Why are 9mm pistols ‘more reliable’?

American1776

American1776

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I’ll proviso with this: I love 45 auto. That said, I get the impression that .45 auto models, when compared to 9mm counterparts, are less reliable. Here are examples:

SIG P226 vs SIG P220: while both are reliable guns, there are many reasons to think the p226 is more reliable compared to the P220.

1911: I love my 1911s. But to be honest, it’s not a platform that’s as consistently reliable as others. Of all the modern handguns that have problems, the 1911 tips them. This is not to say some are not 100 percent. Some are. But many are not, even the top shelf ones. Blaming the magazines, the ammo, or the extractor tension only proves how ‘finicky’ the 1911 tends to be.

CZ 75 vs 97: the CZ 75 is a legend in reliable 9mms. The CZ 97 seems to get more varied reports in reliability, especially with JHP

Glock 17 vs 21: the 45 Glocks seem to have more problems than the 9mm counterparts. This is not a controversial statement

The only 45 autos that seem to really shine no matter what are: S&w 45xx series, HK USP, and Ruger P90.

Think of the Beretta M9 (13,000 rounds before stoppage), Glock 17, and the old German SIG p226/228. There are more ultra reliable 9mms than there are 45s.

Opinions? Why do 45 pistols seem less reliable compared to 9mm
 
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I own five 45 acps, including a 1911, a 1911 clone, a Star, a Ruger P series, and an Argy 1911. They all are nearly 100% with jacketed and 95% with cast lead.

In contrast, I have four 9mms - a mod 39-2, another Star, P38, and a P08. They all are finicky and require a different loading for each.

So my theory is the opposite of yours.
 
This is only theoretical, based on what I've read. I have no idea how accurate these ideas are, so take them for what they're worth.

One reason I've read has to do with the length-to-diameter ratio. Supposedly, the .45ACP is a short, fat round, so it can be trickier to get to feed reliably.

Another reason I've read is that the 9mm casing is slightly tapered, narrower in the case mouth than at the rim, so it (supposedly) has an easier time getting into the chamber than the straight-walled .45ACP.

Now with the Beretta 92 series guns, being the owner of a 92FS I can say that one reason for their reputation for reliability is that a round being stripped out of the magazine has nearly a straight shot into the chamber. It doesn't require as much of a "bounce" off the feed ramp like the .45 does in a 1911. I can't say if this applies to other 9mm guns or non-1911 .45s.

Again, I don't know how accurate these ideas are, but they're the ones I've come across.
 
This is news to me. If there is truth to reliability issues it can not be significant. Lots of Elite Military/LE use 45 acp. I have never heard a Glock 17 is more reliable than a Glock 21. ? .001% ?
 
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All depends on what you read and where. I not had any issues with my Sig 220s, 229 .357, or CZ 9s or .40

I have read of trouble with all brands and calibers. I have yet to see any scientific evidence of any this vs that.
 
I've always read that the slight taper of the 9mm gives it a reliability edge. Even read it on the net once, so it has to be true!
 
Frankly, my experience has been quite the opposite with 9mm's being significantly more finicky about overall length, bullet shape/type and very small differences in powder charge.
I've got about a dozen guns in each caliber and do not have a gun-by-gun comparison but significant range time shows this to generally be the case.
 
The slight taper of the 9mm, and the length to diameter ratio, makes sense.

Look, I'm not saying .45 is an unreliable round. I'm not saying that SIG P220s or 1911's are unreliable. I'm not saying that there are 1911's that can't go 10,000s of thousands of trouble free rounds.

It's like when someone says, 'Men, in general, are taller than women', and then someone raises their hand and insists that opinions mean didly because they know a very tall woman.

In general, it's harder for me to find ultra reliable 45 auto pistols, or as many of them, as there are 9mms.

Here's another way to think about it: If you had to carry a NIB pistol without test firing it, which one would you pick: A Beretta m9 or a Colt 1911? Sure, there are plenty of ultra reliable 1911s. But statistically, i'll go with the 9mm Beretta. Same with Glock 17 vs 21.

Just my observation
 
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I'm in the camp.....

...I shoot more 9mm guns than .45s. All of the 9mms are 'different' from each other. Some will eat anything very reliably and some are picky. But then I shoot ALL KINDS of ammo, bought and reloaded. I'm in the camp that can't make a blanket statement about 9mms being more reliable than .45s. If I had one gun, 9 or .45, I'd buy and make ammo specifically for that gun, but I don't just own one gun. I've got too many in fact, and have a hard time getting good at any one of them.
 
Frankly, they aren't...

Seriously, you're comparing a .45 made in the early 1900s to 9mm made in the 80s and are arriving at the conclusion that the 9mm cartridge is more reliable based on that?

Heck, you even point out how modern .45s like the H&K USP are perfectly reliable, yet somehow you overlook the fact that your whole basis for the .45 ACP cartridge's supposed unreliability is by and large based on the fact that .45 auto pistols are less reliable than much more recently produced 9mm pistols.

As for the CZ75 vs the CZ97, well... Seeing as the CZ97 is just a scaled up CZ75B despite the fact that the 9mm Luger is a completely different cartridge with a completely different shape which operates at significantly higher chamber pressures, reliability is about as good as you can expect. Typically, firearms which are modified for completely different cartridges don't perform as well as the original chambering.
 
Dirty Harry Callahan said:
Frankly, they aren't...

Seriously, you're comparing a .45 made in the early 1900s to 9mm made in the 80s and are arriving at the conclusion that the 9mm cartridge is more reliable based on that?

Heck, you even point out how modern .45s like the H&K USP are perfectly reliable, yet somehow you overlook the fact that your whole basis for the .45 ACP cartridge's supposed unreliability is by and large based on the fact that .45 auto pistols are less reliable than much more recently produced 9mm pistols.

As for the CZ75 vs the CZ97, well... Seeing as the CZ97 is just a scaled up CZ75B despite the fact that the 9mm Luger is a completely different cartridge with a completely different shape which operates at significantly higher chamber pressures, reliability is about as good as you can expect. Typically, firearms which are modified for completely different cartridges don't perform as well as the original chambering.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the good points. I think you gave me good reasons for why more 9mms today seem more reliable than the 45's available today.

Your reasons: 1) The 1911 was invented more than a century ago, and compared to modern 9mm's today, it won't be quite as reliable.

2) Many .45's today are 'upscaled' from 9mm platforms (the SIG P220 was originally a 9mm, as was the Glock and the CZ). When you upscale a gun in caliber, there could be issues. Like when the Beretta 92 was upscaled to the 96, the frames took batterings, and the guns were not quite as reliable.

Good points. Most 9mms are more modern designs, and many 45's today are modified 9mm's, which cause some problems.
 
Gentlemen, please, let me muddy the waters of this debate.

The 45 round, regardless of platform, has a reputation of being a heavier recoiling round and has a tendency of being "limp wristed" by shooters anticipating the recoil, causing the platform to malfunction. Very rarely have I encountered the "limp wristing" issue with the 9mm.

I know that when I am shooting a 2700 match, towards the end of the match as I get tired I tend to "limp wrist" my 1911 a little and get the shooter induced malfunction.
 
It's all in the execution and manufacture of the gun in question not in the caliber in my opinion. Put a crappy magazine or gun show reloads in a pistol and they aren't going to be very reliable. Same with manufacturing, if everyone on the production line does their job properly most any modern gun design will work just fine. If one person allows their mill or press or cutter blade to get out of spec or dull then the gun won't work too well. Taurus turns out a great gun most of the time but their quality control team will let a lemon slip through the cracks occasionally. Glock is the same way and they turn out a few lemons but their quality control is much higher, but it DOES happen.
 
I don’t shoot a lot of 9x19, but I do shoot .45 nearly every week. I have too many 1911s. They range from old Colts to fairly recent S&Ws, Kimbers, SIGs, Les Bears, Springfield’s, etc.

Most of the ammunition I use is handloaded for target shooting. In spite of that, all of my .45s have been sufficiently reliable that I would be OK with carrying any of them. I really don’t see that caliber (9 vs. .45) has a lot to do with reliability.

I do think a lot of folks tend to load up their 1911s with after-market parts made by a variety of vendors, in an attempt to customize the gun to their tastes, and this can have a bad effect on reliability. Quality of these parts varies from lousy to wonderful. Some need fitting, some don’t - often because they are made to “drop in” to almost any gun, as a sales aid. Naturally, haphazard additions of after-market parts is liable to have a bad effect on the reliable function of any firearm. JMHO, FWIW.
 
OP, What verifiable evidence do you have that supports your premise that 9mms are more reliable than .45s?

If we go by the theory that the 9mm is more reliable then the .45 auto because of the 9mm tapered case, then, the 357sig has to be extra-double reliable than the 9mm because of its tapered bottle-necked cartridge. No?
 
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