Gun Repo

[Ribwizzard]

So I went to the pawn shop after my 5 day waiting period to pick up the little Steven's. 22 rifle I bought, and the clerk tells me it's a no deal, and hands me my money back.....???
I state, but I have a receipt, its mine isnt it. No sir, we decided after you left that we sold it too cheap, here is your money back.
I say, I'm good with that, rather not do business here anyway. Good bye.

So now, still wanting a .22 , I can get a new Marlin 60 for about $180 otd, or a Remington fieldmaster for a tad over $500. What rifle would you get?

[Arm]

Sako M-78 if you can find one.

[Ackley1952]

Buy a house in state with no waiting period . Freedom is priceless

[sigp220.45]

Wow, that stinks.

[gregintenn]

Florida has a waiting period?

[75Vette]

I'd tell everyone I knew and then some not to patronize that shop. That was bad business and dirty pool. You made an agreement and have a receipt to prove it.

[diyj98]

My story isn't that bad, but I stopped in a shop once on my way to a meeting. I saw a gun and asked the price. The guy quoted me a price. I told him I was in a hurry, but might stop back. I stopped in after the meeting when I had more time to do the paperwork and he gave me a higher price. I told him what he'd priced it for earlier that day and he told me "well I decided I priced it too cheap". I told him to keep his gun.

[Dieseltech56]

Stories like that burn me up. My brother was at a gun show a few years ago. A seller had a 681 for $550, he takes note and walks the rest of the show first. He comes upon another seller who's selling a few S&W revolvers and also a 681 for $650. My brother casually says hey there's a guy over there selling one for $550 and nothing else really said. My brother keeps going and eventually returns to the original 681. Gone, sold. The second dealer bought it and now had two 681s in his case for $650. Lesson learned

If you have a receipt for an item you already paid for then I bet you have legal ramifications against the store.

[Texas Star]

Is that even legal?

As for the .22, I'd buy a Marlin M-795, pref. the stainless model.
Or, a bolt action CZ M-452 with the American style stock. The M-455 replaced it, but I prefer the older one.

Weatherby used to make a nice .22 autoloader. If you find one at a good price, pounce on it! There were both std. clip and tubular magazine versions. I prefer the box mag. version.

If you have the money, look at the repro Winchester M-52 sporters. Both Browning and Winchester imported them.

[old tanker]

Did they make you fill out the 4473 when you paid for the gun? Or is that normally get done when you pick it up? I'd tell all and sundry how those guys do business.

[m75rlg]

Originally Posted by Dieseltech56

If you have a receipt for an item you already paid for then I bet you have legal ramifications against the store.

Don't know Florida law well (even though I was stationed there a few years while in the Coast Guard), but most states follow the UCC (Uniform Comercial Code).

Under the UCC an offer and an accecptance creates a contract.

You may very well have some legal recourse, either to force the completion of the contract or to recover damages. You could look into that, but if you need legal assistance (a lawyer) then it might not be worth it.

[Engine49guy]

Florida has a "cooling off" waiting period.
If you have a Fl CCW there is no wait.

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Originally Posted by Ribwizzard

So I went to the pawn shop after my 5 day waiting period to pick up the little Steven's. 22 rifle I bought, and the clerk tells me it's a no deal, and hands me my money back.....???
I state, but I have a receipt, its mine isnt it. No sir, we decided after you left that we sold it too cheap, here is your money back.
I say, I'm good with that, rather not do business here anyway. Good bye.

So now, still wanting a .22 , I can get a new Marlin 60 for about $180 otd, or a Remington fieldmaster for a tad over $500. What rifle would you get?

If you filled out a 4473 I would gently suggest that they go through with the purchase to your next visit will be to the ATF. Ya gotta know when to "bring enough gun"

[Ribwizzard]

If the 4473 is the form for the background check, yes, I filled it out but they claim they never submitted it.
I wasnt that in love with the gun, or I would have raised more fuss.

[jmace57]

Originally Posted by Texas Star

Is that even legal?

As for the .22, I'd buy a Marlin M-795, pref. the stainless model.
Or, a bolt action CZ M-452 with the American style stock. The M-455 replaced it, but I prefer the older one.

Weatherby used to make a nice .22 autoloader. If you find one at a good price, pounce on it! There were both std. clip and tubular magazine versions. I prefer the box mag. version.

If you have the money, look at the repro Winchester M-52 sporters. Both Browning and Winchester imported them.

Yes - they are Weatherby Mark XXII. I had one I bought new in 1969 or 70. Some were made in Italy and some in Japan. The magazines for the "clip fed" are like hen's teeth. 5 or 10 round mags. Expensive when you can find them. I sold mine to a co-worker for $550 in like-new condition a few years ago.

[Kanewpadle]

I would plater their name all over social media.

[Chukar60]

Certainly a raw deal they did you.
I would not waste my time engaging them. Just never go back and and make sure anyone you have the casual opportunity to inform, knows what happened.
I cannot imagine taking any legal action over something like this.

[JM4151]

I was in a gun shop in the Poconos last week and they had two model 60's in the shop. A used one for $175 and a new one for $225. I like the Ruger 10-22 but that's personal preference.

[Muss Muggins]

Seems kinda rude to me . . .

[Kanewpadle]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

Seems kinda rude to me . . .

Ya think?

[Zipdog]

Originally Posted by Ribwizzard

If the 4473 is the form for the background check, yes, I filled it out but they claim they never submitted it.
I wasnt that in love with the gun, or I would have raised more fuss.

So they sold it to the son in law that couldn't pass the background check but it is assigned to you. Report it to the ATF. They can take care of the chessy shop.

[shouldazagged]

As to your original two choices, the Marlin 60 is a reliable, durable, accurate autoloader, at a really good price. They've sold tons of thm for a reason. But then I don't have $500 bucks to spare.

Since I am a somewhat irritable curmudgeon in my old age, I would want to find a way to tack that shop owner's pelt to the barn door. Maybe Caj's excellent idea plus some lousy word of mouth.

[EarlB]

I worked at a pawnshop for years while I was in high school and college. Granted it was in Texas where there has never been and never will be such a thing as a waiting period, but we don't do business like that here.

At a minimum I would ask to see the Manager. There is a very good chance that he is not aware that this happened. This may all be something the clerk you talked to and/or his friend pulled off. You had a deal, you had paid, you had a receipt, you had even submitted the 4473 form if I understand your texts right...that's a done deal period. They cannot do what they did. The Manager should make it right, reprimand/fire whomever caused the mess - or if not I'd escalate to and speak to the owner who should do the same. Pawnshops (no business really) can stay in business with business practices like this.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PAWNSHOP SELLING SOMETHING TOO CHEAP - IT DOESN"T HAPPEN. You can be guaranteed that anything in the shop I worked at was marked at a 100% profit, minimum. That left plenty of room for negotiation with a customer and for profit. Some people would ask to haggle, many would not. I would assume it's the same way at most pawn shops but at ours every price tag was coded to indicate what the cost in the item was. No one, even the junior most clerk could make a mistake in not knowing what the cost in it was.

If the manager or owner doesn't make it right - go to the state pawnbroker's association which grants their license. It isn't about the value of the item being sold, it's about their business practices, principles, and integrity. I'd also post up on social media, BBB, and every place else. Do you still have your receipt? Everywhere I posted, I'd include an image of it.

Earl

[HOUSTON RICK]

They owe you more than your money back.

[Class III]

First thing in the morning I would definitely be on the phone with the BATFE, FDLE or whom ever runs the background checks in FLA, explaining what has happened and that you want to verify that the firearm is not showing as being transferred to you on the BATFE or FDLE's end.


My guess is the seller is showing the transfer to you on their A&D "Bound Book" and actually transferred the firearm to someone else. This puts you on the hook should something hinky happen and the rifle shows up with an evidence tag zip tied to the trigger guard.


At the least, if this had happened to me, I would not have left the store without seeing their A&D "Bound Book" showing the firearm was not transferred to me and still listed in store inventory. I would also demand (AKA, I'm not leaving until it's in my hand) the return of the ORIGINAL SIGNED AND DATED FORM 4473 that they claim was not processed (Think IDENTITY THEFT.)

The store is required to maintain the ORIGNAL FORM 4473 and BOUND BOOKS for TWENTY YEARS from the date of transfer.

IF they claim the 4473 you filled out was not "Called In" and the firearm was not "Transferred To You", there is no reason for them to retain the original signed and dated FORM 4473.

If they show the transfer on their "Bound Books" to you but can't produce a corresponding FORM 4473 during their "Annual" inspection their world has just changed to ****!!!


Class III

[merl67]

What he said^^^ !!!

[Laketime]

I once was quoted a price over the phone of $150.00 for a model 66-1 from a new guy at Lew Hortons gun shop in Framingham Ma
After driving an hour to get there I saw the gun with a price tag of $350.00,when asked about the price quoted by phone they explained the new guy quoted what they were into for by mistake.lew Hortons honored that mistaken quote And I left with a steal of a deal and a lot of respect for their organization.

[stansdds]

Did this pawn shop give you a receipt or other document indicating the agreed upon purchase price? If they did, then that may constitute a sales contract.

[wingriderz]

Wow make sure all friends family know how this place does business

[Bakebfr480]

Get a Ruger 10/22!

[Alpo]

I'da called the cops.


The heck with the 4473. I have a receipt in my pocket saying I paid for the gun. Clerk refuses to give me MY GUN, that I've already paid for. "Hello, police. This man just stole my gun."

[BAM-BAM]

Check out the CZ line of .22s....... if you can get an older ( pre 2014) model they are 452's .... the newer 455s aren't bad either.

[old tanker]

I'd be concerned if someone had a 4473 with my signature on it saying I bought a gun I did not get. At best, this is just a sleazeball reneging on a deal. At worst, it's a way to cover a transfer from his "bound book" to someone who is unable to honestly fill out the 4473.

[The_Truth]

Yeah, this wouldn't'a flied with me. If you've got my money I bought the item and it's legally mine. Not to mention the background check...what an absolute joke. I'd be on the phone with every applicable state agency about it for sure.

[hardluk1]

Ribwizzard If you had a CCW or a valid hunting license you could have paid and taken the .22lr with you . Live and learn .

[ExRanger714]

Angie's list, Yelp, BBB website, or comment on their Facebook page.

[scoobysnacker]

At the very least, contact the ATF and state exactly what happened. Don't say you're "filing a complaint", state that you are concerned about filling out a background check form on a firearm, and then not receiving it. You want to be sure it's not filed as transferred to you.

My local range/FFL told me they have to account for each form, even if you make a mistake on the paperwork (you have to draw a line through it and still submit the original). Meaning, even if it's not submitted, you have to keep it, not tear it up or whatever.

So in your case, you need assurances this isn't listed as "your gun".

[stansdds]

I had not even given thought to the fact that a 4473 had been filled out and the possibilities of that form being misused. Yikes!!!!

[scoobysnacker]

Originally Posted by Ribwizzard

If the 4473 is the form for the background check, yes, I filled it out but they claim they never submitted it.
I wasnt that in love with the gun, or I would have raised more fuss.

Rib, you absolutely need to follow through with this.

As it stands now, you have a very possible chance of being involved in a straw purchase. I'm NOT an FFL, but my guy told me those aren't disposable forms; and if you filled it out in full, you might be listed as the purchaser.

Good luck with this

[2152hq]

If you filled out the 4473 in full, signed it,,,and the NICS check was completed (with a 'Proceed' given),,BUT,,the firearm is not physically transfered at that time (waiting period,ect),,then the buyer has to re-sign the 4473 and date it again in a separate section further into the form when it is picked up from the FFL.

If the FFL has the 4473 filled out, but the transaction is not followed through to the point of a NICS check being called in and a NICS check # is never issued to the FFL for the transfer,,then the 4473 form for that xfer can be destroyed by the FFL. It does not have to be kept.

IF the NICS check was called in and a # issued by the FBI for that transaction (there's a place for it on the 4473),,then that 4473 has to be preserved and kept by the FFL no matter if the transaction is followed through with or not.
It has to also be kept if there is a DENY response, or a Delay and in the latter if the xfer is never completed.

The way the FFL/Pawn dealer pulled the gun transaction from under the OP would make me feel uneasy at the least about having made out that 4473 and having them tell me 'we never called it in'. All that after going through the FLA waiting period. Why wait to call it in when they could have run up against a DENY response from the FBI 10 days ago. Then put the rifle right back up for sale then.

I too would call the local BATF office and explain the situation. They have a Compliance Office that handles such things and these are the Agents that pay visits to the FFL's to check their records and inventory to make sure things are run on the up & up.
They've seen about every trick in the book to side step transfer paperwork and do backdoor deals.
It might not be the first time anyone has called about the Shop.

Either the FFl's books will reflex the correct situation with the rifle, that it was simply sold to another person. (Quite possible & just plain poor business practices for them.)

There may be a 4473 on file in the OP's name w/a NICS check done but 'No Transfer Completed" written and signitured/dated on it in their records, ( I doubt it..)

,or a 4473 w/a NICS check done with the OP's name on it for that rifle, the rifle gone from the books as sold to the OP and a Pawn Dealer/FFL with a lot of explaining to do. (Could be,,and that would bother me..a lot)

jmo

[Shield 9 WV]

Originally Posted by Alpo

I'da called the cops.


The heck with the 4473. I have a receipt in my pocket saying I paid for the gun. Clerk refuses to give me MY GUN, that I've already paid for. "Hello, police. This man just stole my gun."

My thinking as well, don't change a word. They didn't keep "their gun" they kept "your gun."

Have your secretary type it up and sent it to me and I'll sign it.

[gman51]

I have a 40 year old Marlin 60 that works every time but a friend bought a new RemLin Model 60 a few years ago and it is a jamma matic.
I would never pay $500 for a 22 rifle but that's just my thoughts about it. I believe I would also get the Ruger 10/22. They are not all that expensive and Ruger has a top notch customer service if needed. For the price and quality I don't think Ruger can be beat for any of their 22lr. You want it to go bang not jam.

[627Pro]

Wow, what a sleazy practice that was. I have nothing to add to what others have advised regarding the legal ramifications of the yours/not yours situation.

Regarding your question on what .22 to buy to replace the original purchase, what type of Stevens 22 was it? A model 62 semi-auto, a model 15 Favorite, or something else? If the semi-auto, I'd go for the Marlin model 60 you mentioned. Inexpensive, reliable, and there's a reason they've sold about 11 million of them.

The 22 world has many potential purchases, but advice will be more relevant if you indicate how you intend to use it, whether you want a bolt action or semi-auto, and how much you want to spend. Lots of candidates between the $180 and $500 you noted. Marlins, Rugers, CZs, Weatherbys, and Henry are my preferred brands, and all offer good guns.

[ken158]

You explained a problem and some guys here are trying to sell you on another gun... funny how threads get so hi-jacked. Understand that the 4473 answers certifies you are not prohibited from a purchase. NICS or whatever states call their own check does the same. There is no gun registration. The only place that gun is matched with your name is on the 4473 which the dealer retains and also in his bound book. The 4473 is the only paperwork the ATF oversees. I would call local ATF and explain that you fear you may have unwillingly been involved in a straw purchase. This should get their attention and instigate a compliance check on the dealer.

[LVSteve]

Originally Posted by ken158

I would call local ATF and explain that you fear you may have unwillingly been involved in a straw purchase. This should get their attention and instigate a compliance check on the dealer.

This. Go for the throat, it's what that shower deserve.

[ExRanger714]

Per ABC News 12/29/2018 (web page)

Government shutdown by the numbers: Who isn't getting paid

"More than 41,000 federal law enforcement and correctional officers are impacted, including:

-- 2,614 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) agents.
-- 16,742 Bureau of Prisons correctional officers.
-- 13,709 FBI agents.
-- 3,600 Deputy U.S. Marshals.
-- 4,399 Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) agents."

It may be a while before ATF investigates much of anything.

With so many Bureau of Prison personnel affected convicts may have to self-incarcerate and self-release.

[Walkingwolf]

This is America, sue them!(Sarcasm)

Just find a dealer with higher regard for ethics.

[627Pro]

Originally Posted by Ribwizzard

So now, still wanting a .22 , I can get a new Marlin 60 for about $180 otd, or a Remington fieldmaster for a tad over $500. What rifle would you get?

Originally Posted by ken158

You explained a problem and some guys here are trying to sell you on another gun... funny how threads get so hi-jacked.

No hijacking involved, the OP did ask.

[gregintenn]

I've never considered a pawn shop to be a beacon of ethical and moral superiority.

[ISCS Yoda]

I am not certain if the police or any authorities can or would assist but that kind of retraction is actionable.

If you have a receipt for an item you already paid for then I bet you have legal ramifications against the store.

Definitely true. The problem is that the cost of a small claims lawsuit would probably convince anyone to not do it - but I think I would do it!

I had an incident like that once but it was funny. I bought a used, marginally fancy O/U shotgun at an LGS near me; actually, I paid partially and was supposed to return to pick it up to complete the deal. Before I got there it turned out that the gun was consigned by a guy in the middle of a divorce and the wife showed up and claimed the gun was hers. The owner of the store called me to tell me they had to give it back to her and I laughed out loud - technically, it could have been called stolen and none of us wanted to deal with THAT!

So I bought a Bushmaster AR/M4 instead. Everyone was happy!