Is it by the cartridge a gun fires, it's action, the barrel or a combination of each that determines the type of gun? In a county I hunt in, rifles aren't permitted for hunting big game. So most opt for slug guns. On savages site, their 220 is listed under center fire rifles. Which kind of makes since as it has a rifled barrel, bolt action, and magazine, and technically center fire. But shoots a shot gun cartridge. So what is it, rifle or shotgun?

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Most slug shotguns, either rifled or smoothbore have rifle type sights on the barrel. This is a broad generalization. Just about any shotgun can shoot both shot and slugs, except ones with a fixed choke tighter than cylinder.

Any gun is what the Government says what it is.

The Government has been known to "Redefine" something for "the common good." This has been and can be problematic!

Ivan

Just did a quick Google search. Looks like shotgun is smooth barrel. So rifled barrel is rifle? Firearms - Guides - Importation & Verification of Firearms - Gun Control Act Definition - Shotgun | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives





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It is a shotgun. Savage also lists it when you search 20 ga shotguns. Rifle shoots a cartridge, shotgun shoots a shell.

Absolutely not.

FYI, bolt action shotguns have been around for years in both single shot and 2 or 3 shot box magazines.

When it comes to a game warden wanting to get technical I want to know. Rifled barrel gun andertised and categorized by a retailer as a rifle. Then atf saying a shotgun is smooth barreled. I'm not saying anyone of you wrong and expected to get a decent answer which is why I ask.

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The Savage 220 is a shotgun built on a rifle action, with a rifled barrel. Any firearm is defined by the ammunition it uses. That gun is legal to use for big game where the laws restrict hunters to only use shotguns. It is extremely accurate with a scope and sabot slugs, which are designed for deer hunting with rifled barreled shotguns. Rifling refers to the grooves in the barrel, which impart spin to the slug. Most other shotguns are not rifled, and they are more apt to be used with shotgun shells with hundreds of small pellets for small game and clay targets.

I live in a state where, until this year, deer hunting was shotgun slug only and yes rifled slug barrels are legal here. It is still a shotgun. So unless your state forbids the use of a rifled shotgun barrel it is legal.
And it also comes in a 12ga.

I have no idea why that particular gun comes up under centerfire rifle when searching on Savage website.

A slug gun is a shotgun, period.

I always assumed it was by the ammunition. All my gun buds all said it was a shotgun, but couldn't say why it was. Thanks for answering the question.

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Any shotgun even with a rifled barrel is still a shotgun that shoots slugs.

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Just a shooter

If you are hunting on the ground a shotgun loaded with either shot or a slug. The shotgun is a constant and has a smoothbore barrel and the grooves on the slug itself imparts the spin.

A rifle has a rifled barrel.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Not entirely correct. A rifled slug barrel on a shotgun has rifling in the barrel and shots a sabot slug. As explained by Squarebutt

Actually there are shotguns available with rifled barrels from all the major manufacturers. They were developed to deliver better accuracy and longer range for deer hunting in "shotgun only" states. The older Foster slugs do indeed create their own spin out of smoothbore barrels. I find they work well out to 100 yards, and I've seen them drop deer beyond that range.

This went to Alaska with me last June. I jokingly refer to it as my "poor man's stopping rifle". It does, after all, have a rifled barrel.

But everyone knows it's really a shotgun. I'm not sure I could convince a game warden otherwise, and I wouldn't try.

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A shotgun that has a rifled barrel that shoots the sabot slugs is a slug gun.
I don’t think anyone shoots shot out of a rifled barrel.

I was told to use the german slugs in the smoothbore barrels these are very accurate and they tend to whistle.

I tried the sabot slugs out of my smoothbore Winchester model 120 with the slug barrel and it was accurate out to 50yds. I didn’t go any farther. No scope.

Sabots are designed for rifled slug barrels, they have no advantage in a smooth bore.

I'm leaning towards the OP's question being a fair & honest one, but I agree with pawn gal regardless of what mr google says, a shotgun is a shotgun with whatever type of barrel. (JUST MY OPINION) Would a smoothbore musket be considered a shotgun, a rifle, or neither? Lines can get a bit blurred, so fair question. Speaking with a hard headed warden in the field??? It is whatever HE says it is & they won't all agree with each other. Want to argue the point, do it with a judge or game official officer or whatever you have wherever you are from.

Good bear stopper.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

I am temped to bring up the old bore guns and paradox guns and really screw up this conversation. But I will pass. Have fun!

Lines are getting blurred. Take 2 mossbergs with 24" smoothbore barrels, 1 has a cheap set of open rifle type sights, the other a front bead, 1 is a "slug gun the other not??? Then ALL the turkey hunters firing shot thru smoothbores WITH optics are using "slug guns"? I've gone back full circle to using rifled slugs thru a smoothbore & leaving the rifled/scoped bbl to collect dust. My 10-40 yard shots don't require a 3$+ shell. Give Dixie tri-balls a try, (NOT cheap either) it's like firing 3 slugs at once & will keep a pie plate group to 40 yards, maybe more. Confused yet? What do you call a police riot shotgun designed/intended to use slugs/buckshot/non lethal ammo?

I say that if you want a definitive answer on this where you live, call your state's Wildlife and Fisheries department and put it to them directly. That way you should remove all doubt.

There are some weird laws/rules out there like Pa's laws against semi autos...but I know of no state that considers a rifled slug bbl to be in essence a rifle. Good grief..if that were the case Maryland would have outlawed rifled bbls for deer hunting...but of course they didn't. I saw discussion of this quite a few years ago and all states contacted considered a rifled barrel for a shotgun didn't change the fact it was a shotgun. Somewhere I saw a shotgun only state was going to allow rifles to be used only from elevated tree stands(cause they are shooting at a downward angle??). To be honest shooting rifled slugs through a rifled barrel is a waste. They lead the bore badly for the most part and quickly become not so accurate. My 11-87 slug gun(rifled) was a consistently accurate firearm for deer up to 200 yds with the right sabot. Like rifles they seem to shoot some sabot slugs better than others. As far as sabots being inaccurate in smooth bores...not really true. Best to use open chokes but I used the police sabots that S&W sold way back when in a skeet gun with a weaver scope mount of the 1100/870. I shot out to 150 yds with that gun on walking/standing deer and it was a great shooter. Sneaking through the woods in cover I still used a skeet gun no scope with Foster slugs to shoot many deer. When I helped a fellow field dress an elk this year I had my trusty old 1100 with a skeet bbl and 8 round mag ext(3 extra) on it with foster slugs. My daughter has the 11-87 slug gun and shoots her deer every year with it. Md and Delaware both consider it a shotgun. Still have a few boxes of those old S&W sabot slugs left. They were made by BRI and marketed by S&W..Mainly for the police market. There were no commercial rifled bbls commonly made at the time. But they did drive the market to the future of deer hunting with shotguns

As far as making the determination for legal purposes is concerned, to keep within the game law definitions, it is extremely simple!

If the firearm caliber is designated by "Gauge". 12 Ga, 16 Ga, 20 Ga, etc. it is a shotgun. Sights, rifling, etc. have nothing to do with it.

If defined by "Caliber", .22, .30, 45, and shoots a metallic cartridge, then it is a rifle.

Just that simple, and why game laws don't get into it farther than simply stating an area, state, etc,. is shotgun only. They believe the definition is "common knowledge" and need not be defined or explained further!

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Folks, let's keep the old adage "There's no such thing as a dumb question" in mind here, along with the fact that this forum has a reputation as being one of the most friendly forums on the internet. People ask questions because they don't know and rely on others to help provide the knowledge they seek. We've all been there.

Please keep the discussion friendly.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

I'm going to ask our game officials today just to see what their response is. Just as an fyi: for my last 35 years it's always just been a shotgun to me. As others have mentioned, I ask for shells for the slug gun. But we have always questioned why our county would allow us to use slugs but not rifles. Our New England Arms slug gun has a 1" pattern at 100yrds. Looking at new slug guns being sold as rifles really had us scratching our heads wondering if we were wrong all these years. I think the officials will same the same we have. But we have our share of the, I know more than you and you are getting a citation, wardens around here.

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I agree, check with the game officials in your area. I'd call ahead and get an OK to bring the gun or guns in question to their office to be sure you are all on the same page. Be sure to note the name of the official who gives you the OK, if one does. No sense risking fines and or confiscation.
Steve W

The oringal contention here was that Savage listed the Model 220 on their website under centerfire rifles (as well as shotguns) I emailed Savage and asked them why. If I get an answer I will post it here.

Carry a COPY of it with you in the field. No warden wants to be proven wrong, so it may be best to show it to a judge later. Right or wrong it shows you made an attempt to follow the law.

Craver, if you were to post where you would be using a shotgun with a rifled slug barrel and what you would be hunting would be useful. Or you could research the state/county/local laws.

Rifled slugs are safe to shoot out of full choke barrels.

Even ones with a Full choke can shoot slugs safely. Whether it will be accurate is something else entirely.

Not so sure I'd want to test the theory with a sabot slug, where you would need to take the diameter of the slug & sabot into account, or with a tighter turkey choke. Yes I'm OCD enough to cut open a 3+$ round & measure them. OCD VS being cheap, a battle for ages.

Sabot slugs get through a rifled barrel which has the appropriate diameter.

I think this is a very good example of a simple, common sense definition!

This isn’t a technical gun question so much as a question about what the specific state means when it describes legal firearms.

Check with the game and fish folks about what they include in their definition of shotgun: what’s legal in their eyes.

According to the feds, the gun mentioned by the OP would appear to be a rifle:

18 U.S. Code § 921 - Definitions

(a) As used in this chapter—

Paragraph a(5) The term “shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

Paragraph a(7) The term “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

If you want to stay out of trouble with a given state in a rifle vs. shotgun issue, you'd want to read that state's definitions.

If it wasn't for that pesky .410!

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Because of the metric system?

It is a shotgun with a rifled barrel for sabot slugs. With a few exceptions, rifles with a bore over .50 are classified as "destructive devices" and require a tax stamp. Shotguns are exempt from that classification.

Craver, I’ll bet you a cup of coffee they will tell you that you are not the first person to ask that question. In spite of what some have said, it’s a good question. Game officials may very well have a different definition than ATF. And for your purpose, THAT’S the one that counts.

And just for fun, next time someone buys a “rifled slug gun” look on the 4473 and see what it is called. Let us know.

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Reg. Magnum wants/Rossi wallet

Just to add some more peculiars to the mix....
For as long as I can remember Iowa was shotgun only for deer (Yes, rifled slug barrels included)
Then handguns allowed in calibers over .357 mag
This year rifles allowed allowed using straight wall cartridges as follows:
this list
that meet the straight-walled cartridge criteria
in the next section below: .357 Magnum, .357
Maximum, .375 Winchester, .38 Super, .40 S&W,
.401 Powermag, 10 mm Auto, .41 Remington
Magnum, .41 Action Express, .44 S&W Special,
.44 Remington Magnum, .44 Automag, .444
Marlin, .445 Super Mag, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45
Super Mag, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Silhouette,
.450 Bushmaster, .451 Detonics, .454
Casull, .45-70 Govt., .460 Rowland, .460 S&W
Mag, .475 Widley Magnum, .475 Linebaugh,
.480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, .50 Linebaugh,
.50 Beowulf and .500 S&W Mag

Early season ended yesterday. Haven't heard any local reports.

Been an FFL holder for 26 years, rifled slug gun is listed on the 4473 as a shotgun.

So, let's add some more confusion to the topic. Let's say I have a .357 lever action rifle. Let's say I have some .357 snake loads (which I do have). According to the Fed definition, if taken literally, when I shoot the snake loads in my lever action rifle, it becomes a lever action shotgun???

In spite of "definitions", (and in spite of bureaucrats), a little common sense goes a long way. If a gun is designed to shoot shotgun shells, it is a shotgun. If a gun is designed to shoot rifle cartridges, it is a rifle. I know one thing for sure. I have hunted deer in Illinois since 1993, with a shotgun that has a rifled barrel. It is still a shotgun.

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SWCA 3297 SWHF 583

County or state law. What state? What county? I can't believe this thread has gone on this long with all the irrelevant and erroneous statements. So far, only Rpg, Ivan the Butcher and Bugkiller99 have given useful answers. Most of the others are outright wrong

What the ATF or any federal law says about what's a rifle and what's a shotgun means nothing if the county or state law says different for the purpose of the hunting law or regulation by which you are bound.

So.... Did you get an answer as it applies in your particular state/county?

OK, so I take my rifled barreled "shotgun" and fire a single projectile slug thru it and it becomes a rifle? Take the SAME gun & fire a round of birdshot down the rifled bbl & it turns back into a shotgun again? If you own multiple rifled and smoothbore barrels for this "shotgun" will trying to over think this make your head explode?

This not a theory, it is a FACT.
When rifled slugs came out most shotguns had FULL chokes. That is the reason they have the fins on them so they can swag down to safely fit any bore to include FULL. There where no slug barrel's when foster slugs came out so they had to work in all chokes at that time.

Now take your OCD and apply it to reading comprehension, I said RIFLED slug not SABOT and FULL choke not TURKEY FULL they are different.

Originally Posted by Alk8944 View Post
If the firearm caliber is designated by "Gauge". 12 Ga, 16 Ga, 20 Ga, etc. it is a shotgun. Sights, rifling, etc. have nothing to do with it.
If defined by "Caliber", .22, .30, 45, and shoots a metallic cartridge, then it is a rifle.


Sorry, nothing in this ole world is cut and dried, ie: a shotgun with a bore of .410".

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

And I said sabot, NOT rifled slug. Really want to do this on the open forum? If you feel slighted in some way, shoot me a PM.
Was attacking my reading comp really called for? I WAS NOT referencing your post, per say BM. On a side note, shotgun shells have been made with paper/plastic & brass hulls just to keep things interesting. Before anyone starts nit picking about the term shells, I aint talkin bout sea shells.