After the reports from Las Vegas about the Slide Fire being involved in his weaponry, I imagine that will be forefront in the anti- gun attacks.
I don't own one but I believe that they will be a focus of the antis.

I would bet on it. I always thought they were silly ways to waste ammo.

Probably and the crank fire devices also!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

I hope that even if we( I ) don't own one or even like them, that we will support those that do.
One day it may involve something that we do use.
After all, it's not the gun or the mechanics of the gun, but it's all about the operator of the gun.

Slide fires mentioned in the news, but so were tripods, which would not work with each other. There's a distinct lid on what is coming out about the firearms and the perpetrator. I agree that the anti-sharks are circling and a united front response is required.

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Made it, Ma! Top of the world!

And also outlaw hammers since he used one to break the windows, or tripods. Even though I THINK those type devices just help you miss faster.

The shooter was not aiming at individuals but at a distant crowd, so dumping a bunch of bullets into the crowd, before they figured out what was happening and scattered, was probably his top priority.

I suspect we will hear more about 50 and 100 round magazines in addition to bump stocks.

I agree. He was, at least initially, engaging an area target and more rounds before they scattered was probably a key reason for the high number of casualties. A bump fired AK or AR isn't accurate, but the resulting dispersion is actually more effective on an area target. It's the reason infantry machine guns rely on some degree of dispersion and a cone of fire to be effective, rather than putting one round directly behind the last one.

If he used one, I suspect large drum magazines are going to be a serious target for the anti-gun crowd.

I don't care for the slide fire/bump fire stocks, but I think anybody who wants one should be able to own one . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Used Surefire quad mags. Left side of the purple pillar and in the rifle



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In olden times it was called "beaten zone". One of the criticisms of the Bren gun was that it was too accurate, limiting its beaten zone.

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Release the Kraken

Agreed. Essentially, this bozo was engaging "area targets" rather than aiming at any specific individual. Note that only about 10% of his victims were killed out of more than 500 actually hit (not to make light of the horrors of this violent attack, just commenting on the differences between accurately aimed fire and massive numbers of rounds launched into groups of people).

We are sure to hear of legislative proposals to regulate or ban bump stocks, semi-auto firearms in general, magazines over certain capacities, and every other knee jerk reaction following horrific acts of insane violence.

Republicans are saying they have no issue banning them so it will probably happen the first time they get a chance to vote on it.

It is unlikely anyone will say, or if anyone has even tried to determine, how many injuries were caused directly by bullets, and how many were a result of the stampede to escape? How much of the panic he caused can be attributed to just the sound of gunfire, akin to yelling "Fire" in crowded theater?

They also mentioned scopes.......he had scopes!!!!

A gun by itself will kill everyone in sight. A gun with scopes and bipod and slide fires....oh my.....will kill everyone tomorrow, today!

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Hello, I got a slide fire when they first came out. I tried it, just away to waste ammo in my opinion, I took it off and it’s back in the box on the shelf. Now might be a good time to sell it!
Gripgrabber
SEMPER PARATUS

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NRA Life Member
CPO

I respectfully have to disagree, a gun by itself doesn't kill. A human has to be involved somewhere in the equation.

None of my loaded guns ever so much as fired a single round by themselves...they just lay there.
Gary

I hate to speak for Arik, but have you ever heard of the term SARCASM?

If you haven't, I recommend that you look it up.

I realize sarcasm can at times be difficult to understand (on an online forum), but really, this wasn't that hard.

Thank you!

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Then you clearly missed the point

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The media are decidedly ignorant about firearms as we all know too well. Apparently so are most of their "experts".

The photos that have emerged thus far show tripods with cameras attached for videoing the event by the shooter, not tripods for mounting weapons. Also, at least two weapons have been shown with BIpods attached with the expected limited length typical of them for prone shooting.

Remember that the media raced to the conclusion that these were "automatic weapons" and "converted to full automatic". I told my son, after listening to audio of the shooting, that it was either binary triggers or slam fired weapons but decidedly not fully automatic fire that was occurring.

Remember, in every mass shooting the media has been completely and utterly wrong on nearly every "fact" relating to the weapons in the first 48-72 hours. Wait, be patient, and be skeptical at this point.

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Who watches the watchers?

Definitely. I thought the same thing when they mentioned tripods (but maybe they were actually bi-pods and the media just doesn't know the difference...?).

The last I've read was that he had 23 or so guns in the room, 12 with bump-fire stocks. Nothing I've read has mentioned which weapons were actually used, and that would have been immediately obvious.

One article I saw said that some weapons were "converted". It wasn't clear whether they meant converted to full-auto, or if they meant that bump-fire stocks were installed (you can never really tell what they actually mean when the media is so thoroughly clueless about guns). Very few details have been released...

Can’t evern get on the bumpfiresystems.com website......alas the run has begun.

You(all) can count on an assault on anything tactical for the next few months. I doubt they will be banned, but the shooting is an excuse not to pass pro gun legislation.

The real question that requires answers is the person. No matter the answers there will not likely be a solution.

It's already been announced that the silencer bill will not be brought before the house. I also thing the various rapid fire devices will shortly be history (that wouldn't even take an act of congress to do), and there will definitely and without any doubt shortly be a lot of attempts to ban all "large capacity" magazines.

That's both unfortunate and ignorant - in addition to being political pandering.

The sad fact is that processing all that paperwork ties up nearly 90 ATF staff who would otherwise be engaged in more productive activity preventing actual crime and enforcing more meaningful laws.

And, this guy bought his guns over a period of years and he'd have been able to get a silencer if he wanted one.

Hilary tweeted about the crowd running after they heard gunshots. However, I suspect with the guy shooting from within a room 32 floors up and 400 yards away, the crowd was responding much more to the cracks of the supersonic bullets going by then they were to the actual report of the rifle. But a quote like that will take on a life of it's own and be considered to be irrefutable fact.

Edit:

I crunched the numbers and assuming 155 dB and no damping from shooting within the room, the sound 400 yards downrange is about 100 dB - about as loud as a lawn mower. Quiet enough to be lost in the noise of a panicked crowd. The supersonic cracks the bullets however would be much more noticeable as they are much closer.

A suppressor would have reduce the noise level from the muzzle blast to about 75 dB, but it would have made zero difference from the crowd's perspective, given the very audible cracks from the bullets. The suppressor would have just done a better job of suppressing the muzzle flash.

"Crack and thump" is something that not everyone can grasp, even if they want to.

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Release the Kraken

There are some pictures going around on facebook, and I didn't see a slide fire stock. I am betting the guns were illegally modified.

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Smith..and Wesson..and myself.

No there's definitely at least one slide fire



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I agree: the mainstream media will jump at anything that sounds like it may be the answer to the alleged "machine gun" theory, to be the first network to get it out. I don't think any gadget was used; I agree with nimbly that these weapons were illegally modified.

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John

I'm not sure if you looked at the pictures Arik placed in his post, but if they are truly pictures from the scene, there is a Slide Fire clearly seen.

The Sheriff yesterday also stated that at least one rifle had a bump stock in place.

While he certainly may have modified some of his other rifles, there seems to be no doubt that at least one of those used a Slide Fire, and I'm not sure what makes you think he didn't?

Perhaps you can enlighten me to what I'm missing.

Most retailers are reporting 'Out of stock'

I actually had to watch a U-Tube vid to see these in action as I never had before. I UNDERSTAND it's not true FA fire but it sure imitates it well. Nothing against them but like others said what a WASTE of ammo! I suspect most BF stocks were installed, ran a can of ammo and were either removed or put in to the SA fire mode and left there.

Actually, one of the cell video clips one the news was recorded well back from the stage and all you hear is the sound of the gunfire, "pop pop pop..." In another clip, the sound is a sharp crackling intermixed with popping. That one was obviously recorded in the impact area. The crack is from the supersonic bullet, (and you always have to explain that you hear that first) the thump from the gunshot. The idea of the bullet getting there before the sound of the shot always seems to be a difficult concept for some folks to grasp. (You have to slowly explain supersonic means FASTER than sound, duh)

Soldiers with combat experience know the phenomenon well. The Hildebeest, instead of her predictable pandering should have "remembered" hearing that while she was running from the sniper fire in Bosnia...

Pretty much all the media reports I've seen just said "bump stocks" as opposed to slide fire, but yeah I know what you mean. When I saw the pics from the room I thought "So long, fires bump and sure."

Judging from the videos I've watched, the bump stocks are faster than the binary triggers, which have a more relaxed pace like was heard in the footage from the shooting. Not that it helps our case, but apparently the sicko didn't know how to set up the guns nor run them at their peak.

Another aspect of this is that one of the arguments against demonizing legally owned full autos was that only rich people could afford one. Now here we have a filthy rich guy who owned a couple planes using "the poor man's SAW".

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TEAM DNF

I'm by no means an expert, however, the Slide Fire is, to the best of my knowledge, a form of a "bump stock".

Perhaps you are more knowledgeable then me and can help educate me on what exactly the Slide Fire is, if not a "bump stock"?

Kleenex/tissue . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

If I am more knowledgeable than you, it's in the area of basic English skills, specifically reading comprehension.

All Slide Fires are bump fire stocks, not all bump fire stocks are Slide Fires.

Or did you really think that Jessie meant that only Slide Fires would be banned, and not any other bump fire stocks?

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TEAM DNF

Of course all Slide Fires are bump stocks, but not all bump stocks are Slide Fires, BUT what you wrote is.............

"Pretty much all the media reports I've seen just said "bump stocks" as opposed to slide fire, but yeah I know what you mean. When I saw the pics from the room I thought "So long, fires bump and sure.""

So yes, the media was correct in identifying them as "bump stocks".

Sorry if I hurt your feelings asking for a clarification on what you wrote.

I thought, perhaps, I was missing something, my mistake.

You have a great day there, secret agent man.

Endless so-called experts have been running their mouths for a couple days... I'm not sure how many of them know what they're talking about.

For example, John Lott was interviewed by the media. He was convinced it was automatic gunfire and went into explanations about the NFA and how difficult is was to acquire these type of guns. Ex Secret Service, Don Bongino, did the same.

But while I was listening to these guys I'm thinking that the rate of fire sounded slow and uneven for automatic gunfire and sounded more like a Slidefire, and because of the extended round count during firing I thought something like Magpul's drum or Surefire's 60/100 magazines were used. Just passing thoughts really, not like I had given it any serious thought like these so-called experts supposedly do. Sure enough, the pics recently released show that's what it was.

Quite frankly, I'm rather suspicious of commentary about firearms in the news, even from pro gun 'experts'.

I check slick deals gun deals daily
ARs immediately went up about $100
but some didn't
Same story after poor Steve Scalise was shot
But after a few weeks prices dropped to even lower levels
The days when the gun sellers could reap windfall profits from gun scares are over
Rep president Rep congress
only a fool would buy High now

Now the slide fire devices-yeah they will stay up
who cares-if I ever have to use my AR-don't hunt so it would be self defense
I won't want to spray 5-10 rounds at a time
and my guess is I will probably grab a hand gun-middle of suburbia don't want to carry 1000 yards kill neighbors or neighbors pets
plus handgun a lot easier to manipulate-not as easy to grab
granted much less lethal-but good enough

Could be prohibited in many states
Might even get done in by Congress

Don't have one and would be fine to see it go

I also have no problem limiting centerfire rifle mags to 10 and pistol mags to 10, 12 or 15

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Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Why?

This is the problem with gun owners. Anti gunners are united in their quest to disarm everyone. Meanwhile gun owners are ok with things getting banned as long as it's not something they're into. I don't have one either. Nor do I have an Taurus Judge or a Shockwave or any other useless gimmick (in my opinion) but I have no problems with their existence or people owning them.

Remember your pretty blued and Walnut hunting rifles are just long range sniper rifles capable of killing from miles away and chambered in calibers capable of bringing down an elephant! Those can kill several people with one bullet. What civilian needs that?

Have you seen what destructive power a shotgun has at close range? Not to mention that each shot has the potential to kill at least 8 people. That's like a full auto! What civilian needs that?

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I think the slide fire will go away. As in legislated away.
And if the suppressor bill has been tabled too, the camel's nose is definitely Under the Tent.

GF

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SWCA #2420

I am divided on this issue. On one hand I never want to give the
Anti Gun crowd an inch. On the other hand you have to look at
what's been going on with gun ownership. There is a new breed
of people that own guns. Some have bought guns for personal
protection, some for the preppers, but the ones that worry me
the most are the gamers who graduate into buying real guns.
Go on YouTube and you can view countless idiots doing all kind
of things a real gun person or Hunter would never do. People
at this IQ are scary without being mental. The general public
sees this stuff and it worries them. As in most "situations" if
you don't police yourself, it won't be long before someone is.
Because of this incident the suppressor issue will not be brought
up. Having nothing to do with the tragedy doesn't matter. There
are a lot of honest people that are afraid of guns because they
don't own any, there family never had guns, ect. These people
have no hidden agenda but are easily swayed by Anti Gun crowd.
I don't know how to react to this. My opinion is to outlaw such
devices as the bump stock and other devices to simulate full auto
fire. These devises are novelties and toys with no practical use.
There are other things on the market now that have no value as
to any practical purpose, just novelties and toys. When one of
these "things" end up connected to one of these tragedies it never fails to give Anti Gunners more ammo.

What do those gamer YouTube individuals have to do with a man in his 50s who killed 59 people for reasons yet unknown?

I agree I see no PRACTICAL use for it but I can also guarantee you that you own something I see no PRACTICAL use for

Where exactly is the connection?

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For about 3 decades I have been trying explain to people that "assault rifles" are not machine guns and cannot be easily converted to full-auto. I realize a slide stock is not true full-auto. But there is no way I will ever be able to convince anyone that heard the video that this guy did not successfully convert his gun to full auto. The effect was certainly the same.

The general public is so opposed to full auto guns being available a ban on sales of devices designed to simulate full auto is inevitable. Probably not with the current president and congress but Republicans are not going to be in power forever.

Rather than fight a losing battle I would rather see the Hearing Protection Act amended to include a ban on future sales of slide stocks and cranks. Most of the gun enthusiasts I know always oppose giving up anything but in this case we would be gaining more with suppressors than we would be giving up with Slide fire stocks. I doubt the NRA would support any sort of compromise but Trump does like to make deals.

Ban bump fire mechanisms in trade for taking silencers off the NFA list? Gun owners are such poor deal makers....

An example of a compromise would be to put bump fire mechanism on the NFA list for taking silencers off.

Since the question is "is it" rather than "should it" go away, my answer is yes. The legislation which has already been introduced will probably sail through both houses and be signed. The Hearing Protection Act will, in all likelihood, also never see the light of day again, resting in a drawer with national reciprocity.

The political reality is that an event of this magnitude will result in some kind of legislation. I was amazed Pelosi's bill wasn't just the old Assault Weapons Ban with bumps and cranks tacked on. I don't like it, but this ain't the hill I'm willing to die on. If any of you want to, have at it.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

It may not be the hill you are willing to die on, but what about the guy that has sunk his living into the slidefire, built right here in Texas and the people that his business supports? So we are just supposed to say because it does not affect me or mine that it is okay to sell these businesses down the river. I never had a use for a bump stock, didn’t evern really care whether I had one or not, but I dang sure care about the second amendment and all the things that are attached to it like accessories and the people that bring us those items in good faith and fair dealing. I put in my order the other day for several items from SlideFire not because I have to have these items but to vote with my pocketbook in support of these businesses that work within the rules and now someone one is going to change the rules on a whim.......a very slippery slope it is and if we give up even on this fight there will be another and another and soon our 2nd amendment rights will be eroded. There is not long play strategy in appeasement......history has proven that.