Haven't been on in a while but am having a tough time with wanting new pistols. I have always liked the 3rd gens and wish they were still available new. I have noticed Sig has offerings much like the 3rd gens, 229 etc. and also striker fire, 320. I only own smiths but am getting the itch for a Sig, mainly because they seem to be what S&W used to be. Anyone else notice this or agree?

I'd hate to have to start buying a new company........not like I'm a sponsored shooter or anything but in my mind it would be a big deal ��

TD

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More stuff!!!

Sigs are Sigs, either you like them or you don't. They were making their autos long before the 3rd gens came out. They still have all metal guns, but that is about all they have in common with 3rd gen S&Ws.

They do tend to make quality stuff, but they ain't exactly inexpensive either.

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My sgntr is mor thn 30 chrctrs

Oh, I think it goes without saying that right now Sig is making the successor guns to the S&W 3rd Gens. The only question in my mind is how long they'll continue to do so? There's a discussion going on in another thread right now debating Sig's future direction. Will it be all-metal? Will it be plastic? Or will all-metal and plastic be able to coexist side-by-side long-term?

I'm a big fan of Sig pistols. DA/SA with a frame mounted decocker... pretty sure S&W got sued by them for copying the design. I've got a two toned W German P220 and just picked up a P245, but I've also had a couple of P226's that for one reason or another got traded off or sold - may be about time for a new one. I carry a P290RS as well. Accurate, reliable, and IMHO quite attractive - what else could you ask for? Hell, I even like the looks of the Sig type slide on their 1911's.

I love my s&w revolvers, but for semi auto I am either shooting a 1911 based gun or a sig except of course for my model 41 for bullseye. I also like the all metal construction on the p226-7-8-9 type guns and just picked up a p220. They are reliable, have a bunch of trigger options and frames in aluminum or stainless. Great accuracy too.

My first pistol was a s&w 4006 in the early 90's and it was inconsistent at best. Smith even put a new barrel in it and it still had issues, shoot good one magazine, the next would be off the paper even resting the gun. I traded it and saw it twice more in the used case over a few years. My only other 3rd gen was a cs40 and that worked ok but never bonded with me like my other guns so it is long gone now too. I always liked the looks and feel on the 3rd gen smiths, but they just didn't do it for me in accuracy or reliability. Others have had great luck with them though.

Man, that is plain WEIRD. I've never heard of a 3rd gen that persistently messed up. The bushing/barrel fit must have been off or the camming and resetting of the barrel within the slide. In other words, it couldn't have been just the barrel.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I'm not sure they are getting to be like anything. Sig is Sig. The offerings they have are the ones they always had for the most part. The 220/226/228 date back to the 70s and 80s. And they are still produced today although slightly re engineered.

Will they keep making the legacy guns? Will they stop? Only Sig know cause only they know their bottom line. They almost did once, in the mid 80s, so it's possible that in the near future they may completely stop.

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I agree with Arik on this. In my uneducated opinion, Sig is like S&W during the 3rd generation, in that they make a lot of different metal-frame pistols, basically one for every size and caliber.

And unfortunately, like 3rd Gen S&W, I don't expect to see this continue very long. Most of the new contracts are now going to be the 320, polymer frame pistols. If/when the US moves away from the M9 and M11, I think Sig and Beretta will phase out their "classic" lines, and pull a S&W (the 320 etc will be the Sig version of the M&P).
A mildly troubling hint is that Sig has a 1911 in the mix. If you look, the 1911 is the only metal-frame centerfire pistol that S&W and Ruger now make; it wouldn't surprise me to see Sig follow that plan too.

I think they will scale them back but they have too much invested in the new manufacturing facility to scrap them entirely. I mean the just brought back the P225 sort of. The new P225A1 is sort of a frankengun. It is a mix of P239 parts and re-engineered P225 parts.

I think you will see less models being offered within each pistol line. For example they will not keep 21 models of the P226 which is what is currently on the website and that does not even include the Legion pistols.

I think they will go back to the standard P series stock guns and then the Legion series where you will see more and more production line custom type guns which have real functional differences from the standard instead of just cosmetic differences like it is now. I mean who really needs a P226 with tribal flash.

I would also like to see them do more work out of the custom shop. Allow dealers to place custom orders using Legion pistols as base guns. As I said I think they are headed in two different directions.

The P320 will become the meat and potatoes and the Legion pistols will become the high end. The classic P series will just be filler but they are not ready to go the way of the dodo yet.

I hope you're right. I think S&W over-compensated when they dropped the entire 39/59 lineup, they "should" have kept a base model for the non-1911 enthusiast. Probably a 59 series (fullsize double stack) available in 9 and 40, and let everything else go polymer.

Is the Legion series more of a Custom Shop equivalent, or more of a TSW equivalent?

I am not as versed in S&W history as Sig but hadn't the sales of the Gen 3 guns really slowed down by the time they discontinued them? Sig is still moving a lot of P series metal.

The Legions are sort of in between. They are not full custom shop guns but the triggers, sights and ignition parts are all upgraded. Triggers were designed by Bruce Gray IIRC. The frames are different and they have a unique beavertail and frame relieved undercut trigger guard like the X-5. To my eyes they are more like S&W performance center guns than the TSW.

My old 228 & 229 keeps me happy........

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S&W Accumulator

For semi auto pistols I have been a Sig fan for many years now and I have more of them than I really need but I'm not planning on selling any of them. They are reliable, accurate and well made pistols so in my mind what is not to like about them. My carry gun is a Sig P228 Swiss Police trade in with a 15 round magazine.

I like both 3rd gens and Sigs. Considering buying a 4506 but already have a P220 ST. Sig compares very well with the 4506.

One thing for certain I doubt anyone can complain about, is the simplicity at which they can taken down. Nothing to push out, and no link to line up with the hole in the frame. Just a flip of the flag. I have owned the 226, 220, 229 sport , and now I have picked up the Sig 220 Sport, which I have long sought after. Sure they are expensive, but I feel you do get what you pay for.

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I have a Sig 226 in .40 S&W that I bought a .357 Sig barrel for. A police officer had it prior to me for 6 months but decided to move on to a .45 ACP. I figured it was a decent buy at $425 since it came with 4 magazines. My buddies now tell me that I have a gun with two obsolete calibers and need to sell it at the next gun show. The gun looks like new and shoots fine. Think I will keep it and let them rag on me some more. Truth is they probably want to buy it.

I have only two Sigs. And one of those is a P210 from 1952. The other is a P239 with 40 and 357 Sig barrels. I bought it new in the late 90s and I really do love this gun. Especially after putting on Hogue wood. Can't predict the future of Sig but they sure do make appealing products. Sure wish S&W would make an effort to compete with Sig. Unfortunately the price for new Sigs and potential new Smith and Wessons would probably keep me on the sidelines.

Edit: After writing the above I want to edit as I have three Sigs. The one I forgot is a beautiful P232! One of the coolest looking guns ever!

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I'm gonna grow fins.

I like Sigs and S&Ws. I swapped the 39-2 for a 3953, still have the P225 and two others. I think S&W should of kept making a basic model of each third generation pistol.

.357 Sig may become more of a niche caliber - like a .41 Magnum, similar in conceived purpose and used only by a small minority - but as long as someone is willing to make the ammo, and we can buy via the internet, it will be okay to own and shoot one (though not cheap). And they can be reloaded. As for .40 S&W, it remains popular although the 9mm has supplanted it in many situations. .40 is a great round, more capable than 9mm (improvements in bullets for 9mm mean .40 bullets are better too), and it will be around for a long time! But I suspect your friends know that!

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S&W Rover

I have several major brands of pistols Beretta, Tanfoglio, S&W, and Sig ..

But the last two I have bought are Sig's .. A P238 I found I shot better then the Bodyguard .. and my last acquisition a P229 Legion .. Which is a pleasure to shoot ..

The "P" series Sig has I don't think are going anywhere but could see a few more striker fired pistols to appease that side of the aisle .. And Sig has said there will be more Legions in the P series .. a P220 coming out soon in 3 configurations and a Legion 1911 maybe later this fall ..

Sig metal pistols are more expensive but they shoot so smoothly they are worth the price ..

After saying all that .. I carry a 40 Compact .. and use the p238 as my Bug !!

Two of the three handguns on my CCW permit are a 9mm Sig P239 and a 9mm S&W M&P Shield. All I know is they're both accurate and fun to shoot. I usually carry the Shield because it's smaller, lighter and more comfortable tucked IWB. I guess I don't know if Sig is the new S&W, but I sure like those pistols.

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Life's not fair. But I am.

I've owned almost every brand of semi-auto pistol through the years but, have never found any that were better than my Sigs.

Let me help you out with the appropriate answer.

Yup. I've had several Sig's over the years, including a 220, 225, 226, and 239.and they're fine pistols. Still have the 225 because I like the way the gun fits my hand, and I also have a 1911 TacOps. Still, nothing shoots better than my P7.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Been awhile.... does that have the heel mag release?

The P7 is a great gun if you're willing to "dedicate" yourself to it's unique manual of arms...........................

Mine has the ambi release/catch . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I'd love a P7 of the m13 or whatever they are called. Unfortunately I missed the boat on affordable Ps.

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It's one of three or four that I have made sure my wife knows what they're worth . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Yeah, right...as long as you didn't fire more than a few magazines in quick succession. The heat buildup along the slide and frame from the gas return system turned that bad boy into a hot potato. Accurate, yes. Reliable, yes. User friendly, no, not if you used it for sustained fire. Ask some of those who carried it for years, and had to qualify using it. I never had that problem with a Sig.

I'll second that hot potato. The gas piston located above the trigger gets hot fast.

Also don't forget that the trigger has a rectangular flap that blends into the frame. And that's to that, you get two SHARP corners that stab into your trigger finger during recoil. I'll try to get pictures of that.

Sig is the gun. I have 18 of them. I also have S&W, H&K, Ruger, Walther, STI, CZ. Here is a Sig I could not pass up used a X5 LW 9mm.

I have both and like each almost equally well....especially my P220......as long as Sig keeps selling alloy and steel frame P series they will keep making them....My only polymer frame gun I own is a SP2022 and compared to other Sigs it would be considered a value line gun.....but....it does have a hammer instead of the gawd awful twang of a striker..................................................................................

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witty signature goes here

+1 for the Sigs, I too have one of the Swiss police guns, I like it so much that I picked up a SAS P229,

The Sig P series models shoot as well as the Smiths.

for reference, the P228 is a stamped piece in a 9mm while the p229 is a forged one piece of metal.

The 228 feels light and nimble in the hand while the 229 feels more sold and heavier.

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All the different magwell. Early 229 were the same as 228 but for a while they have been 2 different guns. You can't even swap mags

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If Sig starts making revolvers, then yes. Until then, Sig Sauer is Sig Sauer.

Sig wants to be your one-stop shop for everything. You need ammo, they have practice FMJ and hollowpoints (including full power 10mm). You want an optic, check out their Romeo series. You need a rifle, they have adapted AR and AK platforms. If you need pistols, you can go low and get an SP2022 (what Sig considers lowend, Ruger can only dream), or go sky high for an X5.

To be honest, Sigs got me to look into 3rd Gens Smiths. When I got back into firearms 3 years ago, I wanted a P226ST, but didn't have the money and couldn't find one used. So I bought a 5906TSW that I absolutely loved and hate myself for selling (in part for an X5 Allround with a trigger job). I'm a little less broke up about the 4566TSW, but I'll get a Melonite or a integral rail version later.

As far as Sig's future, there's talk of a single stack P320 for CCW and other uses. They had a prototype of a P320 Competition models with a 5" barrel and recontoured grip, but a different fire-control unit that won't work in other P320s (the grip shells work, but I'm not sure if they're trying to fix it or not). The Legion series is going to expand with more models (including rifles), and later this year the P210 is coming back in a 4", 5", and 6" version with a target price of $1,500.

I don't have any Sigs, & not very familiar with them, but got to fondle one at the LGS today. It was a P220 Elite Stainless, 10mm, adjustable rear sight, nice rosewood grips & was the SAO model. Liked it quit a bit better that the last Sig I did a quick look-over of.

Their ejector assembly is way different than anything else I've noticed. Tagged at $1149 that seemed pretty fair, especially compared to the many premium 1911's.

.

PS: Couldn't find the exact model on Sig's page. Found out it's a Lipsey only offering.

Wake-up S&W! Are you listening... we like!!

SIG SAUER P220-10 10MM - SI220R510SSESAO - LIPSEY'S EXCLUSIVE - 220R5-10-SSE-SAO - UPC:798681517626 - Lipseys.com

.

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Waiting for the break of day

That's not a bad price but I don't know too many people looking to spend that kind of money on a gun. I know I'm not. And if S&W makes their 3rd gens again and at that price I doubt there would be too many sales

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I'm stuck in the 80s and 90s .......... Beretta 92 variants, Sigs P series and 3rd Gen Smiths.


As I've said many time I'm glad I bought mine years ago...... for quality and the price!!!!!!

The M1006 retailed for $720 in 1990. In todays dollars that'd be about $1351 in inflation alone. We'd all like to buy a newly made 3rd Gen at 1990 prices too but that's not going to happen. No doubt that's part of the appeal of their plastic guns.

Seeing that SIG makes (4) different versions of the P220-10, & all their different versions of the P220-45 sure is reminiscent of S&W's old days.

.

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Waiting for the break of day

These kinds of "then vs. now" comparisons always blow my half-senile old mind. To me, a brand new all-metal Sig is a very expensive handgun. But I live in a world dominated by modern plastic wonders and, for me in particular, used S&W 3rd Gens. The average cost to me for all the new & used handguns I have bought in the last several years is within pennies of $425.00... including shipping, transfer fee and/or sales tax as applicable. Hard capped at $500 out the door without wife pre-approval, I think I'm done damn well in terms of getting the most bang for my limited bucks.

Now comes the proper time to consider a brand new MA-compliant Sig P226 9mm and the price just floors me. I can buy at least two barely used S&W 3rd Gens or three plastic wonder guns for the best available discounted price of the Sig! And even going "slightly used" doesn't save me enough money to be worth it (and I refuse to go with a .40 LEO trade-in). In truth, I can almost buy two brand new Beretta 92FS pistols in black for the same net cost as the one Sig P226.

But I'm going to do it anyway. It's time for me to own a new Sig all-metal pistol. In fact, the finances and the good wife's approval are already in place. Just waiting for the damn thing to arrive back in stock at the store where I need to purchase it.

I'd buy a new 1006 (but prefer a 1066). It would cost about the same as a stainless Sig does now.

I found and bought a very nice 3914 and about the same time a Sig 2022 in 9mm. Then i found a like new 220 in 45 with 4 mags in the used case. I have 1911's; colt, kimber and dan wesson. The 3914 shoots incredibly well as do both of the sigs. I really like all three. They actually shoot as well and sometimes better, (depending on the day) as my 1911s. The 1st pistol on my ccw is the 3914, then a kimber cdpII in 45, then third is a DW guardian in 38 super. I am seriously considering exchanging one of the 11s for one of the sigs on my CCW. For winter, of course. They ARE fatter than a sleek 1911. They field-strip extremely fast, clean easily and are very robust.
And yes, I have plenty of S&W revolvers, too. lol

To answer the OP's question, Yes, SIG is becoming/already is the S&W of old. S&W ownership changed hands many times in the past and some of the owners were not really interested in keep S&W a viable gun company. The disastrous deal struck with the Clinton administration did nothing for the company and it reputation. S&W decline can be traced to the poor management decisions and ownership changes over the years. The S&W's move the less expensive to manufacturer plastic/striker fired handguns seems to be the only way they can remain a player in the handgun business.

Just my $0.02.

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Bill

I don't know if they are the S&W of old, but they are the only gun company making new handguns that I want to buy.

Well made, metal framed, hammer fired guns, with good triggers, that are accurate and reliable. And look good doing all that. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I love my Sig pistols. Accurate and have never had a malfunction.

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Patriots Forever!!

Those Swiss police pieces once imported and sold through the appropriate dealers went like hot cakes. You very rarely if ever see them pop back up on auction sites and when you do they bring 80 percent of the new prices.

Those Sigs sold as police used trade ins in the 500 dollar range. I wish I would have found them sooner as I think most of the dealer employees picked up the premium models for friends and family while we all had the shield stamped Swiss models selling for the same 499--- price tag.

the beaters went for less than that. We do not get as many imported firearms from places like Robertsons and such any longer. Wonder why?

I ended up buying two Swiss Police trade in's and later gave one to my son. They were $500 each and one of the two I got was like brand new so it was a super steal at that price.

About 4 years before that the German Police trade in P6's came in which were slightly modified P225's and they sold for $259 when they first came in. I bought two and later sold one and had the other one refinished and still only had $500 in it.

This is the German P6 after getting it redone.

Yeah I had to replace the night sites in mine which I did with meprolights. Thought about rebluing the gun but it would lose its markings and decided to clean it really good which brought back some of the blue back. Those pieces were really nice and I am surprised they did. Not bring them back to the states to sell.

That was a great price. I sold a P6 for $450 about two years ago. Like yours, it was undropped, as evidence by the hammer loop . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .