Webley Revolver question

Muddyboot · Dec 22, 2020

I have a friend from work who has a 1916 Webley revolver that appears to have the shaved cylinder to accept .45 ACP on moon clips. I know very little about Webley's, his question is, can he still shoot .455 ammo, or has the shaved back of the cylinder affected the ability to do so.

ralph7 · Dec 22, 2020

Good question!
Mine rattle a lot, but bet they would fire.

Alpo · Dec 22, 2020

I have seen pictures of people who took a full moon clip and modified it, so that using the modified clip and 455 ammunition you could shoot the 455.

Me - I just light load 45 Auto rim and shoot it.

Muddyboot · Dec 22, 2020

Alpo said:
I have seen pictures of people who took a full moon clip and modified it, so that using the modified clip and 455 ammunition you could shoot the 455.

Me - I just light load 45 Auto rim and shoot it.

So how does the 45 ACP shoot in the Webley, is it accurate?

Absalom · Dec 22, 2020

Muddyboot said:
.... his question is, can he still shoot .455 ammo, or has the shaved back of the cylinder affected the ability to do so.

Yes, he can, but depending on small differences in variables such as just how much was shaved and how long the hammer reach is (within tolerances), he‘ll likely experience more or fewer misfires. It all comes down to headspace and whether the reach of the hammer tip conveys enough force onto the primer.

This video contains a nice discussion and in the second half the practical solution:

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=riBaoXjzrj4[/ame]

Gene L · Dec 22, 2020

I think the .45 ACP is a higher pressure round than the .455, so I'm not sure it's the safest route.

Jack Flash · Dec 22, 2020

.455 Webley is pretty expensive. And .45 ACP pressures may be too much for it. Personally, I would only shoot it with reloads. If he doesn't reload, here is a perfect opportunity to start.

He could get some .45 Auto Rim cases and start at the beginning load, and he shouldn't go a whole lot higher. I haven't checked it in a while, but I think most reloading manuals keep their .45 AR loads pretty tame due to conversions like your friend has.

Absalom · Dec 22, 2020

Gene L said:
I think the .45 ACP is a higher pressure round than the .455, so I'm not sure it's the safest route.

I think you got the story turned around

Shooting .455, even out of a shaved .455, is the safest route precisely BECAUSE the .45 ACP loads are a higher pressure.

Rock185 · Dec 23, 2020

Muddyboot, I have a Webley MK VI. I realize some may not be concerned as long as the gun goes bang most of the time, but headspace is grossly excessive if .455 is fired in a shaved cylinder. I would advise your friend against it. There are machined steel rings available to replace the metal removed, in effect correcting headspace and allowing .455 ammo to be used without issue. I purchased one of these and have used factory .455 in my Webley with shaved cylinder. Operation was entirely normal, no misfires, no pierced primers, etc.

Attached a photo from the internet of the type of ring I purchased. I primarily use lightly loaded .45 Auto-Rim, or .45 ACP with Moon clips, in my Webley. But if the owner really wants to use the original ammo, the back-to-.455 conversion ring works well within my experience.

Muddyboot · Dec 23, 2020

Rock185 said:
Muddyboot, I have a Webley MK VI. I realize some may not be concerned as long as the gun goes bang most of the time, but headspace is grossly excessive if .455 is fired in a shaved cylinder. I would advise your friend against it. There are machined steel rings available to replace the metal removed, in effect correcting headspace and allowing .455 ammo to be used without issue. I purchased one of these and have used factory .455 in my Webley with shaved cylinder. Operation was entirely normal, no misfires, no pierced primers, etc.

Attached a photo from the internet of the type of ring I purchased. I primarily use lightly loaded .45 Auto-Rim, or .45 ACP with Moon clips, in my Webley. But if the owner really wants to use the original ammo, the back-to-.455 conversion ring works well within my experience.

Rock 185
Thank you for a great post, I think the back-to-.455 conversion ring will be the best solution for my friend. He is not really a gun guy, and wont be shooting the revolver that often. Do you know where I can find one of the conversion rings?

Alpo · Dec 23, 2020

Muddyboot said:
So how does the 45 ACP shoot in the Webley, is it accurate?

I guess that would depend on your definition of accurate.

First, I have fired a total of six rounds of 45 ACP through my gun. I just got the impression that that was too powerful a round for that old of a pistol. Since then I've been firing a 200 grain lead semi-wad cutter over a light load of bullseye. I have never put it on paper. I plink with it. But it hits the bowling pins and the steel plates and the empty Coke cans at 50 feet. That is accurate enough for me.

Golddollar · Dec 23, 2020

The bullets used in the .455 Webley loads can be bought from Reed's Bullets and Research. The standard bullet is a 265 grain hollow base bullet. Definitely do not use .45 ACP/Auto Rim factory loads in a Webley. Not only is it an issue of pressure specifications, but remember that we are dealing with a 100+ year old gun.

Rock185 · Dec 23, 2020

Muddyboot, I used common .452" 230 cast RN bullets to start, then switched to .451" 230 grain plated bullets in my Webley for easier clean up. I wondered if the old gun would even stay on the paper at 15 yards, but it did much better than I expected.

FWIW, I slugged a chamber throat and the barrel of my gun. The chamber throat was .450". I couldn't accurately measure the barrel due to the 7-groove rifling, but the largest diameter I could measure was .450". Perhaps why my .451" and .452" bullets seem to shoot just fine.

ETA: Ref a source for the ring, someone on this, or another forum, referred me to a seller. I can't recall the seller right now, but an internet search would probably turn up a source. I just checked Ebay, and saw a different, and not inexpensive, type ring from Canada, but looks to me like it would work...

OK, Think I found where I bought my conversion ring; partsforantiqueguns.com in Georgia.

Absalom · Dec 23, 2020

The nominal bullet size for .455 Webley is .454, and for the .45 ACP it's .452.

Quite apart from the pressure issue, I have yet to encounter a Webley with a trigger pull smooth and light enough that bullet differences of .002 inches could reasonably be claimed to make any difference in accuracy

Muley Gil · Dec 23, 2020

I had an unaltered MK IV and fired CIL factory .455 ammo in it. I don't know what type of powder they used, but it was the cleanest burning powder I have ever encountered.

I used unsized Lyman cast bullets in it over a modest charge of Unique.

I later bought an altered MK V. I fired regular .45 ACP in full moon clips in it, not knowing at the time of the over pressure conditions.

I need to load some moderate ammo for it. I have tons of ACP cases and some Auto Rim as well. I haven't shot it in years, but need to.

Golddollar · Dec 23, 2020

Fiocci stills makes .455 Webley ammunition. It shoots quite well. I have an unaltered Mark VI Webley and that is what I've been shooting in it.

Muddyboot · Dec 23, 2020

Rock185 said:
Muddyboot, I used common .452" 230 cast RN bullets to start, then switched to .451" 230 grain plated bullets in my Webley for easier clean up. I wondered if the old gun would even stay on the paper at 15 yards, but it did much better than I expected.

FWIW, I slugged a chamber throat and the barrel of my gun. The chamber throat was .450". I couldn't accurately measure the barrel due to the 7-groove rifling, but the largest diameter I could measure was .450". Perhaps why my .451" and .452" bullets seem to shoot just fine.

ETA: Ref a source for the ring, someone on this, or another forum, referred me to a seller. I can't recall the seller right now, but an internet search would probably turn up a source. I just checked Ebay, and saw a different, and not inexpensive, type ring from Canada, but looks to me like it would work...

OK, Think I found where I bought my conversion ring; partsforantiqueguns.com in Georgia.

I checked out the site, and ordered one of the rings; $58.00 shipped, so not a bad deal. Site says it may require some fitting, but we can deal with that.

Many thanks for the information ...

Muddyboot · Jan 15, 2021

A follow up and thanks again to Rock185 for the info on the Webley conversion ring. It works great in my friends 1916 Webley pictured below. It's a full moon clip for reconversion to the .455....

If you want to take your Webley back to the round it was made for, this is the way to go.

Muddyboot · Jan 17, 2021

This was my first shooting experience with a Webley revolver. Despite it's looks, I found the Webley a real pleasure to shoot, the big revolver has no recoil due to its size.

For me it felt like very much a point and shoot revolver, accuracy was excellent using Fiocchi's 262 Grain LRN ammo.

Though I don't own a Webley yet, I have began purchasing ammo and reloading supplies. One is definitely in my future. I really like the ones with the shorter barrels.

jimmyj · Jan 17, 2021

I have Webley Mk VI .455 Revolver that has the cylinder rear shaved for .45acp. I use .45 Auto Rim cases with light power charge and .455 lead bullets

Webley Revolver question

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