Les, I'm a George Smith Patton guy.

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Well, me too. In fact that's what led me too Monty. I have read numerous books about Patton, always had great admiration for his leadership style, but was struck by the way that the movie "Patton" showed GSP always at loggerheads with Monty, so I thought I should learn a little about Monty.

Nigel Hamilton, the author of the three volume biography, had unlimited access to Monty's papers and effects, and had many opportunities to meet with and interview Monty before his death. I have also obtained Monty's autobiography, written by him entirely with pencil and paper and typed by secretaries inter his supervision. After extensive research into the supposed rivalry between these two men, I can only conclude that they, in their very different ways, we're both great men. Each had flaws, of course, but each had great leadership qualities, each was equally flamboyant and egocentric, and each was capable of instilling great loyalty in his men. I also don't think that either fully understood the other, and could never see the value of the others vision. If these two men had been able to cooperate better, they might have shaved a year off of the European conflict.

At any rate, I highly recommend these three volumes to your attention. My picture of Monty before was largely that of the movie Patton. He certainly had his flaws, but was great in his own way.

Best Regards, Les

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Les I agree with what you've said. I sometimes wonder how we won with so much animosity between the allies and the services involved.

Back on track. I've been looking for a Webley Mark IV in .38 S&W and the prices are crazy. Forget about anything in .455 uncut. I am now going to consult "the book" and find out about "war finish".
I might look at Enfield, but I don't like the bobbed hammer.

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"from my cold dead hands" C.H.

I found my MK VI that had been shaved while I was talking to a guy at the barbershop!!! He had picked it up in a trade, and was wanting to let it go at a reasonable price. When I got it I had not had a Webley since the MK IV 38 that I had got when I was a teenager for I think $16.00 or so. Anyway, I was a little hesitant because, number one, I wasn't really looking for one, and number two, if I was, I would have liked to have gotten an un modified one. But I had just picked up a really nice colt 1917, and was reloading .45 Auto Rims for it, so I had the wherewithal to feed it a proper diet of lower pressure loads, and I went ahead and bought it. I don't regret getting it, although if an uncut one were to turn up at a decent price, I would jump on it.

Anyway, if you see a decent modified MK VI, and the price is right, and it is in good shape, and has not been abused... No high power rounds through it... I would go for it. A really nice revolver, even if not shooting the original cartridge. Remember the .455 operated at lower pressure than the .45 ACP, so even though you can shoot .45 ACP with moon clips, I wouldn't recommend it unless you load some down in pressure so as not to stress.i think mine was proofed at "6 Tons", or 12,000 pounds per square inch, and the .45 ACP is considerably higher than that, if I remember correctly.

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Les, I'm going outside to the backyard storage shed, man cave of sorts, and get my "Monty" biography (Nigel Hamilton) back out for refresher course on a great Brit Leader. I'm a firm General Patton guy but, like yourself, found great and interesting qualities in General Montgomery, well worth the study of. Thanks for a great post.

David

Texas Star:

I don't know if we can do this or not, but I'm going to try anyway:


i just started to watch the movie, looks like it's going to be a good one. Now that we're all in a Webley mood!!

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Les-

Thanks so much for posting that! It's a really good film. The ladies here may like the developing romance between the captain and the little Indian prince's governess, an American lady. (Lauren Bacall).

Watch sharply, and you may see that MK VI transform itself into either a MK I or maybe a Webley-Green in one or two scenes. Look for the added frame length ahead of the trigger guard.

You are wise to load down your shaved MK VI. The .45ACP at normal pressure operates at more than PROOF pressures for .455 revolver. (There was also a .455 Webley auto, and some 1911 Colts were also chambered for that round. Over 10,000 were sold to Britain in WWI, mainly for the RFC/RAF and the Royal Navy . The Royal Flying Corps became the Royal AF in 1918.)

I read Montgomery's autobiography as a teen. He had his good points, and I enjoyed the part where he told of officers being sent to have their swords sharpened in 1914. But Monty seemed unarmed in all WWII pics. Patton was the reverse. I preferred Patton's attitude on that score. I don't like the trend for US generals to look unarmed, even in combat zones.
In Vietnam, Westmoreland wore his famous ivory -handled Randall knife, and I think had a .45 on his other side. Anyone know?

Let me know if you like that movie. Spoiler: There may be a person on that train who is on the Muslim side! See if you can guess who.

You can even make the film into a drinking game. Every time you see a No. 4 Lee-Enfield instead of an earlier rifle, take a drink. But don't plan to drive that night...

Look for the barrel sticking out ahead of the front sight for a quick ID. I was looking for things like that by the time I was 13. I've gotten pretty good at it.

But as British generals went, look at Field Marshal Lord Slim, Viscount Slim of Burma. With relatively modest numbers of troops and supplies, Sir Wm. Slim recaptured Burma from the Japanese. As a general, he was better than Monty. He just didn't get as much press coverage. Orde Wingate was also a skilled leader, especially brilliant in his use of special operations troops. But he died too early in a plane crash. Look for a photo of him with a No. 4 rifle on his sling, about to board a plane. The only other picture I've seen of a general carrying a rifle into battle is of US paratroop general Gavin.
He also wore a .45 and a Randall Model 1 knife.

Les, you da man! Thanks for another "all star" posting with "Flame Over India", just into it and see all kinds of Brit ordnance on display. Texas and yourself really dress this Enfield/Webley posting fine and proper!

David

Tex, I had forgotten about Lord Slim. He was a tough nut in a forgotten theater (CBI) of the war. My uncle was a "Hump Pilot" and was not pleased with being left until Germany was almost finished. He did understand the necessity of that strategy though.
Les, I am going to see if Netflix has that movie to stream. Funny, I once thought that meant a fishing spot.

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"from my cold dead hands" C.H.

"Flame over India" or as original British title "North West Frontier" is not on Netflix or Amazon Prime. So, ya'll can see it here thanks to Les & Tex.

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Well, I was surprised to find I have the YouTube on my electric TV. Watching movie now.

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Yeah, me too, watching through my Roku box, streaming to the hi-def tv. Bunch of old timers, sitting around watching movies made when we were teenagers, about guns that were made before we were born, on technology that is cutting edge. Here's a screen shot taken on my iPad from 37 min and 47 seconds into the movie. Webley MK VI?



Ain't life grand??? It's raining here at the cabin, and there's a wild tom turkey about 20 feet away, earring the seed that the birds knock out of the feeder.

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Here's Genrral Gavin's jump suit at the West Point museum. I think it says something abou the man; a completely GI jump suit, just like any other paratrooper, but worn with two stars.

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Not standing out and carrying a rifle probably made him a less conspicuous target.

Well, if that's not a MK VI, it's a heck of a good actor! It has me fooled.

Les, hadn't seen "Flame Over India" in a long while. Great movie with great guns and great actors! Don't get better than this! Thanks my friend for that great posting!

David

Well, Texas was the one who remembered it, I just posted it. But I agree, that was a good movie. I had forgotten all about it, but after I started watching it, bits and pieces started to come back, but not enough to spoil it. What a treasure trove of Brit militarization, even if some of it was a little off period.

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All through the movie, I kept thinking that Van Leyden looked familiar, it just dawned on me: he is Commissioner Dreyfus, inspector Clouseau's boss in the "Pink Panther" movies!!!


I know that I should grow up, but I still think those movies are hilarious. Sorry, I know that this has nothing to do with Enfields. Couldn't help myself.

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Found this one of General James Gavin. Not only has a full sized Garand, but is wearing a .45 as well. I will link for some more of those you mentioned, Texas:



I think this is the one you mentioned with Orde Wingate:

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Yes, that's the one of Wingate with a No. 4 rifle. Note the webbing holster on the other officer. Wingate's revolver is on his other side, I guess. They usually wore them crossdraw.

Gavin wore the Randall Model 1 knife opposite his .45. There's a good pic of him sitting at a field conference with Maj. Gen. Ridgeway in Normandy. You can see the knife well, the retaining strap unsnapped. Probably came open by mistake. He wasn't about to need the knife urgently, and wouldn't want to risk loss.

Hmmm...Now that I think, the knife may be worn behind his holster. Many Army Rangers wore their Fairbairn knives that way.

Wow fellas! Its kinda hard to follow the "lightening & thunder" that is your last two posts. This just keeps getting better and better! My thanks for such wonderful posts.

David

Just saw, "Flame Over India" again. Look at 1:16-17 and at 2:02. The Webley is now a shorter barreled one, a MK I maybe where Scott searches the station and on the train roof, maybe a MK IV or V. Anyone else notice that?

Les, thanks for posting the film link.

Yes, Texas, I noticed that. I saw that he didn't have a lanyard securing his revolver when he had the MK VI, must have lost it and could only find an older model to replace it!!!

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For a nice overview of the wartime generals you might try "Churchill's Generals" by John Keegan. Each chapter devoted to a different man, the narrative surprising in the amount of detail. Whets the appetite.

We have the hardback edition. Companion volume to "Stalin's Generals" and "Hitler's Generals." There's a book out named "Roosevelt's Centurions" with the same theme but I don't know if it's part of the series.

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Thanks for the heads up, Bryan.... I found a nice used hardback copy of the Churchills Generals book on Amazon for a very reasonable price, just ordered it as soon as I saw your post. I think we share some of the same reading tastes as well as both having Bankers Specials!!!

Some of the books from my office at the college I teach at.... The whole place is much messier than your shelves look.... But we obviously have an interest in Churchill:



When the shelves fill up, they start piling up on the floor around me:



When the shelves and floor are full, they spill over onto the credenza:



One of my other interests is Russia and Russian history, so I have a few books on that subject as well:



And a few on firearms as well.



Texas Star, David, and now you, have all made excellent suggestions about books to add to the shelves recently. I thank all of you, and am seeking every day to learn more about some of my hobbies, historical and professional interests.

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Les-

I see that you have Haven & Belden's, A History of the Colt Revolver. (1836-1940). That's a real gem. I wish more people on gun boards had read it. It answers many Colt questions.

As for movie and TV guns, sometimes they change between scenes in the same episode! Sloppy prop men, I guess, and they don't think the public notices.

In the series, The Lost World (1999-2002), Rachel Blakely had, I think, three different revolvers. May have depended on what the prop house had on a given day that at least resembled the others. Lord Roxton switched from a Colt .45 auto to a pair of nickeled Webley MK VI's with white grips in shoulder holsters. Of course, he could have easily had both with him if the show had been real, and just carried what he favored on a given day. MK IV .38's filled in for other MK VI's, I think, as the MK IV.38 wasn't made until 1927, and the show was set from 1919-1922. Prof. Challenger's Colt .45 SAA was consistent, and the actor said that he liked the gun because he's fond of American Western movies! (He's a New Zealander.)

It had more Webleys in it than any other TV show in recent memory. Episodes can be found on YouTube, as well as many fan videos. If you see the Second Season episode, "Trophies", look for villain Avery Burton (Peter O'Brien) using a Ruger Blackhawk in lieu of a Colt SAA. The adjustable sights are the tip-off. The scene is when he captures heroine Veronica. I can post a video clip, but am not sure if it's okay for this board, as her jungle girl costume might not pass the Rules limitations. BTW, you can also see her knife well in that sequence, when she stabs it into a table top as she surrenders. Looks like a Fairbairn dagger, but has a leather or wooden handle.

Texas: thanks for the heads up. You can probably see from all the time I spend on this board, how rigorous my job is. Well, I can always justify some of my time as "research", since one of my long time courses is called "firearms", and I learn a lot of stuff on here every day!!! Colts are one of my passions after Smiths, and before my newfound interest in Webleys and Enfields. I have a small "shooting" collection of Colts, a lot of snubbies and a few automatics, my oldest colt is a really nice 1877 "Lightning" in 38 long colt. It is one of the few guns that I own that I have not fired yet. I have 2 boxes of empty brass, and I guess I could use 38 spl dies, since it is just a shorter version of the 38 spl. But everyone says that they are delicate, and mine functions perfectly. Sooner or later, I'll shoot it.

I'm going to make it a point to check out the series that you mentioned above, "The Lost World", it sounds really interesting. I have the book, well, I have most everything that A. Conan Doyle wrote, including that. Didn't they make a stand alone movie out of that story once? Sounds familiar, but I can't remember. Look how long it took me to figure that van Leyden was Commissioner Dreyfus in the "Pink Panther"!!! I'll let you know what I think as soon as I check it out!!!

Edit: just checked Amazon Prime, I can watch the old movie "The Lost World", for free.... Well, I may have to try that out also!!! (Think I've seen it, but can't recall when, must have been awhile ago. Has Jill St. John in it, so can't be all bad)!!!

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Les-

"The Lost World" book appeared in 1912 and was one of several featuring Prof. Challenger, a character that Doyle actually preferred to his Sherlock Holmes. Challenger was based on his own medical school prof, a terrible egotist and all-round discriminating, sarcastic boor.

The first movie version was in 1925 and there have been about five, and three T V series based on the book. I saw the one from 1960, and agree that Jill St . John was the highlight. She is, BTW, exceptionally intelligent. I think I read that she's a literal genius, as well as a superb actress. Quite old now, of course. BTW, that film has Michael Rennie, the actor whom I pictured mentally as James Bond when I read the books before the first Connery movie appeared.

All of these movies and TV shows differed some from the book. The best, by far (I think), was the Aussie TV series from 1999-2002. Was shown in re-runs in many nations since. It's still on in some countries. I think it's on satellite TV now in the UK. The cast is by far the best of any of these, The Lost World (TLW) endeavors. They had great rapport, on and off screen. The guest stars were also usually good, among the better Australian actors. The series was made by the same group that produced, The Beastmaster and, Xena, but had better financing and better actors and plots. Two of the stars, Rachel Blakely and Lara Cox, did have rare guest roles on their other series.

Rachel played the main heroine, mysterious heiress and double agent Marguerite Krux, pronounced as Crew. She resisted Lord Roxton's advances for a season or two, with many sarcastic, witty remarks. But she mellowed and they became a couple. Veronica Layton (played by the sole American in the cast, Jennifer O'Dell) had a huge treehouse, where the expedition lived after their balloon crashed on the weird plateau in Brazil. Heroine Finn (Lara Cox) didn't appear until the Third Season, where she provided the cheesecake for awhile when Aussie Tax laws limited the number of eps in which foreign actors could appear without the producers paying added taxes.(!) When Jen returned, she and Lara got on well, and the characters bonded as almost sisters. Lara was in just 8 episodes, but gained a lot of male fans! She's an excellent , versatile actress, and fakes a US accent well, as she did in the DVD movie, "The Marine 2". NOT to be confused with the awful, "The Marine." Get "The Marine 2! "

The guy who played Challenger is a New Zealander who is, I believe, a trained Shakespearean actor and by far the best film Challenger. He mellowed as the series progressed, and became more likeable. The main male role was for Roxton, a much more heroic man than the one in the book, where I feel Doyle demeaned hunters in creating the character. BTW, Doyle knew almost nothing about firearms, and this was reflected in his Holmes books as well as in, The Lost World. The TV series did far better. Will Snow did a good job as Roxton, and was VASTLY admired by female viewers, who were very vocal about him on the Official New Line Cinema fan board and in other TLW fan boards. They overwhelmingly favored the sarcastic, scheming Marguerite over the blondes. I think men often preferred the blondes. I was a big fan of both Jen and Lara and their roles.


BTW, Rachel Blakely is half American. Her dad is American, and her sister lives now also in the US. Their mom was Australian, and when she died when Rachel was 12, Rachel stayed in Oz and identifies herself as Australian. She does get on well with her dad and sis and has visited them in the USA. Her long term partner is the guy who was the stunt director for the series. I think they live in Queensland and have two kids.

If you can still find all of the episodes on YouTube, do. Changes with copyright claims...But there are MANY fan videos that'll give you a look at the characters. Check under the actors' names as well as the show title. I have all three seasons on DVD. A guilty pleasure: one of the few TV series of which I was a real fan. But some episodes were silly, and some were excellent.

Most fan videos are set to music or are in the original English of the show. But some are dubbed in languages as varied as French, German, Czech, and Russian. Fan Fiction stories attract readers in AT LEAST 60 nations.

You're my hero! I'd love to "have a nosey" around your library. Love books, reading books, collecting books. Mostly history and literature from from prior to about World War I. We have a library room but book cases have overflowed to some of the other rooms of the house. The firearms library is in the gun/reloading room.

Our library can get quite messy at times. We had a bit less than 1500 volumes on hand when we moved in 2008. Of course a few more have come to roost in the shelves since that time.

This photo was snapped to show a new second bath we had just installed in our 118+ year-old house three years ago but was taken in the library. We never watch TV. We read, watch old films, listen to music, and play on forums.

Fantastic!! That's the life! I very seldom watch "conventional" tv. I have discovered the joys of occasionally watching old movies that are available on Amazon Prime and other streaming video sources. Mostly I read, history, especially military and British and (I don't know why) Russian history. I was a lit major as an undergraduate, and my love for Victorian and Edwardian lit is still one of the orbits of my reading universe. Everyone likes Dickens, but if you haven't tried him, Anthony Trollope is one of my favorites. I have all of his novels, and most of his short stories.

I love your library! Wouldn't mind poking around there, either!!!

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Have always loved American history and also greatly enjoy studying British, European, and a smattering of Roman history.

Love Dickens, Trollope, Thackeray, Eliot, Hardy, and especially Doyle's Holmes. Fairly recently red "The Egoist" by George Meredith and found it entertaining in a Trollope/Thackeray sort of way.

American authors aren't left out here either however much into the 20th Century and I find many to be too coarse for my tastes.

Holmes was one of my earliest passions, I remember reading a small leather bound edition of "A Study in Scarlet", that belonged to my father when I was still in grade school. It sparked a lifelong fondness for Holmes. In my opinion, the "Anotated Sherlock Holmes" is the most enjoyable edition, with the notations on every page with photos of locales and coinage and every sort of victoriana that one can imagine. William S. Baring-Goulde, (I think, I'm not at home now, so I'm going by memory on the spelling). I think that although it is out of print, one can still obtain copies through abebooks. I've probably read the "canon" 25 or 30 times over the last 55 years or more. In my opinion, the best film adaptations were those of Jeremy Brett. Unfortunately he passed away before he could complete the entire body of work. When I was ordering the Churchill book you recommended earlier today, I saw that Amazon has the series on bluray at last, and at a reasonable price! I may have to indulge myself!!

David: I apologize for the thread drift!!!

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Les-

I agree that Brett was the best film Holmes. Didn't know that he'd died.

I think you guys need to at least watch the news, especially on Fox, regardless of whether you care for the fictional series. I just quit watching,"Supergirl" for reasons that I can't place here. But it's vital to see the news, even if we don't often agree with the talking heads. We need an informed nation. And current events should always be of interest. They may affect our lives. It's important to stay tuned in, and not just about approaching hazardous weather.

I read history etc., but am a real fan of detective stories, inc. the better erotic thriller movies, like, "Basic Instinct" ,"Wild Things " and the book series like Robt. B. Parker's and those by John Sandford. Bryan would probably find some of this too "coarse" for him. Tastes differ.

I do look for accurate gun info in all books and movies and TV series that I watch or read. Many of the war books show the small arms in use, and some Ballantine or Bantam war paperbacks include excellent sketches.

We now return you to the original thread, ha!

Yes, sorry for the thread drift. It's those British revolvers featured in this thread that caused it.

Even Dr. Watson had his "Old Army Revolver." This thought surely provided inspiration for acquisition of a British "Army revolver" or two of my own.

Hah! Great minds ...

"The Hound of the Baskervilles" in a flimsy paperback edition borrowed from a cousin, represented my initial exposure to Sherlock Holmes when I was 12.

There. In the corner. My beloved set given me by Mrs. BMc back in early marriage and read on an 18-month to 2-year cycle ever since. It is the best of all for the Sherlock Holmes fan. Last read it around Christmas of last year.

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I loathe watching television for the news. It's all too easy to start with Drudge and a morning cup of tea or coffee, moving on to other viewpoints on news events of the day. By picking and choosing I can consume all the news and current events needed before the second cup is finished and without enduring commercials, news segments, or news slant that I don't want. I'm allergic to television news, an allergy which manifests itself in elevated blood pressure.

Traveling to my parents' for a few days in order to help them ready for a move. They are up in years and can no longer maintain their rural place. Already spent a week there cleaning out. They watch the news. It's a whipping!

Bryan-

I've agonized over what Watson's "service revolver" might be. British officers bought their own sidearms, and could carry anything, not just the official pattern. They were supposed to chamber the issue cartridges, but that was often ignored.

Garry James did a nice article on Holmes guns in G&A, years ago. In deciding what to picture if I read a Holmes book, I looked at the probable time that Dr. Watson retired and where he served, inc. Afghanistan, I think.

I'm not sure when the first Holmes story was set. Sometime in the 1880's, I think? That rules out a lot of possibilities.

I finally decided on either a MK II Adams .450 or a Webley-Pryse in .455 or .476. The .476 Enfield was too big to carry around later in London and was not well liked. Good ctg., bad gun.

Watson was a doctor and would know about the need for stopping power in fighting savage tribes in British colonies then. He may have treated spear and sword wounds in troops injured when a revolver failed to stop an Ashanti or Zulu warrior or a Fuzzie-Wuzzie or Pathan, Afghan, etc. He'd know the limitations of the .450 ctg.!

I think he was too late to have carried a Webley-Kaufman unless he bought it just before retiring.
Again, there's a size issue if he carried it in London, probably in a coat pocket. I doubt that Doyle even thought about that issue.

As for Holmes, Garry James thought he'd have a No. 2 Webley .450, then the London cop gun, I think. Going by memory on his article, BTW.

Makes sense, but I like the looks of the 1883 version of the RIC series. That's a nice looking gun of that sort, and offers a better handle shape over the other.

I think it was absurd that Holmes would practice shooting in "his rooms." Doyle knew VERY little of guns, and would have no idea of the penetration of a bullet, the noise aspect, or the effect of black powder fumes in an enclosed room.

I also gravely doubt that a Russell's viper/Tic Palonga snake could be trained to crawl into a room through the ventilation system to get a dish of milk. I enjoyed, the Speckled Band, but don't respect his research. My favorite Holmes tales were the one where the guy was taking ape genes to climb well and, The Hound of the Baskervilles, which was at least plausible. I sometimes speculate on which guns I'd have with me if I assisted Holmes and Watson in pursuing that big dog.

I think my revolvers would be Colt SAA .45's, one with the original 7.5-inch barrel. A spare, maybe at times worn under a coat, would have the 4.75-inch bbl. Rifles? Maybe a Winchester .45-90 M-1886. If the story was set late enough, a .303 might be feasible, with softpoint hunting loads, or a .275 Rigby.

One big advantage, The Lost World TV show had over the book is that it was printed in 1912, and setting the TV show from 1919-1922 is that several better guns were more available.

I'm on my way to "work", so don't have much time, but it sounds as though we have more in common than differences. Its great exchanging stories and guns and likes with you guys!! I'll be back again.

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These postings are getting better and better! Les, Texas, and Bryan all have kicked in some really relevant data/book listing/films all related to subject matter super interesting to all of us. The on-going, never ending quest for knowledge concerning Brit history, Brit firearms, and great British leadership that absolutely captures all three of us. Thanks again my friends! I will attempt to follow your lightening with some Webley thunder forth-coming.

David

Well, it's been three days, and I for one have been busy, I hope we keep this thread going a while longer, it is a good one. Today was the last day of classes for this semester, have been busy this week, next week finals, then three months off, will spend some of it checking out this forum. Lots to learn here.

Texas Star tried to warn me, but I just had to watch "The Lost World" 1960 version with Jill St. John. Whew. I could only do about twenty minutes at a time. I think when I saw the movie in 1960, I was about 15 years old, and it seemed a lot more interesting. Shame. The book was so good, and the movie is.... Well, I don't want to spoil it for anyone...but it's not very good.

The tv series though, that is just a few years old, which Texas refered us to, is much better. Hope to see some of you guys back here again. I followed a 1939 Enfield No. 2 Mark I which was Not modified, and very nice, on gunbroker, but it went to $590, and that was just a little more than I was prepared to go right now. Still looking for a really nice one. Which this was, just not the right time.

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Les
Have a look at thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/firearm...on-tanker.html

Someone kept bumping the price $30.00 a crack. I did not let it go. If he would have bid once more I'd have lost it. Didn't know when I'd see one again so I popped for it.
This darn thread is to blame. Dabney's fault.

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M1A: thanks for the heads up!!! That was the gun I was talking about in my post 139 above!!!! I am happy you got it, and also happy that we did not end up bidding against each other!! It would have all been David's fault!!! That is indeed a great revolver, and I followed it for days, as the price inched up. I usually wait til near the end to bid, and I decided at the last not to jump in, when the price started to get near $600!!! What a coincidence.... I'm happy for you.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

The original round that Enfield No. 2's were chambered for, the 200-gr. LRN (.380-200) was thought to be a "close-enough" round to the legendary .455 Webley to replace it. This was the thinking of the British War Office in the early 1920's, also the soldiers could be trained faster/cheaper with a smaller round/revolver. As students of Enfield history know, the .380-200 round was discontinued for "Hague Convention" considerations and a new metal jacketed (lighter) round replaced it. This new, approved .380 round was definitely sub-standard to the .455 Webley, without any doubt!

In years past, I was able to get a few rounds of 200-gr. LRN .38 S&W for self defense purposes. Since my passion for the Enfield/Webley .380 Revolvers was so great, and I keep one in my nightstand, and take one sometimes on out-of-town trips, I thought it prudent to load up my Enfield with the "original" round. My Enfield shoots it straighter/better/bigger splash in the swimming pool with big soft lead bullet/with light report when firing same. The original concept of 1922 still has merit. A big soft lead bullet, traveling at a moderate velocity, and impacting on soft bodily tissue under 10-feet away will resolve a lot of deadly, could be encounters. Whether at home or on the road, an Enfield/Webley .380, in good working order, can be a very viable self defense answer. These classic British Military Revolvers, properly set up, can/will do the job of protecting you from evil. Thanks M1A, for your recent display of your new-to-you, great looking Enfield No. 2. A real British treasure!

David

The bullet issue is a factor in the Hague Accords, not the Geneva Convention.

I wonder when those articles were signed. The British did use lead bullets in WWI.

Right you are Texas, about the Hague versus Geneva. Please note correction in my post on this. This is something that keeps coming up, even in the bible book on Enfield Revolvers by Stamps/Skennerton on page 41 paperback. There is mention about British Officers being concerned about "Geneva Convention" violation with 200-grain soft lead bullet that would lead to the ,380-200 being discontinued for a jacketed round later. The authors were listing the Officers concern at that time (1920's time period) and recorded what they (officers) said about it. Even they, were in error back then. Thank you again, for keeping me on the straight and narrow!

David

I was recently investigating the Guns International website for shooting treasures and stumbled upon an absolute gotta-have/gotta-get "Commemorative Enfield No. 2 MK I* Revolver with British Commando Knife. The pair come in a nice looking wood display box with glass window for open display. This Enfield has been painstakingly re-finished in a deep blue with gold lettering/scroll on both sides of the barrel and a Brit Unit insignia, also in gold, stamped into the left-side of the frame. The grips are not the standard wood or Bakelite Enfield Grips, but beautiful after-market, smooth walnut grips, which enhances the looks of this dark blue finish Enfield! It is not a firearm one would take out and shoot, unless zombie time comes early. It is an immaculate arm that an Enfield junkie, like myself, craves for! It had already been sold at about 1700-dollars. The pictures of this gotta-have/gotta-get Enfield is just captivating! I hope someone that knows how to post a link will do so and the rest of the Enfield junkies can detox with me.

I would like to know more about this "special" commemorative Enfield that I'm speaking of. It looks like, maybe a company, may have made a special run of these and this one is one of those. If any of you have info on this "commemorative" Commando Enfield please plug me in. I'm hyper-ventilating here, just looking at the pictures.

David

Bryan:

Just a heads up, found a nice hardback of "Churchill's Generals" on Amazon, the same publisher as yours, used, for $4.00.... And as a prime member, shipping was free!!! It just came today. We're in finals this week, and I'm rereading another of my old favorite authors, Eric Ambler, (amazing how neither Doyle, Ambler, or Fleming had a clue about firearms, and yet I still love them). I will be starting on the new book soon though.

Thanks to you, Texas Star, and David, I've added a few new books to my collection. And thanks to M1A, I didn't add a new Enfield to my collection (dag nab it!). By the way, when I went back to check out your bookshelf, I saw some Russian medals there. I have a small collection of those also.... And a bunch of Russian and Communist Block firearms also, but that is material for another thread sometime. I would love to share some of my experiences in Russia, which included some behind the scenes visits to a few military museums, and an up close personal look at some original Russian arms. I was able to go shooting with the Moscow police too.... Sometime we can share that story.

Best Regards, with apologies to David for the thread drift!!!,

P.S. I have been skimming "Churchill's Generals", and like it so much that I just went back to Amazon and found used hardcover versions of "Stalin's Generals", and "Hitler's Generals", and they are on the way, free two day shipping!! Amazon Prime is definitely worth it's cost, with free shipping on everything, no matter how inexpensive, and the streaming video. I'm also watching an old Noir film, "Cry Danger" on the iPad I between everything else...good flick, Dick Powell, Rhonda Fleming, and William Conrad!!!

Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

David, I couldn't find the set that you were looking at at the auction that you mentioned, but I did find one at another site. I wonder if they could have refurbished and refinished original WWII vintage Enfields to make up the limited edition? You have my curiosity aroused, and I am going to keep looking for information on these sets!!!

Here's the link to the auction that I found, back in 2012: Cased WWII Commando Special Edition Commemorative British | Lot #32510 | Heritage Auctions

Well.... I did find the site that you were mentioning... I think... Try this: https://www.gunsamerica.com/92977324...rbairn-AMF.htm

Here's a photo from another site of the revolver and dagger out of their case:




Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Les, this is exactly what I was talking about. Thank you my friend for this kindness sir. Everytime I see this, as an Enfield collector, I get sweaty palms. What an addition to a collection of Brit firearms this would be. Thanks again!

David

For M1A: I just finished "Cry Danger", but when I started another oldie, "Dark City", 1950, I immediately thought of your sign off, a quote from C.H., well, the first thing I see is "Introducing Charlton Heston", and here he comes, walking down the street, younger than I ever remember him! Free on Amazon Prime!!!

Sorry, again, David, for the thread drift... And Oh, yeah... I read somewhere that they only made 250 of those Commando sets.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

C.H. is a favorite of mine. I wish I could print the phrase the way he said it.
Lizabeth Scott (Dark City) is not hard to look at, or listen to.
BTW, Dab started a good thread. A little drift won't hurt.

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"from my cold dead hands" C.H.