A Knife I Bought in Sedona in 1992

[Onomea]

In 1992 my wife and I took a month off from my job in Tokyo to drive 2000 miles on the east coast, and 4,000 out west. We had a swell time.

In a small shop in Sedona, Arizona, I bought the knife shown in the pix below. I think I paid $130 for it. The woman in the shop said it was about 100 years old, and was from Wyoming. (I should have asked her why she believed that to be the case, but didn’t.)









Other than what the woman said to me about it, I know nothing about it. It’s a nice knife, though. Well balanced. I assume from the marking that the maker’s initials were OEK. Handle is wood, though I don’t know what kind. Blade length is 6 1/2”.



It currently resides on my living room book shelf, usually resting among its companions.

Comments as to possible origins, style, the maker (!), etc., or anything else, from all are appreciated.

[Marshwheeling]

Nice knife. Looks like a stick tang. Can you tell if the brass pommel threads onto the tang, or do we see a nut that threads onto a smaller tang?

Either way, in the absence of a full tang, the knife would probably be blade heavy if not for the large fullers.

The wood just knocks me out, like a well-cared-for antique. Nice lines and proportions.

What do you know about the steel? Has the knife ever been cleaned to your knowledge?

[Lee Barner]

the only thing I know about is: I want one too. lee

[Onomea]

Marshwheeling, I’m not sure what keeps the pommel on the tang... Not a nut that I can see. Maybe it’s threaded, screwed onto the “stick” tang and then ground flush?

I’ve cleaned and oiled it occasionally over the years. Just yesterday with fine grit sandpaper. I use a metal polishing cloth on the brass hilt and pommel now and then to shine it up.

I don’t know about the steel. For some time I have wondered about the marks — scratches — on it. I’ve speculated someone at some point perhaps tried to sharpen it using an electric grinder. But today I am thinking maybe those are file marks. Maybe the guy who made it ground out the basic shape, including the fullers, with some sort of grinder, and then shaped it with a file or files.



What do you guys think?

[Marshwheeling]

The photo doesn’t show anything to suggest a nut on a shaft; if you don’t see anything like that in person, it’s probably not there. So the tang is either threaded or peened to retain the pommel, or possibly threaded, then peened, then ground flush. All of which takes it outside my meager knowledge.

I can’t say much about the blade either. The scratches appear to be made by hand rather than machine. But files or sandpaper seem like a pretty slow way to shape steel. Also, the scratches look like they were made on a surface that was already pretty well refined. Did somebody make the scratches in the process of removing rust or some other encrustation? It is also possible that the blade was forged, then ground or filed to its final shape.

Probably the best way to find out what you have is to post your pictures on Bladeforums in the section entitled Bernard Levines knife Collection and Identification (or something like that). There are knowledgeable people there who can tell you a lot more.

It is a very appealing piece that makes you want to know more.

[Bullet Bob]

I apologize in advance for the thread drift.

"...drive 2000 miles on the east coast, and 4,000 out west."

You just made my back hurt even more.

Nice knife!

[howiema]

Looks to me like it is an old Marbles Knife that was rehandled and the blade ground down a bit, The wide blood groove is kind of a give away but I may be way off. If you google it you can see the same blade design. it is still a beauty with alot of class.

Pete

[s&wchad]

The blade shape reminds me of an old Marbles Ideal.

The initials have an oriental flair. Oda Kazan comes to mind, but it’s seen serious use/abuse if it’s one of his. He did live in various parts of the US for a while and even worked with Bob Loveless. I have no idea what his middle name is and he sure wasn’t making knives 100 years ago.

Good luck researching it!

[Valmet]

That is a very handsome knife OP!

[Old_Cop]

It is a very nice knife, but I am reminded of the old saw about "buy the gun not the story."

[walnutred]

It's a nice knife for sure. If not for the story you were given I would have thought that it was a "theater" made knife from WW2. Due to the shortage of sheath knives many styles were made from obsolete bayonets and sword blades, which tended to have wide blood grooves or fullers. Some of the Navy Machinist Mates seemed to have the time and skill to turn out exceptional work. I would not be surprised if the handle turned out to be some exotic wood from a South Pacific island.

[THE PILGRIM]

Nice one!
I like the Brass and the Handle a lot.
I’m also thinking somebody started with an existing blade, maybe a Marble.
The long, wide Blood Groove is kind of a Marble style thing.

[Marshwheeling]

I think Howlema nailed it at post #7. Maybe not a Marble’s, as there were a number of imitators of tha style of fuller, like Case, Camillus and maybe Western.

[Flattop5]

Originally Posted by howiema

Looks to me like it is an old Marbles Knife that was rehandled and the blade ground down a bit, The wide blood groove is kind of a give away but I may be way off. If you google it you can see the same blade design. it is still a beauty with alot of class.

Pete

Exactly. It looks like an old Marbles or Pal or something, and then, it was re-ground and re-handled. Not that that's a bad thing. Indeed, the original handle may have been toast, and a new handle was needed, or the blade was rusted badly, etc., etc.


-------------------

[stu1ritter]

Originally Posted by s&wchad

The blade shape reminds me of an old Marbles Ideal.

The initials have an oriental flair. Oda Kazan comes to mind, but it’s seen serious use/abuse if it’s one of his. He did live in various parts of the US for a while and even worked with Bob Loveless. I have no idea what his middle name is and he sure wasn’t making knives 100 years ago.

Good luck researching it!

He signed his name "Kuzan" in script on the knives he made for me while he lived in Colorado. Below the script signature was
"Colorado USA". There was no room for the Colorado in the folding knife.

Stu

[Kinman]

Nice knife, I've seen any number of military type blades repurposed in this manner. Especially used in this manner were bayonets. Every now and then you can even find them with a shortened scabbard, German craftsman did quite a bit of that kind of work. It is common to find them ground down to a more purposeful design, such as yours. I agree that the wide blood groove is a dead give-away. I have an old KaBar that was found in the trunk of a car that gives one every indication that it was used to dig dandelions before being used by a guy with a metal detector to dig up quarters in yards full of pebbles before finally getting resourced out to a boy scout troop leader to teach boys how to split kindling and general camp routine work. Interestingly the leather washer handle is still intact, ricasso is loose and pommel hammered yet still retaining a fairly tight fit.
I've seen KaBar type knives ground down to the thickness of a filleting knive, which probably used up a grinding wheel in the process.

[Onomea]

Thanks, guys, for all the comments. Howiema’s guess, that it is a mass production knife that has been reground and rehandled makes sense to me, too. It is a very light knife. And I appreciate the BladeForums suggestion, Marshwheeling. I may well check that out, both for this knife and another unmarked one I have whose maker is a matter of speculation.

Stu1ritter’s Oda Kazan knife is a beauty!

[Kinman]

Originally Posted by Onomea

Thanks, guys, for all the comments. Howiema’s guess, that it is a mass production knife that has been reground and rehandled makes sense to me, too. It is a very light knife. And I appreciate the BladeForums suggestion, Marshwheeling. I may well check that out, both for this knife and another unmarked one I have whose maker is a matter of speculation.

Stu1ritter’s Oda Kazan knife is a beauty!

I agree and failed to mention earlier on what a beautiful knife the Kazan is. Its not too often you run across a knife that looks like it would be perfect for nearly every possible chore from cleaning your nails to cleaning a deer, that one has the look. I have always leaned towards drop points and like a longer than normal handle for leverage. Japanese designs are usually beautiful, before I understood what went into making their swords I could see the beauty in the design.

[stu1ritter]

Kuzan said something like that Kinman. He said the knife should be able to cut your food or scrape the valve cover clean on your car. I'm not much of a photographer but here you can see the shape of the grip and the taper of the blade. The blade is 3/16" on the spine before it tapers at the tip and tail and the cutting edge is hollow ground. He really is a sword maker.

Stu

[Sistema1927]

Sedona?

I fully expected to see crystals embedded in the handle.

But, I am glad that I did not. Nice knife.

[Onomea]

I posted the knife on BladeForums about a week ago, per Marshwheeling’s suggestion. Consensus over there as well is that Howima’s thought, that it is a reground, rehandled commercial knife, Marbles or otherwise, is correct.

An interesting genre, and one that I had not really noticed before.

(In the past I have toyed with the idea of finding an old, really beat up Cattaraugus Q225, having the blade burnished and sharpened, and the knife rehandled in sambar stag. I think that would make for a very nice knife. Unsurprising that others have executed similar ideas when I think about it...)

[THE PILGRIM]

Bark River is making their version of a modern updated Q225.
They call it The Quartermaster.