Charles Daly Hi Power

JayPee

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One of the more well-known pistols among enthusiasts is the Browning Hi Power, Mr. Browning’s last design. Its granddaddy was placed into production as the FN Model P35 in 1935 and it has been made in the millions over the years since then. For instance the German Army captured the FN factory when it overran Belgium in 1940 and produced over a quarter million of these guns for its own use before the war ended in 1945. After the war, FN concentrated mostly on the military market until Browning Arms decided to market the gun in the United States as the Browning Hi Power around 1950. It has been sold here continuously ever since.

By 1970 FN's and Browning’s Patents on the P35 had expired, so the Communist Hungarian arms conglomerate, FÉG, began producing the most faithful copy of the Hi Power ever seen outside of the FN plants in Belgium and Portugal. Completely reverse engineered, FÉG simply called it their Model P9. It was imported into this country during 1985 and 1986, and again from the early 90’s until FÉG declared bankruptcy in 2004. Importers such as Kassnar Imports, KBI, Century International, SSME, and Tennessee Guns International imported the guns under several model numbers. The most prolific of the importers was the Kassnar family’s KBI Inc., which imported them under their in-house model number PJK-9HP, and also as the Charles Daly Hi Power, which is what this story is all about. Here’s a photo of a first issue FEG P9, known as the KBI firm’s PJK-9HP. This is the gun that became the Charles Daly Hi Power discussed in the following paragraphs.



Along about 2006 or so, KBI Inc., came up with a different way to produce and import these guns. They began importing them as unfinished kits which would be finished by contractors in the USA under the banner of the “Charles Daly Hi Power.” The real draw here is that they would be the only mass produced Hi Power ever to have “Made in USA” stamped on them. Unfortunately, it didn’t work. The Charles Daly Hi Power cost more to produce than it sold for, and KBI Inc., lost money on every one they sold. But they are darn good guns that are well worth their money and then some. If you hanker for one or own one, here are some facts that may be helpful to you.

The first finishing contractor for these guns was Dan Wesson Inc., who finished the first 800 units (corrected 5/1/15 from the 500 originally stated) with serial numbers beginning in “HP.” The Dan Wesson guns were provided with dovetail slots set up for Novak style sights made to Browning Hi Power dimensions.

The remainder of the Charles Daly Hi Power production run was finished by Magnum Research, Inc., and carried the serial number prefix “HPM.” The Magnum Research guns had their dovetail slots also set up for Novak style sights, but to the dimensions of the Colt M1911. The Charles Daly pistol in the photos is a Magnum Research "HPM" pistol and the sights are indeed made for the M1911.



OK, so what about the guns. Are they worth anything? Yes, they certainly are. And they’re getting hard to get because their owners know what they have and don’t have much interest in getting rid of them. If you find one in good condition, you have a good gun made to the standards of well-made commonplace pistols, but not to the meticulous standard of finish workmanship found in the Browning gun. Their prices will run between a third and half as much as a new Browning Hi Power, so you can’t expect them to contain that gun’s premium finish work. I’ve owned five of the P9’s marked as CDHP’s and PJK-9HP’s and have never had a malfunction, so I think very well of them.


They came with Uncle Mike's black rubber grips, which are functional but not attractive enough for me, so they were replaced right quick with a set of Herrett’s Cocobolo grips. They come with the FÉG extended safety lever, which is one of the nicest ones around. The sights provided on these guns were big dot express sights, which my old eyes and old habits just couldn’t get the hang of, so I replaced them with a set of adjustable sights from the now-defunct Miniature Machine Company of Las Vegas. The exterior finish is matte all over except for the sides of the slide, and the blue job is more grey blue than black blue. The external polishing of the metal is very well done.





How accurate are they? Every one of them I’ve had were just as accurate as any of the mainstream 9mm’s like the Beretta 92, the Smith and Wesson 5906, and even the Browning Hi Power. If you can handle the sights, the inherent accuracy is there, and most of them have good enough triggers in them to really develop their accuracy potential. And any magazine that will work in the Browning Hi Power will also work in the Charles Daly Hi Power. I don’t think you can go wrong with one if you can handle a single action gun. So if you happen to run into one over at the LGS be careful, they tend to want to follow you home. Hope this information will be helpful to you.

JayPee

PS: How about the double action FÉG Hi Power pistols you see on the gun auction sites? The sellers are badly mistaken - they’re not Hi Powers at all. They were designed as loose but fairly faithful copies of the Smith and Wesson Model 59 and have nothing in common with the Hi Power beyond the Colt/Browning locking system. They’re good guns in their own right; they just aren’t Hi Powers.
 
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That was an interesting write up...thanks/

We rarely see the KCI or Charles Daly guns up here in Canada but an importer brought in a whole bunch of FEG's a couple of years ago and they pop up from time to time on the for sale sites. I also occasionally see one of the Browning counterfeits that FEG were reputed to have made for Iraq. The are often being offered as "Browning Hi-Powers"
 
Sailor, what does a real FN Hi-Power tend to cost in your province or in Canada generally? I know that Browning has included Montreal as a business address in some slide markings.

How do these Hungarian guns compare to the Argentine license-made ones?

Neither seems to have the improved, wider slide at the ejection port of the MK III, which is said to considerably lessen slide cracking in heavy use.

Are all parts on the Hungarian ones supposedly interchangeable with the Belgian guns? With FEG out of business, I'd feel better about buying their version if any parts that break can be replaced with the Browning ones.
 
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Good piece, JayPee. Haven't seen you before over here on this forum, but I've read your stuff elsewhere, especially Decoding the FEG Hi Power. My first HP was a PJK-9HP, and it's very nearly as nicely finished as a Browning, but with a slightly more blue-grey tinge to the bluing. I'm still kicking myself for passing up a Charles Daly I had a chance at last year, but the price started getting near what I could buy a decent Mark III for. They definitely have their following.
 
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New BHP's in LGS's seem to be right around 1050-1100 although with our dollar slipping I suspect they will be over 1200 soon. On the used market nice guns are usually in the 600-800 range. I have a .40 2003 MKIII and a 1977 9mm with target sights that I bought in the last year for around that price point.

I don't really know anything about the Argentinean models. I've never seen one up here but I've read that they are good quality.

As far as i know,most (if not all) parts for the FEG are the same but i am far from an expert. I do remember reading that some require some fitting. The FEG's have a reputation of being a decent gun and very good value. They tend to sell around here at about half the cost of a Browning.

If you want definitive information I would point you towards the Browning sub forum on 1911Forum.com. Some of those guys eat and breathe Hi-Powers
 
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Thanks for the post. I have a CD HiPower, and it is a great pistol. I had an Argie, too, but it was not as well finished as the Daly. As far as I know, Browning parts will interchange with the FEG Daly. FWIW, I replaced the sights on mine with genuine Novaks, and they fit fine.
 
I have some experience with various BHPs, and I like them. Oddly enough, when the CDs were around I had reservations about the XS Big Dot sights.

Now...I like them! Put a set on a G19 and they are just the thing. I can wear any set of glasses, distance, close-up, or in-betweens, and they are usable--and fast.

I would probably jump on a CD if one showed up now.
 
While I believe that the Charles Daly Hi Powers are good if not great clones. When you can pick one up especially one of the early ones for under $400 they are a good deal. I personally do not like the XS big dot sights on the later guns. I do like the grips, Uncle Mikes, on the older pistols. The grips alone are worth $50+ on those guns.

If you can get one at the right price which IMHO is under $400 NIB then you have a winner. When it gets over $400 there are better alternatives.

I think that the BHP market is not as high as many people think it is. I sold a basically NIB BHP MKIII for $725 shipped. You can get a surplus gun for right around $500. It will be a refinished or have an epoxy finish.

This gun can be had for about $525 OTD.

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Many people see the BHP as a high priced guns but if you shop right they can be had much cheaper than the avg LGS tries to sell them at. They are one of my favorite pistols!
 
I had a CD Hi Power. Bought it for around or maybe a little less than $300.00 in late 2007 (maybe 2008?) when CDNN had them. It was a good pistol. I liked the combat hammer & the larger and more positive safety, and I shot pretty well (at least for me) using the XS big dot sights. It was absolutely reliable. I put it on consignment close to two years ago, to help free up some funds for S & W interests, and although it took around 6 months or so to sell, I got my asking price for the pistol, extra magazines, etc., and figure I at least got my money back, and maybe made a little.

When I purchased it, I had read good reviews about it, and thought it was the best opportunity to get a "Hi Power" (Ok, I know it is a clone) for a good price.

Although I don't miss it, I do recommend it if you are interested in a Hi Power clone and the price is right.
 
I really enjoyed my PJK9HP, I also added MMC adjustables- although I struggled a bit getting the proper front sight height to bring the POI down at 25yrds.
It was a great pistol, I foolishly traded it off....though I still have my Arcus 94 at least.
 
I have a Magnum Research built CD Hi Power that I picked up a couple of years ago for $350. It hadn't been used much at all, came in the box with all the papers and 4 13rd mags. It has proven to be a surprisingly good gun, fit and finish are better than average, it shoots great, no issues with several different kinds of ammo and it is plenty accurate.

I did remove the mag disconnect/safety which improved the trigger considerably. After a complete tear down, thorough cleaning and lube, the trigger pull is clean and crisp and I'd guess around 4.5-5lbs when compared to my 1911s with known trigger pull weights. I also deepened the detents for the thumb safety because it was kind of mushy without a positive on/off 'click'. It's still not as good as a 1911 but much improved, with some resistance and a click when flipping it on and off. I replaced the thick stock rubber grips with a set of the thin Navidrex grips from Brownell's, they narrow the grip considerably, and make it more comfortable in my hand.

I'm one of those guys that can't shoot a HP without getting chewed up by the hammer so I replaced the stock one with a C&S No-Bite Hammer. That thing is truly a God-send. While I enjoyed shooting the gun before, I had to alter my grip so I wouldn't get bit and I was always nervous about it. Heck, I'd catch the web of my hand just racking the slide most times. With the new hammer I can grip it normally and shoot it without fear of getting bit, it is wonderful. The gun is easy to shoot and recoil is negligible. HPs won't be replacing my 1911s any time soon but I'll be keeping this one around and would buy another one if the right deal came along.

Our 13y/o is on the small side but has finally grown enough to start shooting matches with me. He used the CDHP to shoot in his first USPSA Action Pistol match last Sunday. He did very well, was safe, remembered everything I'd shown him about using the safety, and most importantly, he had a great time. The gun ran great for him, no issues whatsoever.

As JayPee said, these a great guns for the money. True to the HP design, well built from quality parts, accurate and reliable. A very good way to get into a HP without spending Browning money. I'm very happy with mine.

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WC-145----

Thanks for the heads up on the no-bite hammer. Have the same problem with a Browning HP. The gun tries to kill at both ends. I exaggerate a bit but it is an annoying fault in an otherwise great pistol.

I know that Browning himself did not complete the design as he died in the middle of it. Dieudonné Saive finished the gun and must have had real boney hands. My guess is that if they had experienced hammer bite, they wudda fixed it.
 
The C&S hammer is so worth the investment. It completely changed the gun's personality, instead of being wary of getting bit I was able to grip it normally and enjoy shooting it. The difference is night and day.

It is not difficult to change it out yourself. I used this tutorial - Big JoeSki's blog: The Browning Hi-Power, Assembly and Disassembly, and a little rant. - and everything went pretty easy, though it can be a bit difficult to hold the sear in the right spot against spring tension and get the pin in place when putting it back together. Everything in my CDHP was the same as shown in the pics except I had already removed the mag disconnect.
 
I did remove the mag disconnect/safety which improved the trigger considerably. After a complete tear down, thorough cleaning and lube, the trigger pull is clean and crisp and I'd guess around 4.5-5lbs when compared to my 1911s with known trigger pull weights. I also deepened the detents for the thumb safety because it was kind of mushy without a positive on/off 'click'. It's still not as good as a 1911 but much improved, with some resistance and a click when flipping it on and off. I replaced the thick stock rubber grips with a set of the thin Navidrex grips from Brownell's, they narrow the grip considerably, and make it more comfortable in my hand.


How is the best way to deepen the detents? Will drill bits work? What size? Thanks.
 
The FEG P9 is a very faithful clone of the pre-Mk II high power with 100% parts commonality with the FN Hi Power.

The first generation P9M is very close - the primary difference is a new slide stop and large 3 dot sights, although I've also seen stock FEG P9s with larger 3 dot sights as well.

You'll find P9s and P9Ms with both spur and round hammers, and FEG seems to have used them more or less interchangeably. You'll also find them in both very nicely polished and blued finishes and more military bead blasted and blued or parked finishes, depending on who ordered them.

In both cases C&S parts will fit with a normal amount of hand fitting.

I have a first gen P9M as well as a P9 and they are both excellent shooters - as reliable as my Mk III FN Hi Power.

My P9M got an SFS kit from C&S, which uses the same parts as the FN SFS pistols. My P9 was modified with an addition of an extended safety.

Both pistols needed only the normal level of hand fitting that is required with any FN Hi Power when you're installing new safety parts.

The second Gen P9M uses an S&W locking system and it has very low parts commonality with an FN Hi Power. Unfortunately KBI called all P9, 1st and 2nd gen P9M pistols "PJK-9HP",and TGI imported them all as the "P9M".

There is also the double action "P9R", which has much more in common with an S&W 459 than a Hi Power.

This is my P9 just home from the gun show, before it got decent grips and an extended safety.

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