I own one. The Smith & Wesson Model 745. Only lasted four years (1986-1990). Picked this one up for $350.00. I like it, but it never caught on.

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I type. Therefore I am.

I've got two, a S&W 439 and 539. The 439 has an alloy frame, the 539 a carbon steel frame. When the stainless 639 came out, it ended sales of the other two I think only about 1800 nickle plated 539s were made. Probably the same fate happened to the 459 and 559.

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Here are some Iver Johnsons that didn't make it. The first is the Iver Johnson Pony in 380 caliber. It was a Star design, I forget the nomenclaure. Colt was interested in it, but finally IJ made a few.

Second pictures shows, clockwise from the top, an Iver Johnson TP 22, somewhat modified copy of the Walther TPH, and an IJ TP 25. The bottom pistol is the Iver Johnson Compact 25, built on an Iver Johnson frame using Bernadelli Baby parts. The frame is a TP 25; evidently there were quite a few of these that never got made into pistols, as I've seen a shoebox full of them at a gun show a few years ago.

Production of all these pistols was quite limited, as Iver Johnson was on its last legs.

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Had a couple of the TP-22's as backup guns. Neither was reliable and they went away.

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I am a sheep dog!
1601 (ret)

I had a TP-22 and it was 100% reliable with hyper velocity ammo only.

I remember that period of the 80s and 90s quite vividly. It seemed that gunmakers, especially S&W, were coming out with a new gun every week and Combat Handguns, a magazine I once enjoyed reading, hailed each new model and sub-model as the greatest thing since tighty-whities. Those in the market for a handgun were left with their heads spinning. Decide on exactly what you want, then wait a week for yet another flavor of the same handgun to hit market.

Jeff Cooper endorsed a 10mm handgun by a company called Dornier and Dixon and for which you could not get magazines, even if your were Jeff Cooper. A full-house 10mm was the equivalent of a 41 Magnum and few could handle it as a duty cartridge.

I had one back in the early 80s, but did not fire it much. No reliability problems that I remember. Sold it to one of my employees who wanted it for his wife.

The Colt All American 2000, the Chauchat of handguns.

A friend had one. It quite literally had the worst trigger pull of ANY handguns I've EVER shot. It stacked, and stacked, and stacked, and just when you thought the trigger was going to snap in half, it went off.

The trigger aside, I seem to recall it having other accuracy problems as well.

It was also the basis of their doomed "smart gun".

It was a total disaster, from start to finish.

Totally agree, my son just had to have one. I swear it would shoot around corners, and to make matters worse he traded off a Mark II Bull Barrel Ruger for it.

Many years ago the LGS had one on the shelf. It sat there for a very long time, I don't know if they ever did sell it. You couldn't give me one for free.

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Common sense isn't so common.

I suppose that you could put it in the category of a "last ditch" Arisaka or one of the monstrosities made up for the Volkssturm. They're something you'd never shoot, but might collect if you were interested in that kind of thing.

Such a collection might include:

• Colt All American 2000
• Rogak P-18
• Kimball .30 Carbine pistol
• Bryco/Jennings of whatever sort
• RG revolvers

I remember the initial magazine reviews for that gun were glowing. That thought me something about gun magazines.

I hang on to mine mainly because of the 15 rnd mags in CA. It's not that bad a gun I don't think. Been a safe queen like most of my guns anyway.

Like Colt says don't oil the rollers on the trigger. Tell you friend to blast the rollers with a cleaner and then lube with a dry Teflon. Makes the trigger pretty decent for the gun's intended purpose.

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9tenz

The Steyr GB comes to mind...one of the "wonder nines" of the 80's. I had one, it was a big gun. It held 18+1 and didn't shoot bad.

It was descended from the Rogak P-18. Both were gas delayed blowback.

"Soldier of Fortune" did a less than glowing review of the Rogak, the finale of which was a picture of the reviewer throwing it downrange like a boomerang.

The Bren Ten was the name of the 10mm. I believe it was the first 10mm, and was based off the CZ75 that was then rare in the United States. To get a real CZ75 you had to buy it through Canada back then, as the Czechs were still Commies and we did not trade with them.

The Jennings .22 is still made. It is now the JA-22. I actually have one, purchased just before I left SC. Mine works fine though the finish wears rapidly. They were regionally popular in Beaufort as tacklebox guns.

I miss the 940 steel J frame and its temperamental moon clips.

The Czech made Springfield M6 survival guns were also interesting and I had one in .22Hornet.

You got that backwards, the Styer came first with the Rogak attempting to make a cheap copy.

No, that's not quite correct either.

As I mentioned in my previous post...the Steyr was designed first. But, before Steyr was able to bring the GB to market, Rogak had acquired a copy of the plans, and began manufacturing the P-18. It was poorly manufactured, and was a failure. Then came the Steyr, which ultimately failed, doubtless in some part due to the association with the Rogak.

So...they're both a result of the Steyr design. But, the Rogak was first to the market (at least in the U.S.)

I'd forgotten that part of the story - you're correct.

I bought a BG a few years back, hard to get in CA. It was a face to face deal and the 18 round mags were a no-no in CA. I persuaded the seller to mail them to my OR address, I even provided the postage and packaging and volunteered to bring it to the post office.

Funny, Numrich carried Rojak magazines for about $35.00 back then and I got the last few. Managed to modify them enough to work in the GB. I think GB mags are the most expensive I've ever seen - makes old Coonans seem cheap.

I remember those. A Lieutenant in our local PD carried one for a while. Those things were so big they had their own zip code.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I miss my STEYR GB, but sold it to buy something I NEEDED MORE - I sold it for enough to get what I needed + had enough left over to buy - This DA/SA, SARSILMAZ 2000, Turkish Stainless CZ-75B Clone - to replace my Steyr GB. So far it has been a great choice.

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Back in the mid 90s, I bought a Beretta Mini Cougar in 9mm. Very nice gun, and at the time, was considered a great 'compact' size for 9mm. I never really got into that gun, and it a bit wide at the hips for carry, so it just sat in the safe. I sold it a few years ago, and got about all of my money back out of it. I guess the Cougar line still exists as Stoegers. But, technically, Beretta stopped making them, and I'm not sure if a Mini Cougar is made by Stoeger?

A couple of comments from the other posts:
Checkman, that's a great looking M745! Back in the day, I came real close to buying one of those, they are very nice guns. But, given the choice, I just couldn't choose the 745 over a nice Colt 1911. Still have that Colt, and many others...

Cmort, I love Colts, have a bunch of them, and have always had an interest in buying a 2000. But, holy God, every time I tried a trigger on one of those guns, I was so disgusted I just walked away! Even as a pure collectable purchase, I just couldn't bring myself to buy one. Absolutely horrible trigger!

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NRA Life Member

I bought a Beretta Mini Cougar in 9mm about 20 years ago and love it. Took it to qualify for Conceal carry forgetting it was DAO.
I'm glad I love DA shooting. Great gun.

Another one I just thought of was the Marlin Camp Carbine. As a teenager, I used to hunt with one back in the 80s, and liked it. They don't make them anymore, but they were a cool gun.

I saw one at a gun show a couple of years ago. It was in 9mm, and NIB condition, and priced very reasonably from a private seller/aged-accumulator. I was there right as the doors opened, and I was going to buy it right then and there, but wanted to look down the aisle to see if there were any hidden S&W gems before I spent my gun money. Well, by the time I walked back to get the Marlin --- WAIT-FOR-IT --- it was already sold...! ;(. Hey, that's life at the gun show!!

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NRA Life Member

I've got one of those funky .45s in stainless.




Also an '80s second Gen Wonder Nine.


Don't know why I'm holding on to these.

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Memory of Randy Freas-Rimfired

I have one. I wish i had bought a warehouse full of them in the 90's. (look at that retail price under $300)I'd be rich today. Great guns. highly desired still today. Takes Smith & Wesson pistol magazines , 5900,6900 series

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S&W BG380, S&W 915 9mm

Anything made by Jennings/Bryco.

I have one of their paper weights around here somewhere....

I've got one of them Jennings J-22 paper weights, worst gun i ever had

They show up all the time as Government's Exhibit 1 . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

"The Bren Ten was the name of the 10mm."
It could also be converted to .45 ACP. The current EAA Witness (by Tanfoglio of Italy) is about as close as you can get to the old Bren. Quite a story exists surrounding the checkered history of the Bren Ten. I've had an EAA Witness in .45 ACP for about 10 years, along with slide, magazines, and barrels for .38 ACP and 9mm. Caliber switching is a snap. A truly excellent and well-made handgun, but quite heavy in the all-steel version.

Another Colt that went away for a different reason than the 2000. The pocket nine.

I've shot one. Great gun. Would be more popular than reality TV nowadays. Production got shut down after a few thousand guns due to a patent lawsuit, won by Kahr.

I've got a nib Pocket Nine tucked away in my safe alongside another design that got killed off too soon, the Browning BDM

If I ever find one of those at at affordable price it WILL come home with me.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

S&W 619 & 620s were 2005 editions that didn't stay in the production line-up long. I had 2 620s but sold one to a pal. Still have one and it is a real shooter. Other than the lock, these were worthy successors to mod 65 and 66 but I guess they didn't sell or there wasn't enough profit in them. The 620 is a 7 shot .357 with the cut away underlug it has the look of a mountain gun.

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God spelled backwards is dog.

There was a 4-caliber conversion set based on a Mauser HSc lookalike. By switching bbl/slide assemblies and magazines, the gun could fire .22LR, and .25, .32, and .380ACP. Guess it was overdone. Introduced in the 70s.

Mas Ayoob was fond of the Security Industries stainless snub revolvers and wrote them up very positively. They seemed to disappear quietly, don't know why.

The American Rifleman did an article not too long ago on firearm developments that didn't catch on. Not good for large firms, it's especially unfortunate when an individual puts his faith, time, and above all, money into a concept that falls short.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

H&K P-4. They're collector's items now.

These are very good revolvers. I think they suffered from coming out at a time when there was a mad scramble toward semiautomatics by law enforcement and general public.

Medium frame revolvers were just not the rage at that time and for those that liked them, there were a lot of Model 66s, 686s, ... in circulation.

And...having the lock didn't help. There were some real hard feelings about the lock in those days.

Wow! The list is so long. Guns that never caught on enough to continue production;
I thought they were ok, but apparently these never 'caught on' enough that anybody thought they should continue producing them: Colt Python, Anaconda, Agent, Detective Special, S&W 610, 620, 60 no dash, Ruger MkII...

Just kidding. I know this isn't what the OP meant...or is it?

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But then, what do I know?

I could be wrong, but I think "Sonny Crockett" carried two of the guns mentioned here in that upside down holster on Miami Vice. The S&W .45 and the Bren Ten. I know Don Johnson was given a S&W .45 auto by Rolling Stone Ron Wood.

Besides the All American, Colt had a double action "1911".....I forget its name, Double Eagle?, but a dog. Colt also had the Colt Cowboy. Yuk.


Colt also had a series of economy revolvers such as Detective special but without polishing, without any refinements, just
horrible. Company kept trying to get into the gun of the month
act with cut rate garbage, hoping the Colt name was enough to sell them.

Ruger .357 Maximum

Remington economy rifles with locking lugs in the rear of the bolt instead of the front.

The COP

Forget its name but a blowback 9 mm with a slide and spring
weighing and designed for a major work truck.

Sounds like the Stallard/Hi Points, which are made here.

People say the work, but I can't imagine why I'd want to get one of those if I could get ANYTHING else, be it a Makarov, a Helwan, a CZ52, or a Walther P-1. And that doesn't include police trade-in Smith revolvers.

There have been a number of previous attempts to make pure blowback firearms more powerful than 9x18mm Makarov, most of them failures, including:

• Walther Model 6 - Heavy recoil spring
• 9mm Dreyse - Heavy recoil spring able to be decoupled from the slide for loading
• LeFrancais Armee Pistolet - Heavy recoil spring combined with a tip up barrel for loading
• Astra M400/M600 - Heavy recoil spring

The only one of these which could in ANY way be considered "successful" was the Astra.

The Hi Point is conceptually similar to the German attempt to turn the He-177 heavy bomber into a "dive bomber". Yeah, they did it... But WHY, and to what better effect than a Ju-87 or an SBD? What does a Hi Point do better than a P-1?

Probably the best example of a successful 9mm blowback design pistol is the Astra 400/600. Extremely well made and durable. But with very jarring recoil, and not pleasant to shoot. And any owner of one is advised to resist the temptation to disassemble it.

IIRC the biggest issue with those was that they were way more accurate than anybody expected and they started taking sales from the 700. Of course, the anti-rear locking Mafia got vocal about them, too. Rear locking never seemed to be a problem with the Lee-Enfield, MAS 36 or Madsen 1948, but that's just me bothering folks with facts again.

As for the Steyr GB, it was doomed when it lost to the Beretta 92 in the DoD competition. My milspec example shoots just fine in SA, but the DA trigger is overly heavy.

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Release the Kraken

I'd be careful how I said that around mountain folks...they might think you are referring to the 788.

You'll start hearing banjo music and a big sweaty hairy hillbilly will walk up to you and just kinda stare at you for a minute...then say "Boy, you are lost now aint ya????"

Of course the rest aint so good after that!!!

Colt made only one model as you described.
It was a Colt Agent, rough polish, and with a parkerized finish. These were made during the prolonged labor strike at Colt

It was not a Detective Special, which was always a steel frame revolver. The Cobra and the Agent were aluminum alloy frame revolvers.

That would be correct. AFAIK. The Bren Ten for sure.

===================

The Astra Constable comes to mind. Walther PPK replica. I had one for awhile. Never shot it.

I'm not sure when Beretta made their Model 70 in .22 and I think .380 caliber. But the Cheetah series replaced it, I beleive.

I have one but no picture.

Then there is the SIG P 230. Gorgeous gun.

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Come and take it!!

No, but that is pretty funny.

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I type. Therefore I am.

Funny stuff, but I was referencing handguns that were introduced during that time period and never caught on.

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I type. Therefore I am.

Ruger PC4 and PC9 pistol caliber carbines. Originally produced for police dept to match Ruger handguns and share magazines. After the Miami shootout most pd dropped the pistol caliber carbine in favor of AR platform. PCs are pretty collectable, especially the early production models marked Police Carbine.

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God spelled backwards is dog.

Ruger started making them again in 9/40 take-down version

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S&W BG380, S&W 915 9mm