Army considering 2 new submachine guns

[Backlighting]

Here's 2 well built, compact guns that were submitted to the Army for consideration.
The Army’s sub gun program is still going, and here’s one of the submissions

[DeathGrip]

Cool but 9mm?

[soFlaNative]

Originally Posted by DeathGrip

Cool but 9mm?

It's a changing world.

[DeathGrip]

Hostiles don't have body armor?

[Absalom]

Originally Posted by soFlaNative

It's a changing world.

Yes, but sticking with a 9mm SMG means not adapting to it.

The Germans changed over to the HK MP7 over a decade ago. The 4.6x30 caliber is far superior to the 9mm.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the old MP5, but it’s 1960s technology. And adopting a “new” 9mm would likely be driven mostly by logistics considerations.

[shouldazagged]

Is it just me, or does 60 rounds a minute very marginally qualify as a submachine gun? Surely that's a typo.

[amazingflapjack]

Just once could they ask the troops?

[BlackTalonJHP]

If they truly want compact why not go with a gun that has a telescoping bolt with the magazine well in the grip such as the Ruger MP9?

[DWalt]

Surprising that they are now interested in a subgun. Back when I was involved in this area 10+ years ago, more than a few of my Army connections swore that subguns were likely to never again be needed, as M4s did all that was necessary.

[Backlighting]

I wouldn't mind having one, even in semi-auto, for close encounters. It would supplement an M1A nicely.

[Texas Star]

Will someone discuss this 4.6X30 cartridge?
Thanks.

[Steve912]

Originally Posted by shouldazagged

Is it just me, or does 60 rounds a minute very marginally qualify as a submachine gun? Surely that's a typo.

It's looking at handling heat under sustained fire, not cyclic
rate of fire.

[Muss Muggins]

It has to be. Most people I know can fire 60 rounds a minute with their pistol, and some can do it including the reload time . . .

Originally Posted by shouldazagged

Is it just me, or does 60 rounds a minute very marginally qualify as a submachine gun? Surely that's a typo.

[vonn]

Seems like a pretty specialized weapon with limited applications for the military but some groups may have a use for it.

[Absalom]

Originally Posted by Texas Star

Will someone discuss this 4.6X30 cartridge?
Thanks.

It’s basically the same concept as FN’s 5.7x28. Light, fast, low recoil, high penetration capability of body armor.

Between the two, there is the to-be-expected fierce competition within NATO. I’m no particular expert, but to me it looks like FN has the better cartridge, HK has the better gun.

YouTube

[DWalt]

Regarding the 60 rounds per minute, that is in recognition that a subgun would normally be used for firing a series of short bursts, not for sustained full auto fire. 60 rounds per minute is a realistic number. Given that in the future, conventional enemy troops (not insurgents) are likely to be wearing body armor, the 5.7x28 and the 4.6x30 would give superior penetration performance vs. the 9x19. Some years back I attempted to float the idea to the USAF that a PDW in 4.6x30 or 5.7x28 might be worthwhile for certain applications such as for use by pararescue and forward air controllers. It didn't get very far back then. I think both are using 9mm Glocks at present.

[LVSteve]

Originally Posted by Absalom

It’s basically the same concept as FN’s 5.7x28. Light, fast, low recoil, high penetration capability of body armor.

Between the two, there is the to-be-expected fierce competition within NATO. I’m no particular expert, but to me it looks like FN has the better cartridge, HK has the better gun.

Probably the best synopsis of 4.6 vs 5.7 in this corner of the galaxy right now.

[Wise_A]

Originally Posted by shouldazagged

Is it just me, or does 60 rounds a minute very marginally qualify as a submachine gun? Surely that's a typo.

"60 rounds per minute" is a sustained rate of fire for, in this case, five minutes. It takes into account how quickly the firearm can be reloaded, and its ability to cool itself.

RAWR! 9mm is an insufficient cartridge!

*sigh* They're looking for a personal defense weapon. Carbines have long replaced subguns for more offensive duties.

A PDW has to be:

(1) Small enough to fit in a cramped vehicle
(2) Easy to use
(3) More range and accuracy than a pistol
(4) Not be a giant drag to equip

That's it. And using a unique cartridge is a giant pain in the neck. The ammo has to be tested at the proving ground, purchased, distributed for training, and then deployed. It's a major consideration.

And frankly, a 9mm PDW that's based on an AR lower fits the bill pretty nicely.

[LPD256]

Originally Posted by LVSteve

Probably the best synopsis of 4.6 vs 5.7 in this corner of the galaxy right now.

The 4.6X30 comes in a couple variations and last I knew is unique to the MP7. Around a 31 grain bullet smoking out at 2400+FPS. Both armor piercing and non-piercing available. The MP7 has 20 round and 40 round mags available. In my mind the most interesting fact is the gun weighs around 66 oz. unloaded. Same as 1.5 1911’s. It’s low recoil, accurate to 200 yards, and a blast to shoot. Concealable under the right jacket.