Hey everyone,

I am buying myself a rifle soon. I currently don't own any rifles (i only own one pistol, trying to build up as funds allow) and can't afford/justify buying more than one (there are some other things on my shopping list for this next year including a .357 carry revolver and a .45) so I really want a do-it-all hunting, truck gun, and property/home defense rifle in a caliber that will handle anything I need it to. I have narrowed down my choice to a Marlin 1895 GBL in 45-70 (i like the SBL better, but thats a big difference in cost) or a Marlin 336 BL in 30-30. I do not reload currently and my current situation does not lend itself to starting although i wouldn't mind reloading a few years from now. I live in Georgia, USA and everything around here is pretty wooded with the exception of land that has been cleared for farming so I don't expect any extremely long shots, maybe 250 yards max, and thats not very likely whatsoever. I think the 30-30 should be adequate for this area, but the 45-70 is just cool. Also, if i ever go on an out of state hunt or hike it could come in useful. The main thing keeping me from going with the 45-70 is the cost of ammo. Is it worth the extra cost in your opinion? How much more "power" does it have in real world application? Any thoughts on this dilemma? Thanks!

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Left the NRA. Joined the GOA.

I can't speak for a 30-30 but I did buy a 1895 GS 45-70 a few months ago. I will say one thing, if you're not used to a heavy recoiling rifle then the guide gun will surprise you. It did me and I routinely shoot a 30-06. I reload and cast bullets so the 45-70 was an easy choice, it has a very wide loading window. It can be down loaded to "trap door" levels which are really fun to shoot. Some of the max lever action loads will really ring your shoulder.

The 45-70 has enough power for anything in North America. Down in Georgia there probably isn't much that wouldn't fall to the lightest of loads.

In your part of the country a .30-30 is perfectly adequate for anything you could need it for, including hogs. The Marlin .45-70 is a quite light rifle for the cartridge and you will really notice the difference in recoil compared to the .30-30. Ammunition usually costs significantly more too, especially around hunting season when the most popular cartridges (.30-30, .308, .30-06, .270) go on sale and you can stock up relatively inexpensively.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

30-30 is a good starting point for the type of country you are in and useful for ever. About the cheapest ammo available when they have it on sale. Alk has it right.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Without a doubt, the .45-70 is cool!

Years ago I owned a Ruger #3 in that caliber. It's one of those rifles I wish I'd kept.

But looking at your situation, I'd go with the .30-30. You'll find yourself shooting more, the main reason being cost of ammo.

And the .30-30 is cool, too!

I own a 94 in 30-30 & it has a cool factor with a lot of history. However I also own a Browning 1886 in 45-70 & I love it. I will never sell it. It packs a lot of power in modern HSM/Buffalo Bore etc. Ammunition certainly cost more as you noted. Honestly I don’t think you can go wrong with either. Don’t let folks tell you the 45-70 is limited to 100 yards either. It works well beyond that.

Cory

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Cory
SWCA #3015 SWHF #465

The 45-70 is cool, but it’s a bad choice as a first center fire rifle.

45-70 recoil is quite stout: not a pleasant introduction to rifle shooting.

The 30-30 will readily take anything in your state or most other states.

If you actually want to shoot the rifle, get the 30-30.

If you want to shoot a few rounds and call it good for bragging that you did it get the 45-70.

The 45-70 will actually be cheaper in terms of ammo since you won’t need more than a box.

I used to own a Marlin 336 in .30-30 and loved it. Wish I hadn't traded it away. But if you don't mind more recoil, the same rifle in .35 Remington is a good one. My son has taken many Pennsylvania deer with one, and they very rarely go far when well hit.

Of your choices, I would definitely pick the .30-30.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I have shot deer with a Winchester 30-30 & a Ruger #3 45-70.
Lets say it took some time to find the deer hit with the 30-30. Not so with the 45-70, but that was my hand loads with a 560 gr lead bullet....
Big bullets always make big holes!

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

Vince Lupo of Tampa, Florida took the Big Six in Africa with a 45-70. Loaded correctly, and if the shooter's aim is true, it will stop small game as well as large and dangerous game all the way up to anything that walks the face of the earth.

I shoot a Wild West Guns custom 1895 Marlin Guide Gun, and load it with Garrett Hammerheads, ranging in weight from 420 to 540 grains, depending on the hunt. As others have mentioned, recoil, while tolerable, is not for the timid or feint of heart.

I like .308 Winchester

I'm no expert on hunting, and I don't own either a .30-30 nor a .45-70. But...if you're just getting started, you want a "do-it-all" general purpose rifle, something that's reasonably affordable to shoot and will be entertaining and enjoyable enough to keep you *wanting* to shoot it, and you're planning on getting a .357 revolver at some point anyway...why not get yourself a .357 lever action rifle?

I realize that .357 is considerably less powerful than either of the cartridges you mentioned. While you say you *currently* do not own any rifles, you don't specify if you *ever* have, nor if you have any experience firing rifles. So, I'm rather assuming you're a true beginner...if I'm wrong, then you may ignore my suggestion.

I don't know what kind of game is available in Georgia, or what other kind of game you may consider going after in other states. The answer to that may eliminate the .357 from consideration. But, as a general purpose do-it-all (within limits!) rifle that is a boatload of fun, and can be loaded with mild .38s up to full-power Magnums...it's very flexible.

And...should you get into reloading...you could start with a simple set-up with one set of dies, and be reloading for your revolver & your rifle. Seems very efficient...to me! You should also consider getting a .22 rifle, and possibly a handgun, as well! They are the best thing you can own to polish and improve on your shooting skills.

Best of luck. Don't rush into anything...enjoy the hunt!

And as far as your original question...I'd also vote for the .30-30 over the .45-70. I say this due to ammo costs, ammo availability, & recoil.

Tim

I'm for the .45-70.

The Mauser happened to share the case when I took the picture.

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If it' at all possible for you financially, I would like to respectfully suggest that you consider setting aside about $150-200 and buy a used bolt action 22 single shot rifle, of the type once commonly available. (Think about this extra cost as being equivalent to a few boxes of factory ammo, especially if you get the 45-70!)

Everyone used to make these rifles, from the big names like Remington, Winchester, Savage, etc. to lesser known brands like Glenfield, Cooey, Springfield, on and on.
They will give you the chance to really work on rifle fundamentals, not only the usual sight alignment, trigger control, but cheek weld, position shooting, etc. using low cost 22 LR ammo.

(Besides, a 22 is just a heck of a lot of fun!)

Anyhow, sorry if this is off-track.

Best Wishes with whatever path you choose,
Jim

Worth considering. From what Ive read, a .357 from a rifle length barrel can approach 30-30 power levels and offers the utility you seek with factory ammo prices that allow you to affordably plink. Something like a 20" Rossi 92 seems to fit the bill.

Or a .44 Magnum for a little more punch.

Got a 24" Rossi rifle and like it.

I am a fan of things that start with a 4! Yes the 45-70 has recoil, every gun that shoots a projectile has recoil! I own a Guide gun along with 3 other 45-70's. For factory ammo 300 grain Winchester has about the lightest recoil and the Hornady 325 Revolution has about the heaviest with the 405's in the middle. My hunting load is a butt kicker at 405 Cast at 2150 fps, but you don't have to load them hot! Heavy 44mag in a Marlin carbine kicks about like 300 factory in a Guide Gun!

My Guide Gun is an early version with factory porting. You can empty the gun with hunting loads aimed at 50 yards and hold a 1.5" group and be done in less than 2 seconds! Or slow fire and have a 3/4" group at a 100 yards! This will stop ANYTHING that thinks it wants to eat you!

The only fire power that comes close is an AR in the New 450 Bushmaster cartridge, and It can't do the heavy loads any Marlin 45-70 can!

Due to ammo price and low inventory, you will want to reload 45-70. This is an extremely easy round to load. You will want a real loading manual, not just online data, so you can compare the fine points of data. Brass life is extremely long lived, even in hot loads. I regularly use cases that are 75+ years old in my Black Powder Trapdoor and Sharps. Winchester, Remington, Federal & Star Line all make very good and affordable brass. (I never fired factory ammo until the LGS gave me a partial box with the guide gun!) Bullets are easy to cast and size! Jacketed bullets are abundant at the suppliers, weather the LGS stocks them or not!

ALL that said about 45-70, the 30-30 round is also easily reloadable, and quit accurate with quality ammo. The problem is, some of the worst Factory ammo I ever saw was Remington 30-30!

My Father still has a 1952 Winchester 94 with a Lyman receiver sight, that in the 70's he could hit silver dollars at 200 yards (his and my eyes can't do that any more!) I had a friend with a late 70's/early 80's Win 94 that would hit a barn from the inside! Marlins seem to be pretty accurate through the decades!

Hope this gives you a little info to balance the overload of disinformation!

Ivan

The 30-30 has probably put more venison on the table than any other cartridge.
Great starting point for any hunter, very versatile.

Two of the nicest elk I have ever seen were taken by a 92 year old rancher I know in North Dakota. Both shot with a .30-30 Winchester his father bought during the Roosevelt administration. TR once owned a ranch not far from him.

I have a 30-30 and a 45-70, both good calibers. The 30-30 has probably taken more deer in the eastern United States than any other caliber. The 45-70 with the right load will take anything in North America.

With factory ( Trap Door ) loads the 45-70 isn't that bad on recoil.
However, it is not what I would consider a beginners caliber.

Without knowing more about what you are wanting to do with the rifle, like others have said. I would consider / suggest a .357 or a .44 lever gun. Shoot more, cost less, more fun.

I have a .357 Rossi 92 trapper carbine that is loads of fun. With 38 spl. the recoil is like a .22. With .357's it's got some pretty good horse power. A .44 lever gun would up that horse power a bit..

If you are not totally set on a lever gun , you might consider a .357 or .44 bolt gun,, like a Ruger 77.

( edit: more fun with pictures )

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I like both but for me, it's a matter of cost. 45-70 ammo is nearly double the cost of 30-30 and since I don't have the equipment to reload, 30-30 is my best bet.

I too am in the market for a lever gun and am looking at the Marlin 336w. I know some don't like the new Marlington/Remlin guns but from all the reviews I've read and watched, this one is a good one. While I'm not crazy about the laminate stock, I do like the matte blued finish and I can always upgrade the stock at a later date if I choose.
I found one locally for $345 and if I buy it between 11/19/2017 and 11/27/2017, I can get in on the $75 mail in rebate. I already have the money set aside and that will be my Christmas present to me.

You are forgetting the .44-40.

That did that and then some.

TR also had a .45-70.

I like Marlins but...

I mean the fish. It's delicious.

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I like the 30-30 round but find the Winchester 1894 action a little clunky compared to the 1886. Love my two Browning 86s in 45-70.


With paper patched ammo they are both very accurate.

3-shot group at 100 yards after adjusting the sights.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

30-30. You said it will be your first rifle and you'll build up later as funds allow.
The 30-30 is about as perfect of a first rifle as you'll find, and if you're like me, you'll also find yourself reaching for it more than others when you head out the door.
Save the 45-70 till you have the extra cash. It would be better for monster gators and Bigfoot, but not much else.

Any wild hogs in the area? If so, what do you prefer. Tracking an angry wounded wild hog or picking it up where it fell.

That is what I mostly hunt around here. Don't care much about venisom.

Edit. Ammo price? I shoot about 50 rounds a year. Half of it for being sure where to aim at different distances.

That's funny. I have both a 357 and a 44 mag Rossi 92. I wouldn't give either of them up for a 30-30 or a 45-70. The 44 has plenty of knockdown power and the 357 is just an absolute joy to shoot. The problem right now seems to be availability. I had to pay full retail for my 357 or risk not seeing one for another year. They are really hard to find right now

I bought mine a long time ago. Don't know about present availabity.

Maybe it will be easier to find it in .45 Colt these days. And you can safely reload them for about the same power level. Just dont put them in a revolver.

I have both Winchester and Marlin rifles in .30-30. I recommend that caliber over the .45-70 for a first rifle, although the .22 recommended by another poster would be a good choice for learning to shoot a long gun.

As to the efficacy of the calibers, shot placement is critical. 250 yards is a long shot for either caliber by someone starting out. Yes, I know that the .45-70 is used by experts to 1000 yards, but we're talking a beginner here.

My limit for a clean shot with the .45-70 is 300 yards. I use iron sights so the hog will have to be very still for me to even try the shot.

Yeah...what Bullzaye said. Why not make the most of what a lever gun offers and pair it up with a nice revolver in .357 or .44 magnum. That's what made them so useful in the Old West and still useful today for the same reasons. The .357, fired from a long barrel is plenty powerful...125 grain bullet at 1800 fps...with 110 grain bullets approaching 2000 fps. And the .44 magnum with a long barrel and heavy for caliber projectiles has enough power for any type of big game. JMHO but I'd rather have 10 or 12 rounds of .357, .44 or even .45 Colt as opposed to 5 or 6 rounds of .30-30.

Sorry if I missed something but a few things are jumping out at me. 1 Gun owner? (a handgun/what caliber?) Don't own a shotgun & plan on hunting? Is that possible? $ Is an issue. In the area you posted "realistic/statistic ranges would be/ could be more in the 40- 80 yard range & VERY doable with a shotgun with slugs. SO IMO get a relatively inexpensive pump shotgun with a variety of barrels (slug, 28" bird, 20-24" for turkey/home defense. You could hunt doves to black bear with such a rig & SD with a pistol grip (or not) & a short barrel. All for less $ than a 30/30 (ammo included), for a lower end pump like a Maverick 88. Back to the OP between the 30-30 & 45-70 the 30-30 IMO (get the 45-70 later if you still have that itch). A first rifle IMO shouldn't beat you up, till you are ready.

A 30-30 is a good first hunting rifle.. Unless you are hunting Elkaphant or Moosapottamus, a 30-30 will do just fine if you do your part.


A lever action 45-70 and smokeless powder is liable make you flinch like crazy.

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Eccentric old coot

Remember, the .30-30 knocked off all the old black powder rounds, .45-70, .40-82, etc.
Considered flat-shooting in its day (inside 300 yards), it was thought of (no pun intended) as a death ray.
If you use it to put meat on the table there will be no complaints from anyone in the family about the cost.
When you do get a few dollars, a single-stage press is more than adequate for the cartridge (or any other).
Good luck.

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and what his trumpet saith

IF you are restricting yourself to Georgia, the 30-30 would be the better choice: faster handling, better penetration with equal loads, more availability and choice. The 30-30 MIGHT give you a little more range.

If you might ever use it for bigger game (or stuff that bites back)==moose. elk, bigger black bear, grizzly=then the 45-70 hands down. If cover is really think, get the 45-70.

30-30 gets a thumbs up from me. And make it a Marlin for sure. Ammo from Hornady has really improved the range of the caliber. Someone mentioned the .35 Remington. I have one & love the gun, but ammo can be hard to find.

I'll throw a different idea at you. If you want just one rifle, might have shots out to 250 yards and want to someday hunt out of State, consider a bolt action .30-06.

Ammo is inexpensive and available everywhere, it has a lot more power than a .30-30 and considerable more range than a .45-70. It may not have the "cool factor" you'd like, but it's one of the best choices for general North American hunting.

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"I also cook."

Recommending a 45-70 as a first rifle is like recommending a .44 Magnum as a first revolver. It's a great way to develop a flinch every time a gun goes off. I'm sure there are some manly men that went right to a big bore gun the first time they ever fired a gun and shot the eye out of a charging grizzle bear from 1,200 yards, but most people will benefit greatly from ramping up their caliber/recoil.

Of the 2, no brainer - get a 30-30, but the .22lr recommendation above is the best advise on here.

It sounds like you want a lever action, but if you are open to a bolt action gun, there are some very affordable guns in the .243 - .270 Win range of calibers that would work very well for anything you want to shoot in your area.

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My sgntr is mor thn 30 chrctrs

I live in Ohio, we have just recently gotten rifle deer season with
limited cartridge choice. I have many center fire hunting rifles.
I only had one legal, a Marlin 45/70. I like the gun and cartridge
but see no reason that a guy would want one for his "main" or
only rifle. There is nothing in eastern US that a 30/30 won't kill.
I would love to be able to use a 30/30 class rifle in Ohio. I still
have my 45/70 but didn't waste much time finding a legal caliber
rifle that was more pleasant to carry and shoot. The 30/30 is a
far more versatile cartridge than the 45/70. Probably the most
popular deer gun in the country.

If you are going to practice with the rifle as much as you need to (as a beginning rifle shooter planning to hunt with it), and are on a budget, get the .30-30.

I killed my first buck with a Winchester 94, one shot, the only head I ever mounted, still my proudest achievement despite many years of hunting that followed.

The .45-70 is an awesome round, and extremely versatile for a somewhat skilled rifleman. I hunted quite frequently with a Sharps replica as well as as a Marlin 1895 in later years, and the standard 300-grain HP loads from major manufacturers are great deer loads; modest recoil, and you never have to track an animal far you’ve hit properly; either they stay, the bullet just pushes them over , or there is plenty of blood.

On the other hand, buy some appropriate loads from Buffalo Bore, and the .45-70 is ready for a trip to grizzly country. It’s been used to take all Big Five in Africa from what I’ve read. As I said, extremely versatile and a great second rifle once you can afford it.

Wow! Thanks for all the responses. I do want to clarify that I am not a beginner as far as shooting rifles or recoil goes. I have shot them my entire life from a .22 to a .300 winmag and most things in between. I just have not owned one yet, either used my 12 gauge or borrowed a rifle to hunt with.

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Left the NRA. Joined the GOA.

I feel obligated to add a photo of my 1886 now that I have seen others share theirs.

Cory

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Cory
SWCA #3015 SWHF #465

Plenty of responses already but I'll give a thumbs up for the 30-30 for all the aforementioned reasons. AND not that I am partial to the 30-30 (I own three) but it is an excellent choice for a 'first' rifle especially if you already have some experience.
I am glad no one has mentioned you should get an 'AR' because (on the often repeated rational) 'It's the modern sporting rifle'

I like ARs, but .223 doesnt give me a lot of confidence if I want it to be my only rifle for a while, an AR-10 in .308 would be nice but they are really expensive.

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Left the NRA. Joined the GOA.

I don't find the recoil from my .45-70 punishing. Maybe because my "extra light" 1886 is still over 7 pounds.

I own two 45-70’s, a Ruger #1 single shot and a Winchester ‘86 lever action carbine.
I’ve shot a number of deer with both using the same load WHICH IS SAFE IN MY GUNS, a Hornady 350 grn HP with 57 grains of 3031. In my guns it’s an accurate load and one that no deer ever walked away from.
Longest shot about 125 yards, bullet lodged in the off shoulder and measured 15/16”.
Deer have probably fallen to more 30-30 rounds than other calibers but as others have noted hard to beat the 45-70 for the one gun shooter especially if one handloads.

As an afterthought, the question of whether to get a .30-30 or a .45-70 is an odd one. The two cartridges and their terminal ballistics are as different as night and day. You really need both. BUT, that said, my issue with the .30-30 is that it was/and is a very poor cartridge to have incorporated into a lever action. It may have been around 125 years, but it has a couple major flaws. It is a long cartridge - less capacity in a lever gun. It is a small diameter and fairly fast bullet - not a good choice for a tubular magazine where only flat nose bullets can be used. It is more of a flat-shooting, longer range cartridge - again, a mystery why they'd put it into a lever action with a short barrel. IDK the history of it, but I'm not sure what they were thinking when they designed a .30 caliber bottleneck cartridge for a lever gun. A 1903 Springfield with stripper clips would be superior...and history shows that the Army did exactly that.

This was an outstanding idea, and I don't know why I didn't think of it!

50 years ago, gun cranks said the 30-30 had killed more wild game than any other rifle in America.

I think this one will still do it.

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Eccentric old coot