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11-18-2016, 11:54 AM
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Colt New Service 1917 Identification
Brother in Law just picked up a 45 ACP Colt New Service/1917. Not sure exactly what he's got and I know there are great folks here who can help.
Serial is on the frame at the crane 266,xxx
No US Property markings. Butt has the "No." marking like other 1917's, but no other numbers or military branch.
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11-18-2016, 11:56 AM
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More pics of markings, etc
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11-18-2016, 12:02 PM
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11-18-2016, 12:06 PM
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Simple, it is an ex-military 1917 on which someone has ground off the US property stampings. I believe the serial number on these is stamped on the frame under the barrel so it is still legal. On an S & W 1917 it would be missing, and therefore illegal to possess.
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11-18-2016, 12:09 PM
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I sincerely disagree with that assessment. What evidence leads you to that conclusion? There are no signs of tampering with it to that level. Thank you for the response.
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11-18-2016, 12:17 PM
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POST WAR COMMERCIAL, MAYBE COLT USED SURPLUS 1917 FRAMES TO MAKE GUNS? FINISH LOOKS FACTORY TO ME? ONE THING I DO KNOW IT A GOOD LOOKING NEW SERVICE!
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11-18-2016, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul s
POST WAR COMMERCIAL, MAYBE COLT USED SURPLUS 1917 FRAMES TO MAKE GUNS? FINISH LOOKS FACTORY TO ME? ONE THING I DO KNOW IT A GOOD LOOKING NEW SERVICE!
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That's where I'm leaning, but I'm sure there are Colt guys that know for sure. Looks like an unfinished military frame. Doesn't match up with the books, though.
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11-18-2016, 12:23 PM
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The number typically stamped on the butt of a Colt 1917 is the US Gov't number. Colt stamped their serial number on the frame and 266,000 dates to about 1920 for a New Service, which is well after the Gov't cancelled orders. The polish on that gun is way too good for late military production and the frame is lacking the inspection stamp of Lt. Col. John M. Gilbert (JMG on the left side near the hammer).
The address stamp on top of the barrel looks washed out, but the rampant colt is very crisp. I suspect that gun was assembled from left over parts and sold commercially. Get a Colt letter.
Edit to add:
This was Colt's military production finish:
The Gov't needed the guns asap and actually stepped in and took over control of S&W during WWI because their standards for polishing and finishing were too high.
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Last edited by s&wchad; 11-18-2016 at 12:34 PM.
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11-18-2016, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s&wchad
The number typically stamped on the butt of a Colt 1917 is the US Gov't number. Colt stamped their serial number on the frame and 266,000 dates to about 1920 for a New Service, which is well after the Gov't cancelled orders. The polish on that gun is way too good for late military production and the frame is lacking the inspection stamp of Lt. Col. John M. Gilbert (JMG on the left side near the hammer).
The address stamp on top of the barrel looks washed out, but the rampant colt is very crisp. I suspect that gun was assembled from left over parts and sold commercially.
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I tend to agree. Any assessment on value?
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11-18-2016, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35Rem
I tend to agree. Any assessment on value?
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I wouldn't hazard a guess on value until I verified what it was.
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11-18-2016, 01:18 PM
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I think the gun is probably a Colt Factory refinish.
It is well within 1917 Mil serial number range.
Note that all edges on the frame have the matte finish. WHEN was that begun? Late 20s or into the 30s???
Around the cal mark, are those some tiny pits and dings that are blued? Pic attached.
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11-18-2016, 01:22 PM
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The 717 stamped on the barrel and frame, does that indicate a factory refinish? Were those standard assembly marks?
I don't have the gun. The marks between the T and the D look a little like pits. The others primarily looks like dings. I'm going by the pictures, though.
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11-18-2016, 01:32 PM
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I meant to mention those 717s.
Probably stamped during refinish so those parts could be matched up again after the reblue. Colt parts did not have numbers like S&Ws.
You might find the 717 on the cyl also.
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11-18-2016, 01:33 PM
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Added barrel pics to Photobucket.
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11-18-2016, 02:19 PM
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I have not seen a commercial Colt New Service with a leftover U.S. stamp on the bottom of the grip frame, but would be very happy to be incorrect about this.
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11-18-2016, 03:53 PM
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Indeed, something is just not right about the butt stamping. I also believe the original SN may have been removed, else it may have been a lunch box special. The Colt Forum (set up similar to this one) would be the best place to get a definitive answer. Many M1917 experts can be found there. Coltforum.com
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11-19-2016, 11:51 AM
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Added a photo of the colt commercial proof mark. I assume this would have been done during a refinish? Assuming it wasn't a commercial gun to start with
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