1891 Loewe Berlin 8mm Mauser

Vic_vega9 · Jun 15, 2017

It says it's 8mm but from what I know it should be 7.65x53 Argentine. Is $300 a good deal? I was gonna offer $250. Ammo is kinda expensive so I would plan on reloading. What's the deal with the barrel beeing cut off at the stock? I've seen others chopped like that on google so it looks like it's stock. Any help would be appreciated thanks

jimmyj · Jun 15, 2017

The Model 1891 Mauser I had was caliber 7.65 mm

TAROMAN · Jun 16, 2017

Forget that one, it's ruined. Worth nothing.
See the bayonet lug?
Cavalry carbines have no lug.
That means it was a long rifle that Bubba hacked off and added some aftermarket front sight.

It should look like this:

A proper carbine looks like this:

Frank46 · Jun 16, 2017

Some of the importers did this back about the 1960's to help sell these rifles. That looks like the original barrel and rear sight so it's a good bet your rifle is in the original 7.65x53 Argentine Mauser caliber. Gunboards has a few threads like this in their military rifles section, one post even has a pic of the advertisement showing an exact rifle such as yours. An 8mm cartridge case is nominally 57 mm long and as you note in your post the 7.65 is 53 mm long. The bolt will not close on a 57mm case. Frank

patrickd · Jun 16, 2017

I'm not familiar with that particular model, but one thing I know is that military arms are some of the best investments out there. They just keep going up and up. If 30 yrs ago I knew what I know today I'd have bought truckloads of 98 Mausers, Swedes, 1903's. 1917 Enfields, etc etc. Everything I picked up for junk prices back then are gold mines today.

Vic_vega9 · Jun 16, 2017

TAROMAN said:
Forget that one, it's ruined. Worth nothing.
See the bayonet lug?
Cavalry carbines have no lug.
That means it was a long rifle that Bubba hacked off and added some aftermarket front sight.

It should look like this:

A proper carbine looks like this:

I see what your saying about the real carbine. So is this one a "sporterize" version that the importer cut down?? Cause I see plenty of the full sized cut barrel and bayonet lug ones on google. I still like it but ammo isn't cheap and I would have to reload. Wish I could find out if it shoots good. If so I would offer $250 for sure.

lebomm · Jun 16, 2017

I'm a real fan of the 7.65mm cartridge, so I can understand your interest. That particular specimen has value only as a shooter, and then only if the bore and chamber are in good shape. I can't shoot the '91s as their stock dimensions match up w/my body dimensions such that the comb pounds my cheekbone something unfortunate ! RCBS offers a very fine FL die set, and the cases are a breeze to form from 8x57 with minimal trimming. .30-06 also works, but takes a good bit more trimming. If you can get seller to accept $250 just as a shooter, that would be a decent deal, IMHO.

Larry

DWalt · Jun 16, 2017

You can easily form 7.65mm cases from 8mm, 7mm, or even .30-'06 or .270 brass. At one time it was a fairly popular hunting rifle caliber in the US and ammunition was loaded here. I believe that Winchester even chambered a few Model 70s in that caliber. It's really not that much different from the .308.

britbike1 · Jun 16, 2017

Good morning, in my opinion that is a $150 extra rifle if you need one. I've had 3 minty origional ones and they were quite accurate. They aren't that great of a hunting rifle because the safety is awkward and they get heavy after a couple hrs walking in the woods. The serial # on the cleaning rod should match the gun. By the way one reason they are so long is because with the long bayonets of the day they could reach a cavalryman on a horse. If you want one find a uncut origional in vg or better condition as a gun from the time quality was 1st rate. I consider these, along with the 30-40 Krag rifle to be two of the most elegant military rifles made.

TAROMAN · Jun 16, 2017

Paid $240 for mine.
Bore is dark, but its very accurate with 174 grain RN handloads.
On a good day (for me) I can hit a 6" gong at 200 yards 3 of 5 shots.
They are beautiful, elegant rifles. Pains me to see them butchered.

1891 Argentine Mauser -
Here's a great write-up on them.

2152hq · Jun 16, 2017

Any of the Ludwig & Lowe mfg Argentine 1891 are 'Antique' status/ pre- 1899 mfg AFAIK.
L&L mfg these RIFLES only to 1896 ending in the 'O' prefix ser# range
L&L made the CARBINE version from 1893 to '95. I think they were A & B prefix only.

DWM also made these in both versions but didn't start till 1899. So neither would fall under the /pre 1899 Antique status rule.
They stopped production in 1901.

Both made beautifully crafted rifles as are any of the German produced small ring Mausers.
I wish I still had the new in the grease Lowe/Berlin made 7x57 1893 Mauser I bought back in the early 60's complete w/ matching bayonet for something like $12 or $15.
It was take your pick out of a crate of them at the gunshop.

Most of these rifles and carbines have now been lost to sporterizing and experimentation in some form. Many had their Crest ground from the recv'rs when imported many years ago;
Finding a truely nice original condition rifle is getting tough and pricey.
100+ years will do that..

30-30remchester · Jun 16, 2017

I can not get a close up of the subject carbine. Do not be too quick to dismiss this as fake because of the bayonet lug. Calvary carbines did not have a bayonet lug but engineer carbines did have a bayonet lug.

TAROMAN · Jun 16, 2017

Not the same.
Engineer carbine was a conversion on the cavalry version with an add-on bayonet system. Retained the original front sight and has two added bands.
Lug on the engineer version is not what shows in the OP images.

OP gun also has a rifle rear sight, not the smaller carbine version.

Warren Sear · Jun 16, 2017

I got his one about 25 years ago. Crest was ground off, but other than that it's all there. I shoot it with cast bullets (not "boolets") with satisfactory results...

Buford57 · Jun 16, 2017

A few years ago I ran across one with the barrel cut to 20" and stock trimmed back (not too badly) to "sporter" profile and a Williams ramp front sight for $75. The sales clerk said the shop gunsmith priced it as an action only because the barrel was not crowned and "it wouldn't shoot". While cut flat, it was cut straight and shoots as well as I expect of iron sights and old eyes at 100 yds. I am preparing to mount a Williams receiver sight to match the front, smooth out a few lines on the stock and take it hog hunting.

PRVI ammo from Graf's runs about $17-$19 per box. I have not reloaded any of it yet, so don't know how the brass holds up over time.

TAROMAN · Jun 16, 2017

Now that was a fair price.
They were honest about what it was.

k22fan · Jun 16, 2017

The first rifle that I bought to hunt deer with was a cut down 1891 DWM. The issue sights were not adequate so I added a receiver sight. With the peep I could realize the rifle's accuracy which was very good with Hornady spitzers.

It is easy to make brass from any of the .30-06 based cartridges. First run them in a 7.65 FL sizer. The end of the neck portion of the FL die leaves an impression in the brass. Cut them off slightly ahead of that impression with a small tubing cutter. That leaves the mouth turned in a bit. Use the tapered part of a punch to reopen the mouth, full length size them again then trim them. I found that method faster than RCBS's hacksaw and file trim die.

While you are at it position the shoulder for light contact with the chamber shoulder so the head does not stretch on the first shot. Afterwards only neck size and your brass will out last your interest in the rifle.

If you cast rifle bullets the mold Lee markets for .303 British is also great in Mosin Nagats, Belgium Mausers and 7.7 mm Arisakas.

DWalt · Jun 17, 2017

Basically the same method I use to make .300 Savage cases from .308/7.62 cases. I have a mini tubing cutter, works great to cut the re-formed case length to approximate final length. Then another pass through the FL die to straighten out the neck followed by final case trimming.

Vic_vega9 · Jun 19, 2017

Thanks for the help

scoobysnacker · Jun 19, 2017

I got one for around $200 shipped, the barrel is intact and good, but the stock had been cut down (I believe Montgomery Ward's sold them like that). Mine isn't the carbine, it's the full length.

Liberty Collectors (or something like that) and Sarco both sell various parts, it's possible somebody cobbled the stock together and that's why the front barrel lug looks different. Mine is a very nice shooter and the action is extremely smooth. Mine was pre-1899 (all that are marked Ludwig Loewe are), so I was able to buy it online and have it shipped to my house. Kind of neat.

Regarding ammo- if you shop around online, a number of places (sgammo, sportsmans guide, selway armory etc) sell PPU 7.65 x 53 Argentine. It's new brass, boxer primed, a good price runs you about $15 per box of 20. I've read that brass reloads fine.

1891 Loewe Berlin 8mm Mauser

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