I had never heard of these but I just came across them on one persons opinion of the best .357's on the planet. The Korth was number 2 in his opinion, and I can't pronounce the winner. The S&W RM was #3. That Korth looked like a pretty fine piece of equipment though,,, anyone have any opinions or experience with the Korth revolver ? Oh, and the Korths are VERY pricey, like starting around 3K.

The winner was probably the French Manurhin like this; on par with the Korth. You need to buy a Korth or Manurhin (or one of each) and let us know what ya think

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John

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE. Do a Korth search on this forum!

This has been a hotbutton, flame inducing topic many, many times, especially given the "worth it" clause in the OP!

Besides, we have some members who have posted some really nice photos of their personal shooting gems from Germany.

Thank you!
Jim

Will do,,, sorry, I would never want to cause any grief,,, thanks.

There is nothing wrong with your post and your questions.Members here who are fortunate to own these fine revolvers should be glad to offer their personal experience with the brand.

It’s a good topic. Many of us (at least I) wonder if its worth buying something like a Korth, a P210, a Wilson 1911, etc. These things are expensive but promise shooting nirvana and are attainable for many of us if we plan ahead, discipline ourselves, or just have good fortune in life.

I mean, a $3000 gun is not a GT 350, a 5 series BMW, a F250 plus cab, etc., all of which are great but cost a lot more. And many of us spend that much money ($3000) incrementally over the years on $500 guns, which are okay but lack the precision, accuracy, workmanship, etc.

Is it “worth it” once in your life to have the best? Especially since it may be out of reach to have a Dodge Hellcat ($75,000), a big bass boat ($40,000), a second home in a beach resort ($1,000,000), etc., but there may be enough scratch for a $3000 gun one time.

The equation is different for each person, and different in different phases of your economic life, but the issue is not “can you afford it” (that’s a private thing) but, in a Forum like this, the issue is — is it really that much better than a S&W 686?

So someone who owns one should chime in, with details... stats... anecdotes... to make the case...

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S&W Rover

Gonna go grab some popcorn and drink. Not only will people that own them tell you about them and how they like them but others will tell you how overpriced they are. I had an early Korth .22, nice well made & accurate gun with a lot of hand fitting. Couldn’t shoot it to it’s potential accuracy so I sold it. Have a 4” Manurhin mr73 with target sights and it’s a keeper cause I don’t have much in it. Both are great guns and if you have a chance to shoot one, do it. Larry

It is a matter of personal preference. My individual shooting skills are adequately executed with Smith & Wesson firearms.

Very nice revolvers- but not something I’d spend that kind of money on myself. I’d prefer a vintage S&W N-frame (or several for that money).

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Some Might Say.

I'd like to have an older Korth someday. I came close to buying one previously, but opted for a new Manurhin MR73 instead. I like the fact that the Manurhin lockwork is similar to a Smith & Wesson, and that they are purpose built to endure a steady diet of hot loads. I'm sure the Korth is every bit its equal, but I'd be surprised if it truly bests it.

Is a Korth worth the price?

If you can afford one without real detriment to your overall finances, I would say yes.

As an aside, it took me a long time and a lot of saving to get my first Swiss P210, a forged P210-6 in 7.65mm and 9mm, and it is absolutely my favorite pistol.

Well put!

But, I have spent a couple grand on a gun or 2. European sporters.

Not out of the blue. You work up to in a category of guns that you know and understand and in my case admire.

Unless you got a ton of money, not on a whim.

I could see buying one. I’d keep it forever if I liked it, or sell it if I grew tired of it.

Some guys are happy with Timex watches. Other fellas like gold Rolexes.

We had a member back when I first joined this forum who was really, really into Registered Magnums. He had over a dozen. He would explain, perhaps in jest, that he was living on cup ramen in order to buy them. If memory serves, he later sold them off to help fund a house remodel or new house.

I once spent over $5K on a custom S&W and enjoyed the heck out of putting it together, organzing the build. Took me several years. I later sold it, several years later, for — improbably — what I had in it to a fellow who admired it greatly and who had been chasing me for several years to buy it. I figured he wanted it more than I did at that point.

I think only we know what something is worth to us. When buying something expensive, best to research the item and the market, thoroughly, so as not to over pay, but after that, hey, up to you!

Start with this relatively recent thread:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/firearm...#post140043204

Pictures, and at least some people who know what they’re talking about

It is a great topic.
Unfortunately, some of the comments have gotten kinda personal in the past.
Other than that, as Jebus35745 said, go grab some popcorn!
Ha!
In the meantime, I'm waiting for a few of the Korth guys to WOW us once again!

Jim

(PS: re my earlier post, the search tool here is AWESOME!)

Audemars Piguet watches, Dom Perignon wine, Testoni shoes, Gulfstream Jets. These names mean nothing. I send my assistant out anytime to pick up anything I want. I don't know about a Korth, though. Those things are expensive.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Actually, I have a couple Korth questions I've not seen on previous related threads.

1) Does anybody here have any experience with the match/target versions chambered for 38 special or 32 S&W long?
I know a couple European guys that have them, but do not have comparative experience with S&Ws. They load with H&N wadcutters, Vihtavuori powder, in Lapua brass. Top quality. Wonder how it'd do in a Smith...

2) Lots of folks balk at the cost of a Korth. But, has anybody here lost money reselling one?
They seem to hold their value...

Thanks,
Jim

I'm pragmatic about firearms. For me to pay thousands for a handgun, it has to perform at a top level for the specific purpose I intended. I've only paid that kind of money for a couple of pistols, like Hammerli 208s, and a couple of custom 1911's, when I was seriously competing. To this day, the Hammerli is the most accurate (at 50 yds) and most reliable pistol, with a wide variety of match ammo, I have ever owned. I'm not a collector. Some people just want a gun that has a reputation as the best without needing it or wanting it for a specific purpose and I can understand that. Some want bragging rights. It's pretty much the same thing with cars/ trucks. If you want it and can afford it, buy it!

Yep, it's a Ford vs Rolls Royce thing. Both will get you to your destination.Just a matter of how much quality you enjoy.

Short reply: No, for both Korth and Colt Python revolvers.

Chevrolet, Dodge, and Ford pickups are not worth $55,000 either.

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S&WHF 366

Those extolling the virtues and benefits of such revolvers, imagine this EDC situation. You have just used your "super whiz-bang" in a shooting incident. . . . Now what?

be happy you survived? that has to be worth a few thousand

If someone survives a shoot out, he continues living and enjoying life and what he worked for. If I can own and shoot Korths, I can afford having one in the evidence room. I still would have 16 Korths left to enjoy. ***....and more place in the safes to add another gun.

...Now what do you think?

Don't waste your money on a new Lollar Korth. Get a used Ratzeburg model. They are two different guns. Not sure who would want a Nighthawk logo on their Korth in the first place.

Ratzeburg is the original company. Lollar is a new company. All my Korths are Ratzeburg. They may be expensive, but if want the full Korth experience, its the only way to go.

As far as 357 Magnums are concerned, you can't go wrong with a Korth Combat, Colt Python, Manurhin MR73, or S&W Registered Magnum.

They are the best of the best...

There's more than one purpose for owning firearms.
What a morbid forum this would be if the only optic through which we viewed firearms was as it's function for shooting someone.

That's not to downplay the serious importance of our right to self defense.

However, since we're using automotive analogies, just because a Rolls Royce used in a combat capacity wouldn't make our troops any safer, does not diminish it's intrinsic value in other capacities.

On the other hand, there is something kinda cool about the image of riding around Fallujah in the heat of battle taking potshots at insurgents with a plasma finished Korth from the backseat of a Silver Ghost!

Is Korth a person, a location, or something else?
I am waiting for the day when I can sell my Miroku .38 Special revolver for $3000. I am sure there are a great many more Korth revolvers around than Mirokus.

Not knocking your Miroku, but rarity doesn't create value. Just ask a Yugo owner.

My comment did not refer to intrinsic or aesthetic value. Does anyone honestly believe that an under $1000 S&W, Ruger, Kimber, or Colt in 357 Magnum, tuned as needed, would be in any way inferior at doing the job for which it is intended - that being a successful defence of you and yours? That specific set of situations is to what my reply is intended. Having a replacement or back-up of revolvers I named would be significantly less disturbing for nearly everyone when compared with having the Korth and Manhurin duplicated for the same purpose. And if your back-up piece is not another of these extremely expensive items, it's a sideways admission that you understood the intent of my reply.
***
I would never have believed that "under $1000 S&W, Ruger, Kimber, or Colt in 357 Magnum" would be written to sort've stand in for "budget priced."

The Miroku is, in deed, a very rare revolver.

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John

Of course, another factor in a revolver's market value, if not it's intrinsic value, is it's "pop culture" identity.
Look what "Dirty Harry" did for the S&W 29!
By that same token, I think the Miroku revolver shows up in one or two of the "Godzilla" movies!

You need a "screen capture" image of Japanese police officers, Mirokus in hand, defending downtown Tokyo from the rubber-clad monster.
Just add it to your next GB auction listing!

Jim

I own quite a few fine firearms; Korths, S&W, Colts, SIGs, Walthers, Merkel shotguns, just to name a few. I have used a Glock for defense while living abroad and in a very dangerous environment and am still carrying a Glock everyday that I have bought used. If I follow your logic, then my S&W M19 and Korth collection are completely unnecessary and should be eliminated since the Glock does the job so well.

I appreciate quality more than the average person and have been taught from a young age to look for it. I do not follow the crowd and change my tastes to current fashion but receive great satisfaction from good engineering and excellent quality. Most of my S&W revolvers were bought when the run on the wondernines was in full swing and revolver prices were kind of depressed.

What a sad world it would be, if utility was the only value to consider and beauty and the small luxuries that make life so much nicer would not matter!

Brian,

I disagree slightly with your expressed opinion about the Lollar Korths. They are great when it comes to fit and function. I have been to both factories, the second Ratzeburg shop and the factory in Lollar. The Lollar Korths are made on top-notch CNC machinery and are much more uniform than the hand made guns, while maintaining the mechanical advantages from the trigger roller design and roller bearing finish of the chambers. As a matter of taste, you and I both would not want accessory rails - especially on our revolvers - and prefer the hand finish of the Ratzeburg guns, which makes every piece unique.

That said, just like you I also prefer the Ratzeburg versions over the newer ones but then, I also discriminated against the SIG Sauer P210 Legend unfairly because of its CNC based production methods and favour the SIG P210.

As someone said, a Korth is a Korth of Korth of Korth.

If you have the money to spend on a Korth, you probably have a more affordable gun to carry .Also , chances are that it is either a safe queen or it is shot occasionally at the range. Perhaps in competition. I don't think that it would be an every day carry piece or a bedside stand gun. And before you poo-poo that idea,how many of us have 460s or 500s ? A long barreled PC 460 can set you back $1500 easily, and I doubt any of us are carrying it for SD, nor would it be our first choice for a bedside gun.

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1st smiles,lies.Last,gunfire.

It isn't just that Korth owners might have more affordable carry guns, it is rather impractical to carry a six inch target gun when walking through the aisles at Walmart. This morning even the Glock was replaced by a S&W Bodyguard in a pocket holster for pure convenience.

I get it that Korth's are nice guns... and have a lot of ascriptive value as collectors items. But I'd love to see some data that measures how they are better than, for example, the S&W Mdl 686.

What steel are they made of, and why is it better than the steel used in the S&W 686?

Do they have a better design, specifically, is the lockwork stronger because xxxxx, or the mechanism that locks the cylinder better because xxxxx, or the sights better because xxxxx?

Are they manufactured with higher tolerances in fit and finish? Specifically, is the gap between the cylinder and the firing cone always xxxxx, is the blueing better because it was tested and it resists corrosion better than the 686's stainless finish, or it looks better than xxxx, etc.

Are the grips made of some special material that is better than wood, G-10, or rubber?

Are they more accurate than the Mdl 686, specifically, has anyone done a shoot-off from a Ransom rest that shows smaller groups...?

That sort of thing. I think we all get that a Rolls Royce is a nicer car than a Corolla because of a lot of reasons like they use leather and wood instead of plastic and use a lot of manhours to form it into artistic designs ... but if you want to assert that a RR is better than a Corolla and worth 10x, then I think you need to address which vehicle has the higher mean time between failure (MTBF) for its water pump, air conditioner compressor, timing chain, etc.

High end 1911s - Baer, Clark, Wilson, etc. - address both features that users tend to want but also stress accuracy (1.5 inch groups at 50 yards) in their adverts - accuracy being a desirable attribute that is measurable and able to be compared.

So what are the tangible, measurable, palpable differences between a Korth and a 686 that make the Korth worth three times as much? (I'm not suggesting they aren't there, but I would like to see someone who knows the Korths to say what they are).

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S&W Rover

Andy, I never said they weren’t nice. I’ve handled a couple and shot one. I’m just stating that they’re different. To me they feel completely different and the OP was referencing LSP’s YouTube review, which in fact was a Ratzeburg model.

I’d personally never buy a Lollar revolver simply because they aren’t my taste, but I agree they are well done. Not Ratzeburg nice, but nice nonetheless.

As for the P210, the Legend is very nice also, but the forged Swiss models are all I buy these days. After handling one, I wouldn’t even consider an American model.

The answer to your question is yes. They use much finer materials and are fitted to tighter tolerances. There’s tons of specifics easily found online, so no reason to rehash here.

I wouldn’t own something like a 686, but my older Smiths are also very fine handguns.

This is what I referred to in my first post. Do a search. The info is out there. It has been cited on this forum repeatedly.
But, here is a quickie link to get any interested folks started.

Michael Zeleny puts his money where his mouth is and backs up his opinions with first hand experience.

french and german revolvers for sport and social work - larvatus prodeo

Jim

That's a great start, so thanks, and I should have checked it out initially.

This has started me on a search for more information about Korths and Manurhins, and looking in particular for exact comparisons to S&Ws. Mr. Zeleny's web page quotes some high-round torture tests of Manurhin revolvers, with the assertion that no S&W revolver could make those numbers, which provides a very good start point. But I can't find data on how long a Mdl 686 would last under similar conditions; it would be useful to know if someone has ever done such a test.

Thanks.

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S&W Rover

Sizewise the Korth frames fall in between the K framed model 19 and the L framed 686, while using the same speedloaders as S&W K frames. A Korth or Manurhin MR 73 feels more like a K frame than an L frame and both receive their strength from superior steel quality.

I have had more than one S&W K frame shooting loose and developing endshake with the use of Magnum loads and consequently now shoot my heavy Magnum reloads in the Korths. The old style grips, which from 1969 on, where supplied by Nill do not distribute the recoil as well as the later and larger Nill grips.




***Another feature that the Model 19 and the Korth share, is the adjustable trigger stop. It helps a lot in accurate shooting and when you watch Youtube videos with presentations of Korth revolvers and the trigger stop is screwed in too far, it gives you an idea how much the opinion of the poster is worth among shooters.