Hi all!

My husband passed on Thanksgiving Day. He was retired from Post Office and his pay was what we have been living on. They don’t pay monthly survivor benefits or life insurance for 3 to 4 months to me. Plus, my husband’s November pay for December 1st, they’ve taken back due to 4 days he wasn’t alive for the month and I won’t get that until the other comes. And we had no savings as we were hurting due to high medical bills for so many years. I’d rather not starve. I did a gofundme on Facebook, but that’s not working out. So ....

I need to sell my husband’s .357, but I need the highest price I can get. I don’t know what the barrel length is, it looks like 5 1/2” but I could be wrong. I put a ruler up to it and that is how long the part of the barrel I can see is. I don’t know when he got it, but it was before we were together, which was 1979. It’s stainless steel. I’ve only seen my husband fire it once and he hated buying bullets so he only fired a few shots. He shot .38 bullets in it It’s like brand new, kept locked up and dust free. It has a wooden handle. It’s a big gun! Reminds me of Clint Eastwood in spaghetti westerns. It has an adjustable sight too.

What is the highest I can get and what should I settle for if I have to sell quicker? I appreciate any help.

Photo: Shared album - Deborah Heaberlin - Google Photos

The Ruger speed/security six are well built guns. I have seen one last week here in Wilmington, NC for sale. It sold and was priced at $599.00. The configuration was 4" with all standard equipment. I would think that is a reasonable price, maybe even on the high side. I think given my travels, $500+ is the going rate for these revolvers. Just make sure to abide by your local laws when selling a handgun to another individual, don't want you to get in a pinch. It may be beneficial to list it in the classified section of this site. Best of luck on your sale.

I would agree with the poster above as to value and would also stress that when you sell it make very sure you do it legally.

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LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

I am so sorry to hear about your loss, and pray that you will receive comfort from above during this time of grief.

I can't add anything more concerning value, except to tell you that the barrel is 6" long. With revolvers, they are measured from the front of the cylinder face to the muzzle. Just FYI for when you advertise it.

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Only a cold warrior

I'm thinking it relates to where she lives . I've seen them go around here for $600+ . You might visit the Ruger forum if they have one .

I'm very sorry for your loss and wish you all God's blessings.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

You did reveal a few tips that make me think it is likely a 6” security six and value would be top end - $600. Low end $400. If you can dig around and find the box, it will make a difference because “us guys” like that kind of stuff. Condolences for your loss.

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S&W factory revolver armorer

Thank you all for your replies and condolences. I have never seen the box and know my husband bought it from a friend. I live in Texas. I didn’t know that I just couldn’t sell it. I’ll look into Texas laws on selling guns next then. My husband thought the gun was pretty special. It’s too big for me. I have a little .38. I’ll look for a Ruger forum as well. There’s so much to do when you lose the live of your life unexpectedly. I very much want to sell it legally though.

Sorry also for your loss.

Probably the best way to sell is listing it in the Guns for Sale/Trade here, or the equivalent place at a Ruger forum. You should receive a payment form you trust and a copy of the dealer's license to where it will be shipped, if not local to you. It has to be shipped from a licensed dealer near you to the buyer's dealer, but the buyer pays for shipping costs.

TX 'probably' allows in-person sales to those allowed to own a handgun; definitely check state laws. You'll want to have a bill of sale (signed copies for you and the buyer) and a copy of their photo ID or Permit to Carry along with verified payment. Plus doing the transaction in a safe place and taking someone else with you for safety's sake...so this gets complicated, especially if you have not done it before.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Does it still "get complicated" in Texas? Granted, in Washington the days of trading one gun for another three times while walking down one gun show isle are over, but Texas is a Republican controlled state with a bunch of rural landscape. Eight years ago Washington did not require asking each other's names or shaking hands. It was not uncommon for honest buyers to be willing to pay more for guns that came without a paper trail. We need a Texan for their local knowledge.

Traditionally in private transactions gun buyers paid with currency. That's what I would expect. Grocery store clerks take in lots of $100 bills without batting an eye so having five of them is not a big deal.

Sorry for your lost and troubles. In Tx, it is very easy to sell a gun from a individual to another individual. Be sure to fill out a bill of sale with a copy to the buyer and keep one for yourself. In the DFW area that is a $600 gun and should sell within a couple days at that price. You have a 6 inch Security Six that appears to be very clean with what looks like custom grips.

I've lived in Texas all my life, and have bought, sold and traded guns both as an individual hobbyist, and a federally licensed firearms dealer...There are no specific state laws governing firearm transfers other than those that mirror federal law...In other words you, as an adult over 21 are free to sell your property to any other individual as long as you are reasonably sure that person is not prevented from buying it under federal regulations...Briefly that means a resident of Texas whom you do not suspect to have a criminal past and who is at least 21 can buy your handgun from you...A person without a criminal past who is 18, and a resident of any state can buy a long gun from you...There are exceptions for foreign nationals, but even they are not prevented from possessing firearms in Texas...

As previously mentioned it is a good idea to see a valid Texas ID when selling your gun, but it is not mandatory to record the information...Some do write a bill of sale which both sign, and each keep a copy but it is not mandatory...When I sell or trade one of my guns to an individual, I look at the drivers license just to verify age and residence unless I personally know the individual...

There is no gun registration in Texas either...There have been those rare occasions when the buyer just gave me a bad vibe, and I have turned down sales because of it...It's your property and you are free to do with it as you wish under the above guidelines......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

Sad for your loss. Losing a loved one during the holidays is an especially hard blow. Earlier model Rugers are valued handguns among Ruger fans, and shouldn't be difficult to sell for a reasonable price. As stated in an earlier post, you could go to a Ruger forum for further pricing information. Check your local laws, but I can't imagine making a private gun sale would be very difficult in TX.

Very sorry for your loss! On Gun Broker nice ones are $600 up. If you have a way of advertising it, a Texas sale would be much easier. Don't meet anyone without someone with you, Bill of Sale(signed and a copy for you and the buyer with gun S/N) and take cash or a Postal Money Order. I wish you well in getting the retirement pay started. Is there not a union steward that can help you with speeding things up?

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Mighty 90's,Trying 4 a 100!

If I may ask---
What part of Texas are you from?
There might be someone on this forum that would be interested in your Ruger.

Sorry for your loss..........

FYI...... to maximize your return don't sell it to a Local Gun Shop..... they will only give you 50-60% of the gun's "retail" value.

They will be looking at reselling it at a profit... not trying to rip you off but they need to make money to stay in business.

Take Maddog's advice and list it here... site has a Classified Section... scroll down ..... maybe face to face sale only.

I spent 12 years as a fed with a similar retirement system. 3-4 months is just how long it takes. There's no good reason for it, it's just how it is set up, and they end up sitting on your money longer than necessary. One of the things discussed in the retirement planning sessions they provide talk about planning for that delay.

Unfortunately, unlike retirements deaths are not usually planned events and it can put the surviving spouse in a very tough position at the worst possible time, especially when the family savings have been depleted by high deductibles and co-payments from what passes for health insurance now in our entirely rigged for hospitals and insurance company big business health care system.

I don’t know where this “Get a Bill of Sale” requirement is coming from. Maybe from members that live in restricted states.

Truckman’s comments are spot on. I am married to a Texan and have a lot of family there. The wife says we are moving back to Texas when she retires so I am a Texan in waiting. Anyway Texans love their guns and the laws make it easy to sell a gun.

For a face-to-face you should verify that they are a resident of Texas. Drivers License is good enough and a Conceal Carry License is best. A Conceal Carry License means they have gone through a background check and are not a prohibited person. A lot, maybe most, used guns are sold face-to-face with a simple exchange of cold hard cash and no Bill of Sale. In fact many potential buyers do not want a Bill of Sale. The last used handgun I brought was at a Gunshow was with cash and I didn’t get a Bill of Sale.

As already commented selling a gun to someone that lives out-of-state it must to sent to a FFL Dealer in that State.

Be forewarned that for you shipping a gun must be done through UPS and Fed-Ex and it is very expensive. Somewhere around $80.00 I am told. This is where a friendly Gun Dealer can help you a lot. A FFL Dealer can ship a gun through the mail (USPS) at a significantly lower cost.

As for the price of your gun the gun market is fickle. Desirability varies greatly from region to region in our country.

As noted above, if you sell to a local gun shop you'll only get about 50% of the expected retail selling price.

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Some shops will sell on consignment and in that case you should be able to get about 80% of the value - when it sells. The difference that all they are providing is space on the shelf and a sales person showing it. Since they don't have to tie money up in the purchase price, they can work on a smaller margin.

Right now, that might be a better than average option as most shops have very few guns in stock, so it will both sell quickly, and they have space and sales staff to spare. Under those conditions don't take less than 80% of the sales price. Price it at $650 and let them go as low as $600 in necessary to make a sale. That will net you $520 to $480.

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You can also list on here or better in one of the Ruger forums, but there can be some minimum post limits, etc that make that problematic.

If you sell locally, face to face, some police departments or sheriffs departments will allow you to a sale there, or at least out front.

There are a few shops that will also run a NICS check for you on the buyer for a nominal fee. For example, Carolina Caliber Company here in Winterville NC will run the check and provide a place for the transaction to happen for $5. It's a great service and fairly priced and one of the things the gun community as a whole should be doing with private sales to ensure guns, and handguns in particular are not being sold to prohibited individuals.

The feds have not been allowed to maintain a registration database or other computerized systems since 1986, thanks to the FOPA. However, law enforcement can contact the National Tracing Center in Martinsburg WV. They have about 50 ATF employees who do gun traces, as well as local staff who microfilmed (and now scan) all the Form 4473s that come in from closed FFLs.

An actual gun trace involves an officer contacting the center and requesting a trace. That officer has to get the manufacturer and model of the gun correct, as well as the serial number. That's harder than it sounds.

Think Browning Hi Powers for a minute. You have the actual Browning marked Hi Power, the FN marked Hi Powers, the Argentine Hi Powers made under license, and the later FM Hi Powers made after that license expired. You also have the Hungarian P9 and P9M "Hi Power" clones, as well as the "counterfeit" FEG P9s that were marked as FN Hi Powers and sold to embargoed middle east countries by FEG. They can be distinguished by the B prefix and 5 digit FEG style serial number, but almost no law enforcement officers know the difference. Then there are the Israeli "Hakeem" Hi Powers that were initially made by FEG and later assembled in Israel from FEG supplied parts.

Worse, imported firearms now have to have new serial numbers applied by the importer due to concerns about duplicate serial numbers.

Think Lugers, P.08s etc, where there were blocks by year with 4 digit serial numbers and an alphanumeric prefix. There are a lot of P.38s with the serial "3891", there are fewer with "e3891" and only a few with a 1944 date and "e3891". If you add in the manufacturer code ("ac", "byf", "CYQ", and "svw") you now have a unique serial number. However, I have never seen an FFL record the manufacturer code, and date as well as the serial and prefix.

Even then, the ATF can't just call Mauser and ask who they shipped a particular P.38 to. If they did, the answer would be along the lines of "the Wehrmacht" and the current German Army probably has no idea where that P.08 got off to. Consequently, unless it's a later import with an importer name stamped on it, the trail will go cold as there is no way to determine the FFL who sold it to get the name off the 4473.

If you are a collector, you need to consider that if we had a registration system, we would not need import marks on all those collectible firearms.

Assuming the officer gets the manufacturer model and serial correct, the tracing agent will call the manufacturer or the importer to see who the wholesaler was they shipped it to. They then call the wholesaler to see what FFL it was shipped to. They then call the FFL who goes through the bound books and 4473s to find the firearm and identify who it was sold to. If the FFL is out of business, the tracing center ends up looking through its microfilm and pdf records to find the firearm.

That's the name - the name of the original purchaser - that will be given to the officer. That's where a bill of sale can be important for two reasons.

If a gun you purchased from an FFL is used in a crime and you were the original purchaser of the firearm, your name will be the name that comes up in a search, 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 1 year, or 10, 20, or 50 plus years later. Any trace beyond that initial purchase is the responsibility of law enforcement so they will come knocking on your door. Even if you moved, they'll trace you through DMV records, etc and come knocking on your new door.

At that point it's useful to you to be able to show that you sold the firearm to someone else and that you did not own it when the crime was committed.

It's also very useful to law enforcement if you can let them know who you sold it to. Then they can go knock on their door, where again a bill of sale might be useful for them to show it was sold to person #3, etc, etc, etc.

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Now you can argue that it's none of their business who you sold the gun to. Some folks might be inclined to say that if they have reason to suspect the buyer might have been a prohibited individual. Congratulations, you just made the "person of interest" list. Guess what happens when another firearm you used to own shows up at a crime scene.

It was mentioned above that some buyers don't want a bill of sale and will pay cash. That's fine. The bill of sale isn't for them, it's for the seller, not the buyer. It's a bill of sale, not a receipt.

In my case, if the buyer doesn't want to show a driver's license to show name and address (residency) so I can put that information on a bill of sale, the sale isn't going to proceed. Period. If the buyer changes his mind at that point after being told the sale wasn't happening. Too bad, he's now graduated to the "let's go to the local gun shop and do a NICS check" level.

Why? Because I'm a responsible gun owner.

It's NOT about "restrictive" versus "non restrictive" states. It's NOT about whether the law requires you to identify who you sold a gun too and keep a bill of sale. It's about being responsible about selling guns.

Times have changed and the only way we are going to continue to avoid an eventual gun registration system, and preserve the right to make private sales is if all of us, or substantially all of us, act responsibly to ensure that guns don't get sold to prohibited individuals and that a crime scene gun can be traced to the final purchaser.

BB57,

Interesting story. I assume you have documentation of criminal court cases where the seller that made a legal sell was tried because they did not have a Bill of Sale.

I had a seller one time that wanted to see my I.D. I said no problem I will show you mine if you show me yours. Strangely enough he did not want to show his I.D.

As for being in Government data base heck my fingerprints and photo are on at least five different Federal and State Government computers that I know of. I frequently send emails to my Federal Congressmen so I have no doubt that there is no problem with my name popping up on their computers.

As you say the seller should use their judgment on who to sell a gun too.

Incidentally that gun I sold and was recovered at a crime scene has most likely past through several people since the sale. It seems to me that fingerprints found on the gun and at the crime would be the most and best way to track who used it.

You may surmise correctly that I am not intimidated in the least by leo’s showing up to ask me questions about a gun sale or purchase.

My condolences on the loss of your husband. I have the same gun the correct barrel length is 6 inches. I would not sell mine for any less than $500.00 and probably closer to $600.00. Location does play a factor some guns bring more, or less depending on location.

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Randy

I’m in Longview off I-20; 1 hour West from Shreveport and 2 1/2 hours East of Dallas.

I really appreciate the condolences and detailed responses. A lot of thought and knowledge were presented. This is extremely helpful, especially with what I’m going through. I’m actually one who follows rules. I have a .38 for myself. My husband’s gun is just way too large for me. But I’d rather do the Bill of Sale for the benefit of helping to keep more registration and constraints from laws occurring. When I read BB57’s comment, I had already surmised that getting a Bill of Sale would be preventative and aid fell9w gun owners in the future. And if someone asks for my ID because I asked to see theirs, I have no problem letting them see mine. It seems just as important to know who he is buying from. If a gun is later found to have been used in a crime, the buyer would need to know the seller’s name to give to police, not that the gun was used in a crime, that I know of, it just seems like the courteous thing to do. Same with Bill of Sale. Tracing back to where you purchased a gun seems important.

If I sound like a dummy in this, mourning the loss of a spouse after nearly 4 decades will do that to you. Plus my husband handled these types of things. My brother, who lives a distance from me, called last week to let me know the outside pipes needed to be wrapped as the temp was going to dip below freezing. So many things we wives take for granted in old fashioned type of relationships to some extent. I have a 60’ x 30’ shop full of tools for word working. All those table tools each have a shop vacuum hooked to them. There are two finished rooms and one huge area with overhead doors on both ends. That shop is going to be something to figure out. I make stained glass so will be utilizing some tools.

My husband liked the best. He has a Kubota riding lawn mower. The day of the funeral we had a valve on a tire that someone stole and not sure what was going on, used the air compressor from shop to fill some of the tires. We have one of those septic systems that have several tanks. My husband was certified on it so he could the maintenance. I always said it’d take 10 men to replace my husband, lol. He was a wonderful man. Oh, and I have to learn how to run a generator for when the power goes out. It happens several times of year when bad storms or hurricane hit the gulf coast. I have A LOT to learn. I guess I’ll need forums on everything! Not a minute goes by that I’m not missing my husband for so many reasons!

I have Doberman too who are great for protection and they are trained. But I still would rather not meet a gun buyer here at my home. $5 would be worth a safe meeting place and insuring I’m selling to someone legal. I’ll have to see if anyone here offers that. I would think insuring the gun isn’t sold to someone who should not own a gun is equally as important as the Bill of Sale and I.D. Guns in the hands of the wrong person is what always prompts anti-gun people to raise a stink wanting to outlaw some firearms and placing more restrictions and requirements on gun owners.

I served in the military and was familiar with firearms prior to meeting my husband. But that was a long time ago. There is something called a “death file” that has instructions to your spouse on items they have very little knowledge of. Consider this for your spouses. It’s so much harder to take care of things when you are gone. My husband had too much confidence in me.

Thank you all again.

~Deb

Things will improve eventually. Give it some time, maybe someone from here will contact you. God bless you and may your husband Rest In Peace.

Condolences for your loss, Ma'am. I wish I was in a financial position to make you a more-than-fair offer for your husband's revolver. That particular model and barrel length of revolver is a favorite of mine. It's a good one. Please do not take the first offer that comes your way, unless it is quite high. A bit of patience for the best offer will pay off.

Kindest regards and deepest sympathies.

I assume you're talking about the aforementioned practice of having an FFL call in a background check for you...When I had my gun store in Conroe, someone asked about doing that and since I knew the applicant had to fill out the ATF Form 4473 prior to me calling it in, I asked my ATF compliance inspector about the legality...He told me that unless I had the gun in question logged in to my inventory, I couldn't call it in...

I didn't argue the point, and since the seller at that time didn't want to go to that much trouble they just conducted their business privately off-premises...If you're worried about a potential buyer's background, just sell to someone who has a Texas CHL...It's a substitute for the background check in FFL transactions anyway......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

That’s a great idea. I am grateful to everyone for their help.

My condolences on your loss.
Ruger discontinued the "Six" Series revolvers in 1988. They're getting hard to come by, very highly thought of and sought after. While I believe $600 to be a fair price, quite honestly I'd price it at $700 to start with and maybe lower it a little for the best offer. As I said, people want these guns and will pay for them. Might as well get the most you can.

You seem to have missed the point. It's not primarily about documenting you sold the gun. Let's be honest for a minute about dishonesty. Someone could make a bill of sale with a name out of the white pages, or better yet the archived obituaries most newspapers maintain and make a bill with the name of a dead guy on it. Literally a "cold" trail on a trace. It might still look suspicious, but it's hard to prove the sale never happened.

The primary reason its in your interest to get a bill of sale is to aid law enforcement in the event a gun you owned is ever used in a crime. If you read what you called a "story" you'd realize that we now have import marks and new serial numbers on all imported guns because of we don't have a registration system.

Even then it's very hard to trace any gun past the original purchaser, unless that initial purchaser and subsequent sellers get sufficient information from the buyer and maintain an envelope with bills of sales in them (or sell those guns to an FFL, who'll log it in and out of his/her bound book).

In other words, tracing guns used in crimes is a problem, and it's been a known problem for decades. Eventually, we'll have a high profile shooting where a gun at a crime scene can't be linked to suspect due to the lack of a registry and/or due to private sales and the non gun public outcry and support for a registry or banning private sales will be more than enough to overwhelm our already eroding pro gun support in those areas.

That means we have a choice. We, as a community, can be more responsible, self police and hold other members of the community responsible, or we can wait until state or federal governments step in and impose more restrictive laws upon us. Choose wisely and didn't screw it up for the rest of us.

As for you being a prior owner of a crime scene gun, were you able to provide the name of the buyer to law enforcement? If you were, excellent. You are a responsible citizen and gun owner and regardless of where the trace went after that, it didn't fail because of irresponsible action on your part. If you didn't...well, regardless of how my subsequent owners there may have been the trail went cold as a result of your inaction. Each time that happens we are one step closer to getting a registration system forced on us. Again choose wisely and don't screw things up for the rest of us.

You also mention people using judgement in deciding who to sell a gun to. Judgment comes in both "good" and "bad" forms and a lot of folks have incredibly poor judgement. It's often poor because they make decisions based on limited information, and/or due to confirmation bias.

In that regard, asking to see the ID of a potential buyer is one way to gather information upon which to base a decision. If the buyer refuses, it's a strong argument for finding another buyer. Similarly, a refusal to meet at a local police department to conduct the transaction is another useful piece of information.

As you indicate, a seller refusing to show ID could also be suspicious. It could mean the gun is hot, or the seller is a prohibited individual, or it may mean the seller has a lot of guns and doesn't want to disclose an address that might make him a target for theft by the 'buyer'. A follow on probing question of "why?" might help you determine the motive for the refusal - and in turn whether you want to proceed with buying the firearm.

Unfortunately, buying or selling, if someone is motivated enough, confirmation bias gets in the way of sound judgement as people start ignoring or minimizing the facts that are indicating what you plan to do is a really bad idea.

The collective "we" in the US, elect known cons, cheats and liars from both parties into high office every November because on average slightly more than half of that "we" are willing to ignore facts and historical information in order to make a decision that supports a preferred world view, no matter how unrealistic it may be.

Consequently, suggesting people just "judgment" isn't a very strong argument or justification.

A bill of sale is important when for whatever reason, you or someone down stream of you makes a mistake and sells a gun to someone who either commits a crime with it, or fails to keep it secure to prevent it from being stolen.

BB57,

I asked you to provide documentation of a case where a legal gun owner sold a gun to legal buyer was charged with a crime for not having a Bill of Sale. I am not being argumentative but I would like to know of any cases where that has happened.

You have put a long of thought and effort in your belief that guns that are legally sold in private sales go on to be used in crimes. You even go so far as to call sellers who do not use a Bill of Sale are “irresponsible” and is the reason we will lose our 2A rights.

Then you go off topic when you posted “fails to keep it secure to prevent it from being stolen.”

This is a subject that you obviously feel passionate about. You might convince more people of the value of having a Bill of Sale if you didn’t call those of us that don’t are “irresponsible”. When you start using terms that some people may feel insulted by you they drown out listening to you and you lose the intent of your message.

As for the O.P. a large, long barrel revolver is rarely the weapon of choice by criminals so that should help put you at rest when selling your gun.

Yes and no...

I spent 12 years as a fed and I learned to never underestimate the ability of a bureaucrat to take on overly narrow view of a reg, miss the big picture and larger intent, and give a bad answer to a question.

I also learned that you never ask "can I do this?". That invites a response based on a very narrow read of the law, one that is disconnected from actual practice in the real world and from the larger intent of a law.

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Prior to 11-1-2020 the firearms description was located in Section D, completed after Section A and usually after the NICS check was completed.

The ATF put the proposed change out for public comment, got comments on that portion of the changes to the form and published this response to those comments:

On December 26, 2019, ATF published in the Federal Register a notice of proposed changes to then content and layout of the Form 4473. ATF has received numerous comments on the proposed changes. Many of these comments address the purpose for the relocation of the firearm information. While evaluating proposed changes to the form, ATF determined that moving this information to the beginning of the form was more consistent with how many licensees actually complete the form. Specifically these
licensees verify the exact firearm that the customer intends to purchase prior to starting the transaction. Additionally, the transferee/buyer cannot answer item 21.a., Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form and any continuation sheet(s) (ATF Form 5200.9A), accurately if the firearm he/she is purchasing is not correctly recorded on the Form 4473.

It's a typical "Fed" response in three ways:

First it says "many FFLs did it in that order. In terms of federal register comments "many" means 50 or more. That means out of the thousands of FFLs out there, less than 1% can do it that way and the ATF can justify it by saying "many" do it that way. It's an ad populum logical fallacy and worse it doesn't even have the "ad populum" argument going for it.

Second, it's true enough that the firearm being purchased was not yet described on the old form when section A was completed. That still isn't the case most of the time on the new form as most FFLs are still having the buyer complete Section B, before they complete Section D so that they are not wasting time on a form where buyer may make an error and need to start over. (Which was why virtually every FFL did Section D last.)

More importantly, new form or old, in the real world the buyer is completing his/her section after selecting a firearm to purchase and there is no doubt by either party what firearm is being purchased. In short, the ATF attorney type bureaucrats, lacking actual field experience, have made a distinction without a practical difference.

Third, the ATF response was non responsive to the specific direction to complete Section A prior to Section D on the new form, other than a vague connection to they buyer knowing what firearm(s) he or she is purchasing. However, the intent of question 21.a is to assert and affirm that you are not making a straw purchase.

That statement applies to any firearm, whether it is listed on the form yet or not, and I am unaware of any case where a straw purchaser successfully beat a criminal charge on the basis that he or she claimed to not know what firearm(s) he or she was purchasing or claiming the statement did not apply to one that was added to the form after 21.a was answered.

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What the ATF did do, probably unintentionally and in ignorance of the actual practice where some FFLs were offering a NICS check as a service to ensure private sales were not made to prohibited persons, is make it harder to be in strict compliance with the instructions on the form and still provide that service.

Poor oversight by cognizant agencies that ignores larger intent (to provide a NICS check prevent the sale of firearms to prohibited individuals is why we can't have nice things.

If you read the fine print on the last 3 pages of the form you'll see the purpose of the form is for an FFL to show it is in compliance and not selling to an prohibited individual. Narrowly read, the form is not applicable to a private sale as there is no similar requirement for a private sale.

Some feds will read that as "if it is not specifically allowed, then it is prohibited." A good fed will read it as "if it is not specifically prohibited, and it is in line with the overall intent of the law, then it is allowed".

In this case a fed, asked how can I do this and stay in compliance would point out you have to keep a *completed* 4473 for 5 years if you get a "deny" and for 20 years if you get a "proceed" or other form of approved sale.

A good fed will point out the 4473 isn't complete until the transferor or seller signs and dates it on page 3. If that doesn't happen it's never complete and it never has t be retained. 4473s are not serialized and you do not have to account for any that are spoiled by errors. In other words, have the buyer complete Section B, do the NICS check, let the buyer and seller know you got a proceed collect your $5 and go on with your day.

A good fed will also point out that there is no need to have a 4473 on file for a gun you never logged in or out. No one is tracking NICS checks back to specific 4473s. Think about it. What happens if a buyer wants to make a purchase fills out the form, you get aproceed on the NICS check and his card is declined? Or his wife walks in and says "no"? Or he just plain changes his mind? Doing a 4473 for a private sale is no different. The 4473 isn't completed and the bound book isn't affected at all.

Worst case, let's say the ATF does a sting and has someone in the shop who notices the FFL or his/her staff never completed Section A (on the new form) before the buyer in a private sale completed Section B and a NICS check was completed.

The absolute worst thing they can do is claim that you conducted a NICS check as an FFL (totally legal) on a buyer purchasing a firearm that has never been in your possession for the nefarious purpose of ensuring a well meaning private seller did not sell a firearm to a prohibited individual.

Go ahead and hit me with that violation. It'll get laughed out of court before the first hearing occurs.

Before that happens I'll have half a dozen control letters from senators and representatives on the ATF administrators desk demanding to know why the ATF has lost all common sense and is leaning on an FFL offering a service to prevent firearms from getting into the hand of prohibited individuals. Control letters are a major PITA for an agency and before it's done the folks who started the whole mess will have reprimands in their files or will be out on the street.

If they have brain one in their head, they'll know that and won't even go there - and that'll include the guy who told you that you can't run a 4473 on a gun you have not logged in.

I’m not sure how this is classified or not, but the gun did find its way into the hands of someone not very “stable.” A lifelong friend sold the gun to my husband because his girlfriend shot herself in the stomach. Is that criminal?

Just because it cannot be concealed very well doesn’t stop some criminals. The gun is scary and is definitely a deadly weapon. I have been asked if the gun comes with bullets and if so, are they hollow points. My husband used .38 in the .357 and I have a .38 so I’m not selling bullets. A buyer should be able to get their own bullets.

Thank you. I have seen now where they’ve sold for $850. But it had the original box, which I do not have. I have wondered if not selling it and just keeping it would increase the value over time. While it is too big for me, it’s a very nice revolver. There is a Ruger forum, but I cannot find a way for new people to join.

Thank you. That would be nice!

Thank you. I am going to be patient. I have a few weeks before I’m in dire straights. I’m also selling my husbands car, which will give me some leeway.

If I sell a firearm that I purchased new, or used through an FFL, I get a Bill of Sale when I sell it. If the gun is ever used in a crime and has not been transferred to someone else, the ATF will come looking for me. I have proof that I've gotten rid of the firearm through private sale.

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otis

This is a concern of mine as well. It’s also why I’d have no problem showing my own I.D., so the buyer knows who they are buying from. If the gun was used for criminal activity on either side, it protects both buyer and seller with Bill of Sale.

In today’s times, you can probably get a fair price for it at an actual gun shop since inventory is so low. Don’t take it to a pawnshop but an actual gun shop. All assuming you just want to get rid of it without hassle. Also, most gun shops do consignment for a very small fee.

Yes that gun will only increase in value if you keep it. However, it'll probably take years to see any significant increase. So you'd probably be better off to just go ahead and sell it now if you need the money.

I understand what you're going through. I lost my wife 10 years ago. I know this is a very difficult time for you. I can only say that you never really get over the loss of your loved one. However, with time, you will make peace and learn to live with it. It will get better.

Surprised that some Texas Gentleman hasn't stepped up to help the lady.

It's Christmas and it's not like she's selling a dog

I am so sorry for the loss of your wife. I was with my husband almost 40 years. More time with him than without. I had felt he would be with me always. Today it will be 2 weeks since he passed. People tell me I should get angry to get over it quicker. I can’t. I feel blessed I had him in the first place and am grateful to God for our union. I have a 31 year old daughter who is at home, going to school to become a doctor and she’s great about us holding each other up. I am still in shock too with his passing being sudden. We plan on keeping his memory alive and honoring the life he had with us. He was a remarkable man.

Thank you for your input. I do need the money, so I will sell it then. Selling off any of his belongs feels very strange. But I know he’s want me to do what I can until the pay kicks in.

I'm a member of the Ruger forum. It doesn't have nearly the traffic on there as there is here. I've posted questions there that have gone days before an answer. Never successfully sold a gun on there, either.

Either way, I would post a For Sale post on this forum. You're already a member so no issue there. The post will get much more traction here. You might find a Texan to buy it to meet for a private sale, but shipping isn't really all that big of a deal. FFL's generally charge $40-$50 to do the transfer and ship. I sold a Ruger Security Six and a Speed Six on this very forum within the last year. Guns both went quickly.

Definitely get some sort of bill of sale. Won't need one if you transfer the gun to another FFL. Just make note of which FFL it went to. If the ATF comes calling, point them to your FFL as being the one who transferred the gun. He'll have a record of where it went. Only accept payment with a postal money order (not some Money-Gram), or if you can arrange some sort of electronic payment.

Don't worry about selling your husband's possessions. I'm sure he'd take much more pleasure knowing his gun made you some money and allowed you to be more comfortable, then if you kept his gun in a box in your closet. As much as most of us here love guns, in the end they're just inanimate objects, not something to fret about if you need to sell one to survive.

There are other considerations that prevent me, and probably others from doing that...Longview is a few hundred miles from me, and although I buy good, clean Rugers for tradebait at gun shows, that means I don't buy them at full value...I collect, or rather accumulate, S&W and Colt so the effort would be pointless to me...But I would rather she get full value and I'm sure there are plenty of willing buyers near Longview, it's just a matter of finding one......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

As executor of my Mom's meagre estate, that's the attitude I had to take when it came time to do something with all her possessions...In life they meant a great deal to her, and when she passed on, it became time to make those of us remaining here more comfortable...For what the family didn't want for keepsakes, I found new owners who are now enriching their lives with what she had gathered in life......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

Yeah. I'm executor of my step-mother's estate. She has made it very clear all of it can go without worrying about hurting her feelings. We take what we like and the rest goes. Can't buy or sell memories and those are what matter.

Still, I have a few guns I hope always stay in the family. From my kids to theirs and beyond.

There are two Ruger boards, but I'm afraid to list them. Not sure of the Rules.

But I agree that a gun would sell quicker here. GOOD photos will help, considerably.

Best of luck, both in selling the gun and in dealing with your grief and that of your daughter.

I doubt the gun's history, accident or otherwise, has any effect on your selling it. Just don't mention it. There are always shoppers trying to get ammo, holsters, etc. thrown in on a gun deal. Just tell them you don't have those items.

Pehaps a family friend, or close friend of his, would want it. Maybe someone would even loan you the value of the firearm until you can afford to purchase it back once your pay kicks in. Just a thought. Or, if you sell it to someone close to the family, do so with the stipulation that you have the first option to purchase it back if they ever get rid of it. Sorry for your loss.

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otis

Thank you. I have not thought of this. I could definitely afford to buy it back after the pay comes in and I haven’t borrowed anything where I am getting in debt. I’ll give some of his friends a call.