeppelin with handgun grips. Elephantiasis of the slide for sure.

Lol. Good description, but the bulk is there for a good reason. Being a pure blowback design, the slide mass much be bigger than on a locked breech pistol.

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Release the Kraken

Hi-Point should have tried a little harder, my 70 year old Astra 600/43 is straight blowback 9mm pistol that is quite stylish and functional.

If you want a Hi-Point then by all means buy one. They are not a bad pistol for the price and they have a great warranty.

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Have Gun Will Carry

Thanks Muss,

I thought of the Kel Tec. But I want something more or less for a range gun and not for everyday carry. I have three of them already in my rotation.

I have always wanted (I think I want anyway?) a 9mm. I want to explore the caliber so I do not want to invest a bunch of money per se.

I think the Kel Tec 9 would be too light to use at the range for much fun time. Too snappy! I have a Taurus 738 380 and it is a great carry piece but not one I would want to put 100s of rounds through as a range gun.

My thoughts!

Yours?

Thanks,

rd

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"That is all!"

The Beretta 92 would be a great gun for most any purpose, other than concealing in a Speedo. With shipping and FFL fees, you would be near the $300.00 mark. Inquire about buying spare mags at the same time.

I had a Galco Combat Master CM202(?) holster with my 92F. It rode high on the belt, hugged close to my body, and was very tight and secure.

Some great advice here.......

Me I would save up another $100-200 haunt the LGSs looking for a good used handgun from; S&W,CZ, Beretta, Sig, Glock, etc.

Great way to see and handle some options..... and good deals are out there to be had.....just not everyday...... these days a Police trade is generally a good deal...... carried daily but not shot a lot!!

I hear that HPs do work........ but it won't tell you much about the 9mm round.... as it is a blow-back vs. lock breach design ......... which is rare in a 9mm...... fact is I can't think of another..... OH ya the Beretta CX-4 a 9mm carbine.......

Good Luck......