It is really sad what the Freedom Group has done to them since the purchase. I only have 1 Remington product left and that is a 700 BDL bought new in the mid 90s. It is a very nice rifle with quality craftsmanship.

I saw this today for $920......note the ridges around the ejection port. The crown was also ****.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

And how did they try to improve their firm? Simple: Hire the guy who ran Taurus for years.

Here's your sign...

Welcome to the world of firearms made by robots....

It really is sad. I grew up on Remington. My first rifle was Viper and I loved it, as well as the 870 Express shotguns. Now it seems Remington has messed up so much lately I even question if I can trust the ammo they make anymore. I find myself loading Winchester or Federal more often now.

I read somewhere they messed up Marlin as well.

Yeah, they have really went down hill. The 870s and, the 700s aren't what they used to be QC wise. I'm speaking from experience. I also looked at a Model Seven a couple of years ago, that had finish issues, and it was new. I may not buy a new Remington again. If I do it will be one that I have "looked over" first.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

I recently bought an 870 (Tac-14) and have owned 870s in the past.The Tac-14 feels like it needs about 10k rounds to break in. It is not even close to being as smooth as the oldies. Oh well..progress..

I’ve bought two 870s over the course of the past ten years and both guns were identical (Express models) with the green-ish parkerized (but not parkerized) finish. Both guns would rust consistently even after being oiled and wiped down. Finally had both duracoated. Don’t plan on ever buying a new Remington again as FM has attempted to cut costs way too much at the shooters expense.

I’ve heard similar stories about Marlin, although I don’t have any firsthand experience.

__________________
Some Might Say.

Maybe it is just nostalgia kicking in, but it sure seems like Remington was better as a DuPont company rather than a Freedom company.

I bought an 870 Express in 2008 and it doesn't have a speck of rust on it. And that was after Freedom Group took over. I will admit I oiled it down about 50 times after buying it because that's the kind of finish it has. I learned a long time ago that parkerized stuff needs to hold a lot of oil to work well. So every time I shot it I oiled it down. I only stopped when it became clear it wasn't holding more oil. I haven't oiled it since and again it is totally rust free.

I've bought several new Marlins in that same time period and none of them have rusted. I had one that had a firing pin problem but no company is perfect. I probably bought 8 new Marlins in that time period. I sold or gave away several so I can't say what happened to them but the 60SS I bought is a great shooter. It needs to be cleaned more than my early 90's Marlin but it is a lot more accurate. If I'm going squirrel hunting I'm taking one of my Marlins. The last squirrel I shot was from about 40 yards. I shot it with the 60SS. I aimed for the ear and I hit it exactly in the ear and the squirrel dropped without taking a step.

I will no longer buy Bushmaster. Used to be a HUGE Bushmaster fan.........key word, USED to be.

I've seen some real garbage bearing the Bushmaster logo in recent years.

__________________
Un-Reconstructed Southerner

I bought my first Remington in years recently. The often cussed R51 9mm pistol. I haven't had a chance to shoot it extensively but I did manage to shoot about 80 rounds of mixed reloads with it. Not a problem one. Good shooting gun from all I could tell. No rust issues.

Now the bad side. One of the two magazines that came with the gun was defective. I contacted Remington and they sent me two new mags, no charge. That took less than a week from the email to delivery.

I haven't looked at a rifle or shotgun for a long time, so I can't comment on them.

__________________
John 3:16 .

"The often cussed R51 9mm pistol. I haven't had a chance to shoot it extensively but I did manage to shoot about 80 rounds of mixed reloads with it. Not a problem one."

I plan to buy the next R51 that comes along at a good price (meaning $300-$325). I have fired several hundred rounds through a friend's R51 and it ran 100% and I really like its feel in the hand. I have two of the early Model 51s in .380 and have always admired them.

And this is exactly why I like VINTAGE Firearms........

All my favorite firearms are 20+ years old.

I bought a Rem 700 SPS in .308 about five years ago and ended up having to replace the trigger/safety and the stock. So now I have $1,400 in a $800 rifle before a scope. I let Remington know what I did (had to do) and I'm still waiting on a reply.



I think most of the manufacturers are cutting costs to the point of cutting their own throats. Just my opinion.

__________________
Isaiah 41:10

I don't own either, but the RM380s and RP9s I've seen and shot at my local club, when cleaned, lubed, and fed "quality ammo", are running just fine.




As far as defensive shotguns go, for me it's ol' reliable, my 870 Police, then, now, always.

Attached Images

	IMG_5823.jpg (54.9 KB, 48 views)
	IMG_5826.jpg (109.9 KB, 48 views)
	IMG_5821.jpg (225.1 KB, 48 views)

__________________
Ad Astra Per Aspera

The company doesn't even resemble our father's Remington. The company that could make many things very well.

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Yeah it's a whole lot easier to know what's good and what isn't if it's been around a while and been well sorted out. But some of my best guns are new guns. Or they were new when I bought them anyway.

There's several owners reporting issues with the mags, including myself, on the Remington forums. I have about 800 rounds through my R51 and one mag will cause a FTF (stovepipe) on the last round 25% of the time. Several owners are still reporting nosedive problems. This happens even with Remington ammo as they suggest using.

Remington claims, before the gen-2 release, during pre-production, that they fired 1.3 million rounds during testing. Said they also select 10 guns per day during production and fire 500-1000 rounds through them. They either lied about this, have ignored problems, or are just using known good mags.

I think Big Green excepted a certain number of fails just to expedite pushing the gen-2 R51 out the door.

I bought a Marlin 1895 a while back. Kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Have to say, no problems yet, but it has seen limited use. I do not have that same feeling about my Henry .30-30

I have to say that "in general" the American firearms company's have really let themselves fall prey to foreign companies and assisted in their demise by poor design, poor quality, poor planning, poor financial advise and blindness to future trends.

While I am no fan of Ruger, I will say they are the exception to my statement above. I don't like Ruger designs, triggers and casting process but no one can say their company has not greatly improved in all aspects over the last 10 years! I'm still not ready to buy a Ruger but I take my hat off to them and salute their company's awareness of market trend, constant improvements and LISTENING to what people want. They are a great company in terms of staying and growing in business!

Marlin, Remington, Winchester all have cut their quality and product lines to bare bones. Colt produces excellent 1911's and SAA's (actually about the best I've ever seen out of the box in 40 years) but not much else! Smith & Wesson...... well we all read the problems, complaints and comments right here concerning their QC and cheapening of manufacturing.

I'm afraid that we've long seen the hay day of the American gun manufactures and will unfortunately be watching them fade away and down size as restrictions, laws, foreign company's and political climate limit us to what we can legally own. I wish it weren't this way! I wish I had a better outlook for our hobby. I wish there could be a huge turn around for the old company's we all grew up with and own products from. The reality (as I see it) just doesn't support that unfortunately......... I SINCERELY HOPE I AM WRONG HERE!!!

It is sad to see what Remington has become.

Mismanagement and poor decisions (ie..the model 700 trigger debacle) coupled with poor QC of their ammo and firearms manufacturing has made them a 2nd rate company IMO.

Some of my favorite guns are older Remingtons, but I don't trust any of their guns made since the mid-1990's and the quality of their ammo sucks IMO. Sad, Sad, Sad!!!


Don

__________________
Laus Deo! <><

The only good thing for me and probably many of the older guys here is that we already own most of what we had our hearts set on getting. Yes, there will always be a wish list - but I am quite happy with my collection as it stands and if I never bought another firearm I could be quite content with just shooting and caring for the ones I do own.

That said, I always have my eyes opened.

I never was a big Remington fan. While I do like a lot of their
Pre War guns, the newer stamped parts guns were not in the
same class. I noticed Rems starting to slide in late 80s. Was in
business then and got some lemon 700s and the 11-87 shotgun
was a bust. I have a 870 bought in 66 that is like a custom gun
compared to today's production. The only 2 Rems post war that
I own is that 870 and a 1100, bought in 80. Remington had it
all and let it slip away through bad QC. They have had the brown
touch on the other gun companies they took over. Ruined Marlin
and shut down H&R. Seems like they are trying to win the race
to the bottom. Who would have thunk that Mossberg would leed
shotgun sales with 500 series and Savage in rifles with 110. It
hasn't been that long ago that these were considered second rate. To my way of thinking they haven't gotten any better, it's
just that the others have gotten that much worse.

As a long time fan of Remington it pains me to read the posts of bad QC and another gun maker in financial trouble. Own the older 700, 1100, and a Model Four from around the 81-84 vintage which exhibit fine workmanship and reliable functioning. Sure hope we see better QC and management down the road.

I can't comment on the current Remingtons as I only own a couple of older ones.... ( M1902 Rolling Block and a converted 1858 (?) Army)

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

The only new Remington I’ve bought recently is a 1911R1, and it has been flawless.

__________________
“What you got, ain’t new.”

Many people buy guns and never shoot them. Maybe it’s good business for the manufacturers to cut corners.

__________________
Just hanging with my dogs

I own an original Remington 51 .38 pistol made long before I was born, and a CHP surplus 870 shotgun which is ugly but in fine working condition. There is a line between having a firearms company run by firearms people and a firearms company run by bean counters. You can't make guns if you can't stay in business, but people won't buy your guns if you sell overpriced junk, or even for the most part fairly priced junk. I am pretty sure that Remington has not succeeded in staying on the right side of that line.

My last Remington Gun purchase was a CDL rifle in 35 Whelen and it had one of their defective triggers. The gun would go off sometimes when you let the safety off. They didn't do anything to correct the situation so I had a Timney Trigger installed and vowed to never buy another Remington gun purchase.

I purchased in ‘94 a new rem 700 in 338wm, she will put two bullets through the same hole at 100yds using over the counter ne Winchester super X ammo.

I heard soon after my purchase they got rid of there QC department.

On there anniversary sale I purchased a new 1100 shotgun. I went through three of them till one cycled. Then i pawned it. The store wouldn’t give me my money back. No more remchesters for me.

The one "shining star" at Remington may be their 1911 line. I have three of them and I'm impressed with them. Flawless function with good accuracy. In my opinion a very good bang for your buck. With the 700 decline I was very happy to find a very nice older LNIB 700 BDL in .308 Win two years ago, well worth the $650.00 price tag.

__________________
Stay safe people!

To those commenting about Marlin, yes, Remington makes Marlin guns but all are owned by the Freedom Group investment firm.
The new Marlins are horrid. Thankfully, I have a mid 60s vintage 336 30-30. It is the rifle that both my father and I took our first deer with.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

I only have one , a 700 BDL 30-06 bought new in the early 70's . Still very accurate , but the throats getting rough . 5 or 6 rounds of Sweets 762 to get all the copper out . First 15 rounds are tight , but she starts to open up after that . OK for a hunting rifle as I rarely shoot that many during a season including verifying scope zero . Been thinking about rebarreling , but for me costs are a consideration .
Seriously if I were considering a new rifle bolt action I'd look at Savage , Tikka or Howa in my price range . Lever gun I'd go with Henry . Too bad none makes a lever in 44mag with the right twist rate for heavier bullets , but was told by a Henry rep to be patient as it was in the works .

My current "go to" rifle is a Sako M995 in .300 Win Mag. I will never buy Remington again.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

I am not a sophisticate when it comes to firearms. I have many of various brands, mostly handguns but some rifles and shotguns. I can't tell the difference between a 4.5 lb trigger and and 5.5 lb trigger as so many claim they can.

What I do know is that I have a Rem. 870 in 20gauge and 783 in .22-250, Marlin 1894 in .44 Mag; and Rem. RM380 (2each), R51 gen 2, and a new RP9. I haven't had a single problem with any of them.

Can the rifles shoot as good as an older Remington? Don't know. All of them shoot better than I can. I just put 100 rounds through the RP9 at the NRA range here in Fairfax using 147 grn Winchester Ranger SXT (they smoke a lot) and didn't have any malfunctions. If you look on YouTube this model was trashed but later vindicated once Remington got going on full production.

I admit the original R51, produced from the Para Ordnance acquisition manufacture plant, had lots of flaws. I think Para Ordnance move from Canada to the Carolinas was the doom of the company. Add to that Remington had that group make the R51 and it just spelled disaster.

Anyway, I imagine there was a reason for the $100 rebate on the non-1911 handguns for Black Friday and Christmas. Probably excess inventory and cash flow problems. But for me, that means I'm into my second RM380 for a whooping $205 and that RP9 that ran flawless so far for a staggering $190!

I wish everyone Peace and Good Shooting with whatever Remington you're stuck with. As for me, I'm doing fine with my Rems, SIGs and S&Ws! (a new Md 686 Plus Deluxe with 3" barrel residing in my safe right now)

Chris

Very sad.

My first ever gun purchase was a Remington Model 788 in .308 Winchester and it sits ready to go in my safe - it has never failed me. But that was more than 45 years ago!

I do have a nice ADL in .223 that I bought when they were discontinuing the ADL - it had a magazine problem, easily remedied, and it is a fine varmint gun. My other Remingtons are all older 870s. I probably won't buy any more but, then again, there is this:
I cannot argue with any of that.

Ummm,

Haven’t we had this very same “conversation” with the various iterations of our beloved Smith&Wesson over the years?

I think Savage has done exceptionally well over the past decade or so. They have put some guns on the market that are at least as good as anything Remington ever made. I have 2 of them. In particular the Savage 12 LRPV .223 I have is an amazing rifle. I shot a 1" group at 500 yards with it but that was the exceptional group of course. Still it averages about a 5" group at that distance. Here's someone shooting the exact rifle I have at 450 yards. Everything about that rifle is quality.

Savage Arms Model 12 LRPV at 450yds - YouTube

Here's a 4 shot group (ran out of ammo) I shot with my Savage MkIIBTV .22 at 50 yards. I've shot a lot of really good groups with that rifle. The group is basically one bullet hole. That rifle isn't the best made .22 I own but it's the most accurate except for maybe my Stevens 15-A. My CZ 453 is really close but not quite.

I have a 10 year old Remington 700 sps when they offered the 17 fireball chambering. With an HS precision stock and jewell trigger the gun shoots lights out. Easily my favorite close range varmint rifle. No complaints with it at all.

Also last year I bought a Marlin 1895 GS. I didn't order it... and really didn't need a 45-70 for anything but I looked the gun over and it just spoke to me. With a $100 mail in rebate I couldn't say no. (The check came fast!)

Those are my only experiences with the company. I don't have any personal complaints but if I was going to steer someone towards a good shooting factory bolt action rifle, I'd tell them Savage or nothing.

Well, I've got a mid 90's vintage 11-87 SP that I gave my son. He loves it and I've been trying to get it back from him ever since. Softest shooting 12 ever. Have an 870 early 2000's that isn't anything special, just a good old 870. Based on reports I probably would not buy a new one-but to be honest the only thing Remington ever made that interested me was the 870 and the 1100/11-87 shotguns. Never was a bit 700 man

__________________
Forum consigliere

My first firearm is a Remington 582, 22 caliber bolt action I received Christmas 1966. I had turned 16 in October. With my cheap little K-Mart 4 power scope, I joined the shooting world.

It is still a jewel today (at least in my eyes) and this past Christmas I have had it for fifty years.

I can truly say, back in the day.

__________________
I am a sheep dog!
1601 (ret)

I have bought a recent production 870 Police and 1100 Tactical.

Both have been fantastic. But I would never buy some of their other offerings like most of their handguns and apparently now their rifles.

FWIW there are just a few parts that are different on the Express compared to the Police. Those parts can be bought for around $35. I have the list of parts. This info came to me from a very well known armorer who converts one model to the other very often or he did when I converted mine about 8 years ago. The extractor on the Express is MIM which is the main concern.

There are a few other parts that can be upgraded to make the Express essentially a Police model and it's considerably cheaper. The carrier dog spring, the magazine spring and the milled extractor I already mentioned. The trigger group is plastic based on the Express but it is just as good as the metal version on the Police and the Wingmaster models.

The Express really can't be the full equal of the Police gun because the parts are polished better and things like that on the Police. But with enough use the polishing isn't an issue anymore.

All this info may be outdated now but I went through the steps to upgrade to be nearly as good as the Police. If anyone is interested I can re-post the instructions I got to upgrade the parts.

I've a Remington Sendero in 308 that I bought about 14 years ago when Jumbo sports in Lafayette Louisiana was going out of business. Never could get it below 1.5". Also had a Winchester model 70 also in 308 that had pits in the barrel. They at the time were getting started with hammer forged barrels and sent it back. New barrel still had pits. That one went down the road with full disclosure. Also had a Steyr in 30-06 which shot great but kept getting a wedding ring on the brass. Ended up getting a Sako 75 in 30-06 and it shoots extremely well. My 870 express feels like it has gravel in it. My old 870 (25 years) runs like greased lightening. Even the old 870 police guns I have with the same serial suffix as the old 870 run smooth. Haven't bought a new firearm in years content with all. Even my old Savage 110FP in 308 shoots very well. Think Remington has a huge debt and making their firearms on the cheap. Frank

Probably for many of the reasons listed above but I've had problems with at least seven recent production- within last five years- 870's either breaking or busting loose the ejectors of my agency-issued 14" guns. It's a phenomenon I've never seen before despite seeing only perfect function out of guns fifteen and twenty years old with thousands of rounds through them. Only Federal and Winchester factory brand buckshot and slugs. Frustrating to say the least...

I have owned some decent older remingtons, nothing newer than late 80s, but IMO the best ever was the model 30, loved them old enfields

coke can off hand at 100 yds with a open sighted 30.06, on a snap shot simple as eating your favorite pie

Well, to be fair, I got my R51 used, so I have no idea if someone swapped out a magazine or if it came from the factory that way. I was told the gen 1 and gen 2 mags have different baseplates. If that's so, I have one of each, with the one that's defective being the flat base "gen 1."

That magazine was simply too tight. The rounds wouldn't even go in past about two or three. If I pushed them down further, they got stuck and I had to take the magazine apart to unload it, and had to push the rounds out with a pencil then.

The two new ones work fine, at least as far as loading/unloading them goes. I haven't had a chance to shoot them yet, but they're just like the one I've got that works.

I've never fired anything in mine but reloads. Some were commercial reloads from the range, the others were my own, mixed HP and RN.

__________________
John 3:16 .

The only Remington I have left is a bull barrel 1980 vintage BDL 700 in 22-250 that Remington has had to put three new triggers in. I bought it from a dear departed friend who was almost my second father so I'll never sell it. It is scary accurate.

I think Remington"s troubles started with the 700 series triggers. Nothing says big trouble like having the rifle go off when you take the safety off.

__________________
LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

I have a RM 380 and in my opinion it is almost flawless. Just saying.

I bought an 870 Police Magnum last year and it's flawless. I also bought a 700VLS about 8 years ago and it is also flawless. Both are great guns. I also plan on getting a R51 when the rebate comes out again.