AR pistols...I'm debating

Jessie

Jessie

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I'm thinking of getting one while they are still obtainable.
7.5"- 10.5"? I know nothing of the advantages or disadvantages of them. I've heard that suppressor warranties are usually void for barrels under 10.5", but I don't believe suppressors are allowed in my county.
I'm thinking the shorter the handier. Any thoughts?
 
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Nothing wrong with a 10.25 or longer AR pistol...
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I mean no offense to anyone who enjoys these rifle caliber "pistols", but they always seemed pretty impractical to me. Kind of like some of those fantasy knives or Mares Leg "pistols". I was paid to carry a firearm most of my working life. Nowhere in military or LE did I see anyone carrying one of these "pistols". If they were practical for any serious purpose, wouldn't military and LE units be using them? To me, a pistol is a defensive weapon carried when you may need a firearm immediately, but convenient to carry when carrying out one's activities but not actually engaged in combat. Now a SMG or short carbine, OK, but a giant "pistol"? I was in Armor in the military. Moving in, out and about a tank with one of those, especially if equipped with optics, a light, etc., lashed to each crew member would have been a sight to see. Our 1911A1s in shoulder holsters worked just fine. In LE, something like those "pistols" would have been about the last type of firearm I'd have wanted as I carried out my day to day duties in a variety of assignments......ymmv

PS, if something just to have fun blasting away at the range with, I get it. Same with those Mares Leg lever action "pistols". After all, Steve McQueen did real well in actual TV cowboy combat with one;)
 
I think the idea is that these are essentially SBRs and are simply a way to get around the paperwork process. If I ever need the use of one of these in a SHTH situation, I highly doubt that I am going to stop myself from shouldering the gun because I would then be breaking the law. Notice the guy in the picture, he broke the law the moment he shouldered that weapon and do you really think all these sub 16 inch uppers attached to lowers with arm braces really are being used strapped to someone's forearm? These so called pistols with braces or buffers, like the one in the picture, are wolves (SBRs) in sheep's clothing for when the zombie homecoming is upon us.

They are impractical to the military and law enforcement because y'all already have access to SBR SMGs, it is the poor man's version of an SBR and when it is equipped with bump fire mechanism/stock you have a real poor man's SMG. Yes I know it would be illegal but that is why you have the brace for the pistol and the bump fire stock for your 16 inch carbine because when the SHTF and you reassemble your ARs one might just get the pieces all mixed up.
 
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GunarSailors said:
I respectfully disagree.
Click to expand...

I know, there are differing opinions on this, but I am not going to be the one that takes my braced pistol and start shouldering it at the gun range especially since the ATF has opined on this.

I believe the ATF has been pretty definitive......"The pistol stabilizing brace was neither “designed” nor approved to be used as a shoulder stock, and therefore use as a shoulder stock constitutes a “redesign” of the device because a possessor has changed the very function of the item. Any individual letters stating otherwise are contrary to the plain language of the NFA, misapply Federal law, and are hereby revoked."

Additionally, the ATF said........"Any person who intends to use a handgun stabilizing brace as a shoulder stock on a pistol (having a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a smooth bore firearm with a barrel under 18 inches in length) must first file an ATF Form 1 and pay the applicable tax because the resulting firearm will be subject to all provisions of the NFA."
 
moralem said:
I know, there are differing opinions on this, but I am not going to be the one that takes my braced pistol and start shouldering it at the gun range especially since the ATF has opined on this.



Forget ATF- they have nothing to say, he lives in Denmark!!!! If he was in US then he could not use the brace, which he does not have!, as a stock.
Click to expand...
 
Jessie said:
I'm thinking of getting one while they are still obtainable.
7.5"- 10.5"? I know nothing of the advantages or disadvantages of them. I've heard that suppressor warranties are usually void for barrels under 10.5", but I don't believe suppressors are allowed in my county.
I'm thinking the shorter the handier. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

First: Suppressors are legal in your county- check silencer shop for dealers in your zip.
Second: Barrel could be 7.5-10.5 in 223, 300 Blackout
Third: Suppressors vary, and warranties that may not apply to a 223 will for 300, all depends on caliber and manufacture, model of suppressor. To many to list
Fourth: You no longer need CLEO's permission

Be Safe,
 
vipermd said:
moralem said:
I know, there are differing opinions on this, but I am not going to be the one that takes my braced pistol and start shouldering it at the gun range especially since the ATF has opined on this.
I actually liked the KAK extended buffer tube that I put on my AR pistol. Believe it or not it was super easy to shoulder and wasn't uncomfortable to shoot at all.



Forget ATF- they have nothing to say, he lives in Denmark!!!! If he was in US then he could not use the brace, which he does not have!, as a stock.
Click to expand...

I do live in Denmark now, and I sold the AR pistol to fund a model 27-8 purchase before I left to come here. I just didn't want people to think I brought that with me too. The fact is that gun never had a brace. So the question remains, is it illegal by BATFE standards, to put the buffer tube against your shoulder when you shoot an AR pistol, and I don't think it is.
Click to expand...
 
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GunarSailors said:
vipermd said:
I do live in Denmark now, and I sold the AR pistol to fund a model 27-8 purchase before I left to come here. I just didn't want people to think I brought that with me too. The fact is that gun never had a brace. So the question remains, is it illegal by BATFE standards, to put the buffer tube against your shoulder when you shoot an AR pistol, and I don't think it is.
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Whatever, I wouldn't put pictures of myself on the internet shouldering a padded buffer tube. A reasonable jury member like myself could well conclude that something functioning as a stock, is a stock.
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I hated shooting my .223 AR "pistol" w/~10" barrel. It was loud, uncomfortable to shoot and served no real purpose that a 16" carbine couldn't handle.

That being said...I LOVE LOVE LOVE shooting my 10" .300BLK registered SBR. Suppressed or not, it's a real joy to shoot.

Throw the .223 upper on the registered SBR lower, add a suppressor, and it becomes fun to shoot again.
 
As I own and shoot a Sig PM400, with the brace, I'd point out a couple of MY opinions. Worth what you paid....

- There are no patrolling ATF people out looking for who may 'shoulder' a pistol.
- Local LE agencies have no clue about the intricacies of ATF regs. Just in case, I keep a laminated copy of the ATF letter indicating said item is a pistol, not an SBR.
- There is no enforceable law requiring you to hold a pistol a certain way at the moment of firing. The brace was intended to assist with some weird one hand hold, but shouldering it breaks no laws.

And yes, I acquired the PM400 as an end-run around SBR laws. At the time, I lived in a county where the CLEO would sign no ATF Forms for anything NFA, even if it was for active or retired LEO.
 
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Jessie said:
I'm thinking of getting one while they are still obtainable.
7.5"- 10.5"? I know nothing of the advantages or disadvantages of them. I've heard that suppressor warranties are usually void for barrels under 10.5", but I don't believe suppressors are allowed in my county.
I'm thinking the shorter the handier. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

For .223/5.56 you lose too much velocity and gain too much muzzle flash/blast if you go much below 11 1/2, I know the 10.25's are popular based on the MK18, but remember those were meant to be used with a suppressor. For 30 Blackout 7.5-9" seems to be the sweet spot, the Noveske flaming pig muzzle break as shown in the photos works well to redirect the flash/blast forward away from the shooter, that second picture actually shows this very well.
 
Jessie said:
I'm thinking of getting one while they are still obtainable.
7.5"- 10.5"? I know nothing of the advantages or disadvantages of them. I've heard that suppressor warranties are usually void for barrels under 10.5", but I don't believe suppressors are allowed in my county.
I'm thinking the shorter the handier. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Suppressors are perfectly fine anywhere in VA. The AR pistol excitement seems to wear off quickly as they are difficult to aim and very loud. You will be happier in the long run getting a SBR and a suppressor while the getting is still good.
 
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After shouldering an AK with an "arm brace" and getting punched in the nose by the upper receiver, I have come to the conclusion that using the brace as a half measure to get around SBR regulations serves no purpose whatsoever. If I want a rifle I'll get a rifle. If I want a pistol I'll get a pistol...a real pistol. If I want an SBR, I'll do the paperwork and get an actual SBR.

In any event, I'm not seeing any ATF agents lurking in the background.
 
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