Winchester 1894 in 38-55

richcory · Oct 18, 2018

I hope to have some photos in the next few days. Just finished a deal on a 1894 in 38-55 made in 1914. 26" round barrel with the crescent butt plate. 2 owner gun before me (2nd has had it briefly before he decided to sell it). Bore is nearly mint. External blued finish on the receiver is gone, but the rest of the gun has a nice patina to it. I'm excited to try her out.

Cory

500SNW · Oct 18, 2018

Looking forward to the pics. I've always found the .38-55 an appealing cartridge. Should be fun to reload for.

Drm50 · Oct 18, 2018

A buddy of mine picked up a 38/55 last year. Early 1900 same gun as OPs.
Gun is about 80-85% exterior, bore like a dime. He put out $1200 for it
and is still crying about it, but won't sell it to me. The extra benifit of it
is that's it is legal deer rifle here in Ohio.

LoboGunLeather · Oct 18, 2018

Outstanding find! Excellent old rifle in a fine caliber. Enjoy it!

richcory · Oct 18, 2018

Paid $750 for her. Hopefully tomorrow time will allow me to get it & take some photos. I looked for a “nickel steel” or smokeless markings before but don’t remember finding any such so I don’t know if by then they were done marking it as so or it’s the prior black powder strength barrel. More info to come.

The fact that it had the mint bore & it’s 38-55 rifle sealed the deal. Any other caliber I would have probably let it go to someone else.

Cory

cowboy4evr · Oct 19, 2018

I have an 1894 in 38-55 . Mine dates back to 1897 . It has the long , full octagon barrel . I use Lee dies and a Lee mold to cast bullets . I called Accurate Powder Co . for help reloading . Acc 5744 is the ideal powder to duplicate black powder pressures and velocities . Regards, Paul

Ivan the Butcher · Oct 19, 2018

Winchesters from that time period have "Very Generous" bore diameters! Anywhere from .375 to .388 have been encountered. Pure lead and/or hollow base bullets help make up for those loose bores.

I have a 2005 production 1885 Low Wall in 38-55 and loaded 8.0 grains of Trail Boss with current "short" length brass and a coated Bear Creek 255 LFN bullet in .377" and got a ridiculously small groups at 100 yards. Bear Creek makes just about any diameter you can want for this cartridge!

Ivan

ADDED 10/29/18
I have ammo loaded by a friend that passed away. It has .385" bullets and won't even chamber in my rifle, but they were tack drivers in his 1906 produced 1894. (He used AA5744 also!)First load from 11/26/02-16.8 "5744" Oregon Trail bullet, WLR Primer Second. Load from 12-26-98 20.0 "XMP5744" Lyman 375248/249 gr., CCI-200 primer. Third load 35.0 grains "H-335" Lyman 375248/250gr. CCI 200 primer
(Minor warning: Accurate made 5744 with 3 different prefixes at different times, they all seem to use the same data.)

2152hq · Oct 19, 2018

The nickel steel bbls were made for use in the 'new' smokeless HV cartridges in the 1894,,30-30,,32sp and 25-35.

The 32-40 and 38-55 were bbl'd in the standard low carbon steel of the day for use with BP and also considered safe with the low pressure factory smokeless equiv loads offered.

Winchester did however offer the Nickel Steel bbls in caliber 32-40 and 38-55 as a spcl order item.
These will not usually have the roll stamp Nickel Steel marking on top. But IIRC, the only ID is a small steel supplier marking on the bottom under the forend wood.
'MNS' or 'INS' (Midvale,,or Illingsworth(?) nickel steel.
A factory letter would most likely mention the spcl order bbl steel.

The top side common Nickle Steel roll mark on the Winchester 94 bbls was discontinued all together around #1,03x,0000. Sometime in 1927 or 1928 I think.
But Winchester never seemed to have sharp cut off dates in production changes so most anything can show up later as older parts are used up.
The Winchester collector forums can fill you in on all this stuff quite well and if I posted anything outside the known boundrys..

38-55 is a great cartridge. Originally the Ballard Rifle Co's brainchild of a target round.
Marlin bought Ballard out,,the round became the 38-55 Marlin & Ballard.
Winchester chambered it's rifles in it and it became the 35-55 WCF,,,more popular as that than the original.

The 32-40 is the same story.

DWalt · Oct 19, 2018

The Lyman cast bullet handbook recommends .377" bullets but notes that oversized bores may be encountered. It provides recommended loads for both 248 and 268 grain lead bullets in the 6.0 to 7.0 grain range using Red Dot, Green Dot, 700-X, and Unique powders. MVs are in the 1000-1100 ft/sec range. You might even be interested in loading with Pyrodex Rifle powder.

richcory · Oct 20, 2018

Great info you guys have posted. Here are photos.

Cory

richcory · Oct 20, 2018

More photos

Cory

richcory · Oct 20, 2018

and some more

Cory

richcory · Oct 20, 2018

Last bunch.

Note the last photo. With the info posted above which aligns with other comments I have read. It appears this is in fact a "nickel steel" barrel.

Cory

Kurusu · Oct 20, 2018

DWalt said:
The Lyman cast bullet handbook recommends .377" bullets but notes that oversized bores may be encountered. It provides recommended loads for both 248 and 268 grain lead bullets in the 6.0 to 7.0 grain range using Red Dot, Green Dot, 700-X, and Unique powders. MVs are in the 1000-1100 ft/sec range. You might even be interested in loading with Pyrodex Rifle powder.

Between Pyrodex and true blackpowder, I much prefer the real deal.

500SNW · Oct 20, 2018

Nice shape. You would'nt know that she was over 100 years old from looking at the pics.

CptCurl · Oct 20, 2018

Does anybody have any recommended loads for the .38-55 using Accurate 5744? Their loading data doesn't even list the caliber.

Also for .32-40 would be helpful.

Thx,
Curl

DWalt · Oct 20, 2018

Not necessarily reliable, but Quickload calculates that with the Speer Grand Slam 285 grain bullet, 18.0 grains of AA 5744 should produce a 1500 ft/sec MV from a 24" barrel and be well within the SAAMI peak pressure limit. 20 grains takes chamber pressure to very near maximum and produces a MV of 1625 ft/sec. From experience, I have found that Quickload is optimistic when it comes to MV estimations.

I do have an older (2003) AA powder guide which provides some 5744 recipes for the .38/55:

Sierra 200 grain - 23.0 to 25.5 grains, MV = 1705 to 1853 ft/sec
Hornady 220 grain - 21.2 to 23.5 grains, MV = 1516 to 1648 ft/sec
Lead 240 grain - 19.8 to 22.0 grains, MV = 1473 to 1601 ft/sec
Barnes 255 grain - 19.4 to 21.5 grains, MV = 1277 to 1388 ft/sec

For the .32/40, same source:

Lead 170 grain (GC) - 18.0 to 20.0 grains, MV = 1658 to 1802 ft/sec
Hornady 170 grain - 18.0 to 20.0 grains, MV = 1635 to 1777 ft/sec

--------------------------------------------------------------
Note that AA 5744 appears to be the near-ballistic twin to IMR 4227, so you might be able to find some IMR 4227 recipes that would work as well using AA 5744 instead, for both .38/55 and .32/40. IMR 4227 is very underestimated as to its utility. It is superb for use in many of the older calibers, up to .45-70, especially with lead bullets, as well as in magnum handgun loads.

BB57 · Oct 20, 2018

That's a gorgeous rifle. I'd take that home in a heart beat.

I've been looking for a nice Model 94 in 38-55 for awhile. I have a low number (18XX) Big Bore 94 in .375 Win that gets shot almost exclusively with .38-55 hand loads, but I'd love to have a Model 94 rifle or short rifle in .38-55 a condition similar to yours.

cowboy4evr · Oct 20, 2018

I looked up my notes from my conversation with Accurate for the 38-55 . Using 5744 powder the load was 18.8-23.5 . Pressure would be 27 cup -30 cup . 19 grs should be around 1500 fps using a 255 gr cast bullet , depending on your gun . Chronographs don't always agree . You results might vary some . In my gun 19 grs was a good load . I had to size my bullets .379 . Hope this helps , Regards, Paul

Mrnurse · Oct 20, 2018

Great ctg.... sadly old Winchester collectors are a small breed today.

Winchester 1894 in 38-55

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