FN 98 Mauser question

My lady has a Firearms International Wash DC, Musketeer, FN Action made in Belgium, and looks maybe like the trigger is a Sako.... The safety is not a standard wing safety but rather a side mounted push forward to fire safety.

SN is R011XX...don't know if this is an early model or later...

Was this made by Sako for Firearms International?

Thanks for your help everyone!

Randy

I own both a Sako Forester and an FN Mauser Delux with the wing safety behind the bolt. The Sako safety is the forward push-off. I can't say with finality that Sako made your rifle but I don't think that FN would have bothered offering the same rifle with two different safety systems.

federali said:

I own both a Sako Forester and an FN Mauser Delux with the wing safety behind the bolt. The Sako safety is the forward push-off. I can't say with finality that Sako made your rifle but I don't think that FN would have bothered offering the same rifle with two different safety systems.

Click to expand...

Browning offered their Safari line in the 1960s and 70s with both FN Supreme and Sako actions. IIRC the Sako actioned .243s were known for their less than stellar accuracy.

I think that FI imported your rifle and marketed it, kinda like Santa Fe sold modified Garands as Beretta BM-59/62 rifles.

The FN Deluxe action had a wing type safety as mentioned above. When
FN "improved" their action to what they called the Supreme they used an
adjustable trigger with a sliding safety made by Sako. It is known as the
Sako #4 trigger. The Deluxe action had a simple military type non
adjustable trigger, great for a rugged hunting rifle. Some FN fans
thought the Sako trigger was a step backwards for a hunting rifle
because if the trigger housing gets water inside and freezes up out in the
boonies in cold weather you have a problem.

It was an easy and cheap way to offer American shooters a low-scope safety and an adjustable trigger all in one.
(My God,,how could you possibly hit anything with that orig Mauser trigger and iron sights,)

The 'must-have' adjustable trigger to replace the standard Mauser 2 stage and included a Safety that didn't interfere with a the other 'gotta-have-it' item of the time (and still is),,a scope sight.

The Sako triggers used to be very popular as an aftermarket install on sporterized Mausers. The Military bolt shroud w/it's flag safety could be left intact and not bother anything. Just use the side safety attached to the Sako trigger.
The Military safety was still usefull for bolt disassembly but the scope was usually in the way on the home built sporters.
I used to get the Sako units from Brownells back in the day IIRC.

The Safety part of Sako mechanism only blocks the trigger component. Unlike the Mauser Military 'Flag' Safety which cams the bolt sear back and off of the trigger sear completely.
The Sako trigger & Safety should lock the bolt shut when on SAFE if it is installed correctly.

Take your pick. Thousands have been installed and used w/o any problems.
Don't trust the Safety is the Rule anyway.

Firearms International was just the US importer at the time (50's,,early 60's)
They had the import rights to quite a few European mfg'rd arms back then. STAR pistols among others.

Stoeger was another big importer at the time.They had claims on Llama and Astra pistol mfg'rs as well as Italian Bernardelli and several Spanish shotgun and Double Rifle makers.

Seems like everyone was importing Belgian FN Mauser 98 Actions & Bbl'd actions.
Stocking the bbl'd actions here in the US was a good business and several US firearms companys marketed a rifle with their name on it that featured an FN 98 Action or bbl'd action.
Several used Sako actions and bbl'd actions as well.
Colt, MArlin, H&R, Sears (JC Higgins marked & assembled by High Standard)) and others.
There are some good rifles in that bunch that might not necessarily have a glamorous name on them. A 50's/60's FN Belgian 98 Mauser Action (or Bbl'd Action) is quite a find.
These will be Post war Model 1930 actions with the H cut style receiver ring collar.
Pre-war actions have a C cut rec'vr ring internally.
Just a production machining change.
Don't let the purists tell you they aren't up to the task.

I have a beautiful civilian 1952 (as shown on the proof stamp) FN Mauser rifle in .220 Swift. I believe the entire rifle (including the stock, which is a little unusual in its design) came from FN. I replaced the military style Mauser trigger with a Timney, but had to a little cutting on the stock interior to get it to fit. At least for the .220 Swift, the action was modified at FN specifically to handle it. I remember reading that there were other calibers made which also had necessary modifications made to the action.

Unfortunately, the grouping capability of my FN .220S has always left a bit to be desired, even after thoroughly scrubbing the bore, not much better than 1.5 to 2 MOA. I have never bothered to attempt further accurizing efforts as it pretty much a 100 yard fun gun to me, not something for precision long-range varmint hunting (which I don't do anyway). Frank de Hass' book on bolt action rifles devotes a chapter to the commercial FN actions if you are interested in knowing more about it.

Is it very difficult or expensive to re-bbl these actions?

I have a Israeli Mauser 98 in 7.62x51 that is not a reworked German 98, but uses a FN built receiver and is so marked, along with the IDF crest and 7.62 on the receiver. Not like some being offered, this looks like it actually saw action, ot at least used for training. Shoots well, but the bbl is rough to say the least, but the receiver is in very good shape for its age and not beat up.

IDK about collector value, but figured it would make a decent base for a hunting rifle for someone. My hunting days are long over.

Would it even be worth sporterizing?

Rob

FN

2152hq said:

It was an easy and cheap way to offer American shooters a low-scope safety and an adjustable trigger all in one.
(My God,,how could you possibly hit anything with that orig Mauser trigger and iron sights,)

The 'must-have' adjustable trigger to replace the standard Mauser 2 stage and included a Safety that didn't interfere with a the other 'gotta-have-it' item of the time (and still is),,a scope sight.

The Sako triggers used to be very popular as an aftermarket install on sporterized Mausers. The Military bolt shroud w/it's flag safety could be left intact and not bother anything. Just use the side safety attached to the Sako trigger.
The Military safety was still usefull for bolt disassembly but the scope was usually in the way on the home built sporters.
I used to get the Sako units from Brownells back in the day IIRC.

The Safety part of Sako mechanism only blocks the trigger component. Unlike the Mauser Military 'Flag' Safety which cams the bolt sear back and off of the trigger sear completely.
The Sako trigger & Safety should lock the bolt shut when on SAFE if it is installed correctly.

Take your pick. Thousands have been installed and used w/o any problems.
Don't trust the Safety is the Rule anyway.

Firearms International was just the US importer at the time (50's,,early 60's)
They had the import rights to quite a few European mfg'rd arms back then. STAR pistols among others.

Stoeger was another big importer at the time.They had claims on Llama and Astra pistol mfg'rs as well as Italian Bernardelli and several Spanish shotgun and Double Rifle makers.

Seems like everyone was importing Belgian FN Mauser 98 Actions & Bbl'd actions.
Stocking the bbl'd actions here in the US was a good business and several US firearms companys marketed a rifle with their name on it that featured an FN 98 Action or bbl'd action.
Several used Sako actions and bbl'd actions as well.
Colt, MArlin, H&R, Sears (JC Higgins marked & assembled by High Standard)) and others.
There are some good rifles in that bunch that might not necessarily have a glamorous name on them. A 50's/60's FN Belgian 98 Mauser Action (or Bbl'd Action) is quite a find.
These will be Post war Model 1930 actions with the H cut style receiver ring collar.
Pre-war actions have a C cut rec'vr ring internally.
Just a production machining change.
Don't let the purists tell you they aren't up to the task.

Click to expand...

Given your very well stated response am I wrong with this assumption? The rifle was made by FN using the commercial action and then imported by Firearms International?

Or was the barreled action imported and then stocked here in the US by the importer? Any idea on date of mfg from the SN I posted?

Randy

wetdog1911 said:

Is it very difficult or expensive to re-bbl these actions?

I have a Israeli Mauser 98 in 7.62x51 that is not a reworked German 98, but uses a FN built receiver and is so marked, along with the IDF crest and 7.62 on the receiver. Not like some being offered, this looks like it actually saw action, ot at least used for training. Shoots well, but the bbl is rough to say the least, but the receiver is in very good shape for its age and not beat up.

IDK about collector value, but figured it would make a decent base for a hunting rifle for someone. My hunting days are long over.

Would it even be worth sporterizing?

Rob

Click to expand...

No, no, NOOOOOOOO!!!! There is quite a lot of collector interest in those. Rough bores on milsurps are not unusual due to the use of corrosive primers, but it can have surprisingly little effect on the accuracy.

I had two FNs but they're long gone. Seems like the dates of manufacture were stamped on the right side of the action on or near the receiver ring, just below the stock line; i.e., the barreled action must be pulled from the stock to expose the date stamp.

growr said:

Given your very well stated response am I wrong with this assumption? The rifle was made by FN using the commercial action and then imported by Firearms International?

Or was the barreled action imported and then stocked here in the US by the importer? Any idea on date of mfg from the SN I posted?

Randy

Click to expand...

Could have been either way actually.
First check to see if there are Belgian proof marks on the bbl as well as the FN made action.
If the bbl carrys FN/Leige proof marks and looks to match the form and style on the action then it's a good bet the 2 came as a 'bbl'd-action'.
Not as an action alone that was after-market bbl'd later on in the US as some were done.

There should be a 'date code' among the proof marks that'll give you the yr the action or bbl'd action was proofed at Leige.

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

Scroll down to 'Date Codes' and look carefully for either the plain letter with a bar underneath,, the use of a Greek Letter date code,,or the Cursive letter style date code.

Don't confuse the Date Code with the Controller of Proof code.
This is the main guy in charge at the time,,his mark.
It'll be a capital letter with a * underneath it.
It will also help somewhat in determining when it was proofed. But some of these gents stayed on the job for decades.,,,(Gov't Work,,you know how that is..)


The Sears/JC Higgins sporter rifles used an FN 98 action. The finished and proofed actions were imported and then bbl'd here in the USA by High Standard for Sears with a bbl made by HS. Then placed into a sporter stock by HS.
The rifle roll marked and finished for Sears with the house brand JC Higgins marking.
I believe the sporter stock the High Standard used was sourced from Wysoski Bros in CT at the time, though it may have been a Bishop.

Marlin also offered a sporter built on the imported FN 98.
I believe that Marlin bbl'd these with their own mfg bbl, but I may be wrong on that. I do know that the sporter stocks were supplied by Bishop for these.
Marlin also sold a similar sporter using a Sako action as did some other mfg's in the 60's.


Firearms International offered both FN actions and FN bbl'd actions.
I always thought the completed sporters such as the Musketeer were stocked in the USA and offered as a lower cost alternative to the FN Sporters of the day.
One way of checking is to simply look over the wood and see if it's plain American Walnut.
You wouldn't see that come thru on a Belgian FN built sporter of any grade.
Does it have an FN logo butt plate on the stock? Or just a plain plastic BP with some checkering cast into it. Maybe it looks suspiciously like a Bishop or Fajen Butt Plate of the time.

As to the date, I'm not all that familiar with the FN ser# system.
The proof date code can probably be more usefull than any ser# info I have.

I know in 57/58 they added a Date Code and Model code to their ser#'s.
The date code was the last digit of the year followed by a letter designated as the Model of the firearm the # was assigned to. Then the consecutive number serial number after that.

Prior to 57, I'm don't believe they used any such code(s) at all. Just a serial # of all numbers. No letters or codes, ect.
So the R at the beginning of the ser# really doesn't tell me much, no date code preceding it. I don't have any notes on the Model codes. (not that I know much about their numbering).

rockquarry said:

I had two FNs but they're long gone. Seems like the dates of manufacture were stamped on the right side of the action on or near the receiver ring, just below the stock line; i.e., the barreled action must be pulled from the stock to expose the date stamp.

Click to expand...

At least on mine, both the action and the barrel are date stamped (along with several proof stamps). And both stamped areas are visible with the action mounted in the stock.

2152hq said:

It was an easy and cheap way to offer American shooters a low-scope safety and an adjustable trigger all in one.
(My God,,how could you possibly hit anything with that orig Mauser trigger and iron sights,)

Click to expand...

I see I'm not the only one that detests the barleycorn sight picture. I joke that if the Wehrmacht in WWII could reliably hit stuff with those sights then they WERE the master race.

The only decent irons on a Mauser are on the 1896 Swedes. Slightly chunkier, squared up front sight and a rear notch you can actually see.

The years on my guns were not in the customary tiny numbers so often found; the entire year was stamped, not just the last two digits or some code.

wetdog1911 said:

Is it very difficult or expensive to re-bbl these actions?

I have a Israeli Mauser 98 in 7.62x51 that is not a reworked German 98, but uses a FN built receiver and is so marked, along with the IDF crest and 7.62 on the receiver. Not like some being offered, this looks like it actually saw action, ot at least used for training. Shoots well, but the bbl is rough to say the least, but the receiver is in very good shape for its age and not beat up.

IDK about collector value, but figured it would make a decent base for a hunting rifle for someone. My hunting days are long over.

Would it even be worth sporterizing?

Rob

Click to expand...

It is much more expensive to have the work done than finding something that fits the purpose. And as soon as the modifications are done, it's instantly worth less, so no, it's not done much anymore. Building custom guns from mauser actions in neighborhood gunsmith shops is mostly a thing of the past.

Sporterized military rifles are a thing of the past, from back in the 1950s-60s when you could buy many good-condition military bolt action rifles for less than $30, and there weren't many factory hunting rifles on the market that were affordable. Today, the old military rifles are collectible (some of them very much so) and some modern economy bolt actions (such as those from Savage, Mossberg, and Remington) are fairly cheap and are much better than a sporterized military bolt action. Sporterizing a good military rifle is a pointless losing proposition any way you look at it.

The Interarms mauser action, were and are a great value, circumventing the whole process, others are similar, Higgen, H&R, Parker hale, etc... cheap guns that will last for generations.

At one time Herter's was selling actions and complete rifles based on BSA actions. I haven't seen one of those for a long time.

I'll still build a sporter on a Military rifle. But only on something that's already been chopped up by someone.
Plenty of those efforts around to choose from.
I just finished up a Krag to a G&H type sporter look.
It began as someones deer rifle with a poorly done Bishop or maybe an older Stoeger big montecarlo stock on it. It had a nice Pacific rear aperture and banded front sight already.
That was the draw,,and the $225 price!
I'll get a couple pics if I can.

No need to tear up anything orig or even near orig anymore to work on.
Restoring them to Military configuration is time better spent if the rifle hasn't been too badly altered IMO.

Those Herter BSA actioned rifles were quite nice.
The polishing and final finish just not quite up to BSA standards, but that was part of the price difference I guess.

You still find one once in a while.
They imported a Mauser 98 from Yugoslavia back then too, probably the first of what would become the Mark X.
Seems like one of Herters imports was the J9 the other the U9,,,something like that.

I bought two new Herter / BSA guns about 1975, a .22-250 and a .25-06. Well-built rifles, well-finished with good wood. I think they were around $135.00. I'm pretty sure it wasn't long after that when Herter's discontinued the rifles.