1911 series 70 vs series 80 - does it matter?

Ziggy2525

Ziggy2525

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I've been considering getting a full size 1911 for range use and to shoot in the local IDPA matches every now and then. Not looking for anything fancy, just a 1911 that's functional and reliable out of the box. Doesn't have to be "original GI."

I've been searching/researching here and on a couple other forums. One question I haven't been able to answer is about series 70 vs series 80. I think I understand difference between them, but I'm not sure I understand if the difference actually matters.

Are the series 70 models not drop safe because they don't have the trigger actuated firing pin safety? Are the series 80 models terrible shooters or maintenance nightmares because of the extra components?

Thanks.
 
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Ziggy2525 said:
I've been considering getting a full size 1911 for range use and to shoot in the local IDPA matches every now and then. Not looking for anything fancy, just a 1911 that's functional and reliable out of the box. Doesn't have to be "original GI."

I've been searching/researching here and on a couple other forums. One question I haven't been able to answer is about series 70 vs series 80. I think I understand difference between them, but I'm not sure I understand if the difference actually matters.

Are the series 70 models not drop safe because they don't have the trigger actuated firing pin safety? Are the series 80 models terrible shooters or maintenance nightmares because of the extra components?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Well as you said they have more parts to monkey with and I have been less than impressed with the trigger pulls 70s v 80s

As the design came out in the early 1900s and the 80 series came out much later if the dropping thing you mentioned was that serious things would have been changed long ago.

FWIW I do have a Series 70 Gold Cup that has had some combat modifications done to it by me and that trigger pull in that gun is fantastic!(Stock). I did carry this gun for a while and of course it was carried cocked and locked and I was comfortable with it that way!
 
I have one of each, and am no expert, but my thoughts:
1. Are the series 70 models not drop safe because they don't have the trigger actuated firing pin safety?
Maybe not as safe if you drop the gun on the hammer. My 70 is a Gold Cup and trigger was excellent out of the box.

Are the series 80 models terrible shooters or maintenance nightmares because of the extra components?
Mine is an excellent shooter, my Mod 80 trigger out of the box was not as crisp as the Mod 70, but a trigger job by an expert (included polishing and easing sharp edges on the firing pin block, a small vertical pin in the action) fixed that just fine.
 
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The 70 series under extreme circumstances can fire if dropped. The problem is easily solved by installing a heavy duty firing pin spring to control the inertia of the 1911s free floating firing pin. It is true that a Series 70 is much easier than a series 80 to Trigger tune but 1911 Gunsmiths have learned over the years to tune the 80 series every bit the equal of the series 70. Any series 80 can be easily converted to the 70 series ignition system with the removal of 3 parts and a spring and installation of a simple spacer available at nominal cost from Brownells. With patience this part is simple to install, (use a small dab of grease), and now, hey presto, you have series 70. To me this all much ado about nothing. Buy a Colt and enjoy!
 
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In addition to the above, another "system" that is in use is what Kimber uses on series two guns. Called the "Swartz System", it is a firing pin block that is operated when the grip safety is used, not effecting the trigger pull.

I have several with that safety, and the triggers are just about as good as my series 70 Gold Cup, and better than my series 80 stainless Gold Cup. All have proven reliable in actual use.

I believe the rise of the series 80 / Kimber "Swartz" system / titanium firing pin / heavier pin spring systems was a result of new "drop testing" laws that became popular in recent years.

Larry
 
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I own Series 80, Series 70 and Pre-70 series 1911s. Honestly, I've never found any real difference in the trigger pull on any of them. I think the whole bad trigger hype in the 80 series is just the result of some overly picky self appointed so-called experts who just wanted something to gripe about. :rolleyes:
For all practical purposes and for probably 90% or more of the shooters out there, the Series 80 trigger is just fine. Plus it does add an extra degree of safety for those who carry 1911s.
 
NYlakesider said:
Well as you said they have more parts to monkey with and I have been less than impressed with the trigger pulls 70s v 80s

As the design came out in the early 1900s and the 80 series came out much later if the dropping thing you mentioned was that serious things would have been changed long ago.

FWIW I do have a Series 70 Gold Cup that has had some combat modifications done to it by me and that trigger pull in that gun is fantastic!(Stock). I did carry this gun for a while and of course it was carried cocked and locked and I was comfortable with it that way!
Click to expand...

I CONCUR WITH THE OPINION OF NYlakesider.....

IMHO, THE CHANGE TO THE SERIES '80 DESIGN WAS MADE FOR POLITICAL REASONS, MORE THAN TO CORRECT ANY FLAWS IN THE ORIGINAL DESIGN.....

I TOO CHOSE A '70 SERIES GOLD CUP, PERSONALIZED WITH WILSON COMBAT PARTS, AS MY EDC WEAPON FOR MORE THAN 3 DECADES. I ALWAYS CARRIED IT COCKED 'N LOCKED. I NEVER HAD A PROBLEM, AND THE TRIGGER WAS SUPERB FROM THE GIT-GO......
 
I carried my 70 series service pistol cocked and locked until 2013, then bought a Kimber ultra TLE. When I had to give up the 45, I went to 9mm, some have been 70, some 80.

Never any trouble with any of the three styles.
No concern carrying any of them.

I don't shoot competition, so can't offer comments there.
 
A lot of people claim that the trigger on a series 80 style 1911 isn't as good (or able to be tuned) as well as those on series 70 pistols, or those without a FPS. I don't know about that...I've owned a couple of series 80 Colts, and the triggers seemed fine to me. What is a concern to me is that the series 80 style pistols are somewhat more difficult to disassemble/reassemble for me...may not be for everyone.

Modern series 70 style pistols use a lightweight (usually titanium) firing pin and a heavier spring, to overcome the inertia problem if the pistol is dropped. I prefer the series 70 style, and have no concerns about a modern 1911 (such as my SR1911) being safe.
 
The Swartz Safety previously mentioned in #5 (it requires the grip safety to be squeezed to unblock the firing pin) dates from just before WWII. I think the only GMs made by Colt at that time which incorporated it were .38 Supers, and not very many of those. It didn't affect the trigger mechanism in any way. The plan was to eventually use it in .45 pistols also, but WWII intervened so Colt dropped the idea.
 
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Both the new Colt series 70 and the Springfield Armory 1911s have titanium firing pins and stronger springs. They are, for all practical purposes, drop safe from inertial discharges.
 
I own examples of both.

Since they’ve all had attention from my gunsmith, I can’t tell the difference in the triggers.

I have no option about whether the M70’s had better triggers than M80’s out of the box: I didn’t shoot them out of the box or compare them side by side out of the box.
 
As a Bullseye shooter, I find the Series 80 trigger quite annoying. It is just more "stagey". Doesn't matter how much you smooth the parts or what the trigger weight is. Yeah, you can drop a few parts and fit a spacer from Brownell's. But, it's not match-legal.

In addition, the whole Series 80 initiative was intended to serve a political purpose, made up by people who don't know the first thing about guns.
That's enough right there to put me off.

If you're prone to habitually dropping guns maybe the Series 80 thing is for you. But, if you have a choice, I'd go for the original Series 70.

Best Regards,
Jim
 
Fishinfool said:
In addition to the above, another "system" that is in use is what Kimber uses on series two guns. Called the "Swartz System", it is a firing pin block that is operated when the grip safety is used, not effecting the trigger pull.

I have several with that safety, and the triggers are just about as good as my series 70 Gold Cup, and better than my series 80 stainless Gold Cup. All have proven reliable in actual use.

I believe the rise of the series 80 / Kimber "Swartz" system / titanium firing pin / heavier pin spring systems was a result of new "drop testing" laws that became popular in recent years.

Larry
Click to expand...
Pardon the pun, but I’ve been gun shy about Kimber. Not trying to stir up a controversy and no first hand experience with them, but I seem to run across a lot of complaints. Poor quality control. Poor customer service.

Sounds like you have Kimbers. What’s your take? Internet nonsense? True for some products, not others?
 
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FWIW, I am not a 1911 purist, I am having a blast with the Springfield Mil Spec 1911. We are entitled to what we want, but if you are open to a Springfield, you might like it, you can buy a lot of ammo for the difference in price.
 

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Ziggy2525 said:
Pardon the pun, but I’ve been gun shy about Kimber. Not trying to stir up a controversy and no first hand experience with them, but I seem to run across a lot of complaints. Poor quality control. Poor customer service.

Sounds like you have Kimbers. What’s your take? Internet nonsense? True for some products, not others?
Click to expand...

I have no ardvaark in this race. I know two people who have personally owned Kimber 1911's who said they were absolute lemons. I also know someone who carries a Kimber 1911 on duty and says it's just fine 'if you keep it clean'.

I've been tempted to try one, but the thought of a thousand dollar lemon doesn't sit well with me. I've had good luck with Colt and Springfield. Make sure you can inspect them before purchase.
 
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