Colt .38 Police Positive

Long time girl friend's father passed away early December. We were over his condo yesterday cleaning out some belongings. Came upon this Colt Police Positive and a half box of .38 S&W ammo.

Gun was dirty but appears to be in decent shape. I gave it a light cleaning with some Ballistol and CLP. Bore and chambers are in good shape with zero pitting. Timing is right on and the lock up is vault tight. Trigger is excellent in both DA and SA. Nickel and grips are in decent shape with expected wear for a gun this age. Back strap on the grip is worn.

Never have owned a Colt revolver and hit the internet for some info. Wiki stated that the Police Positive was made from 1907 until 1947. The hard rubber grips were used until 1923 when the checkered wood grips were introduced. Apparently a frame change in 1928 with a heavier serrated top strap.

I can't find a serial number on it. This one has the smooth top strap. If assuming the grips are original (no numbers on the inside). I'm guessing that its birthday is somewhere between 1923 and 1927.

The ammo appears to be fairly recent production and is in good condition.

He was retired PD. We had a special relationship that was hard to explain. I miss my friend and can think of no better way to pay tribute to him.... than to give this baby a range run. RIP.

Any additional info will be much appreciated.
Regards Klyde

The serial has to be stamped on the frame in the yoke cut (or crane as the Colt guys call it), visible when you swing out the cylinder.

In contrast to old Smiths, that‘s the only place you‘ll find it.

That backstrap “wear” looks very odd. Completely untypical given the general condition of the nickel, so I think it means a department stamping was removed there.

Nice gun, looks to be in good condition. What PD did he work for?

Got the S/N....155121. Hopefully someone can date this. Don't know if I was in the ball park with my guess.

The metal radius on the backstrap is completely smooth with the rest of the frame. Doesn't appear to be any material removed except the nickel plating.

Thank you for the information.

Regards.

moosedog said:

Nice gun, looks to be in good condition. What PD did he work for?

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Thanks Moosedog. I believe that it is in very good mechanical condition. Other than the worn backstrap the cosmetics are decent also. A few freckles on the barrel but no flaking of the nickel.....just some nice character.

He served with the Boston PD. Retired about 20 years ago. The gun way predates his service years.

Regards

KLYDE said:

Got the S/N....155121. Hopefully someone can date this. Don't know if I was in the ball park with my guess.

The metal radius on the backstrap is completely smooth with the rest of the frame. Doesn't appear to be any material removed except the nickel plating.

Thank you for the information.

Regards.

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If it is a .38 S&W, not Special -1924.

Colt's Manufacturing LLC

Inusuit said:

If it is a .38 S&W, not Special -1924.

Colt's Manufacturing LLC

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Much appreciated. Yes....38 S&W.

Regards

KLYDE said:

Yes....38 S&W.

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Well, technically .38 Colt New Police, Colt‘s iteration of the same dimensioned cartridge.

Even though the barrel just says .38. I just explained some stuff about that in the Commando value thread if you‘re interested

Yes.....I read the other thread and also noted the same in the Wikipedia info.

They said Colt changed the bullet profile to a flat point and renamed it because they did not want to give S&W any credit by including them in the nomenclature.

Good times back then.

Klyde

KLYDE said:

He served with the Boston PD. Retired about 20 years ago. The gun way predates his service years.

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I just confirmed that Boston PD used the Police Positive in the 1920s and all of them were stamped B.P.D. plus a number on the backstrap exactly corresponding to the scrubbed section on your gun. I think we know what was there. He may have gotten the gun from an oldtimer or come across it at a pawnshop and recognized what it was.

Absalom said:

I just confirmed that Boston PD used the Police Positive in the 1920s and all of them were stamped B.P.D. plus a number on the backstrap exactly corresponding to the scrubbed section on your gun. I think we know what was there. He may have gotten the gun from an oldtimer or come across it at a pawnshop and recognized what it was.

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I'll agree with your logic but the physical evidence doesn't support it. The metal profile in that area is absolutely correct with the profile of the rest of the strap. No indentations from any punch markings on the bare metal.

I would think that even punching the nickel hard enough to imprint an insignia would transfer the figure to the metal underneath. At least mar it so that some damage would be visible.

Looked at it close with a strong magnifying glass. Damage free.

One possibility would be surface etching. I'd agree with that Definitely not a stamped logo. It would be fantastic if I could confirm BPD property.

Only those long departed know for sure. Only if the gun could talk.

Appreciate your input and thank you for the help.

Regards

Absalom said:

I just confirmed that Boston PD used the Police Positive in the 1920s and all of them were stamped B.P.D. plus a number on the backstrap exactly corresponding to the scrubbed section on your gun. I think we know what was there. He may have gotten the gun from an oldtimer or come across it at a pawnshop and recognized what it was.

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Did B.P.D. order any nickel ones? Taking a glance online at the other Boston PD Colt Police Positives that pop up in a Google search and you quickly notice that all of them appear to be very well worn.

Absalom said:

I just confirmed that Boston PD used the Police Positive in the 1920s and all of them were stamped B.P.D. plus a number on the backstrap exactly corresponding to the scrubbed section on your gun. I think we know what was there. He may have gotten the gun from an oldtimer or come across it at a pawnshop and recognized what it was.

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DANG!!!! Nothing would make me happier than for you to be right. What a tribute it would be. I'd have a presentation case made with his badge and the Colt. I'm wanting in the worst way to see something but just don't see it.

Running a finger over the backstrap....the only material that appears to be missing is the nickel plating. The bare steel is baby butt smooth and correct in profile.

Be interesting to know what procedure they used for marking.

Klyde

If it is a .38 S&W, not Special -1924.

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For the record, I think that a Colt Police Positive in .38 Special would be clearly marked "Police Positive Special". See below:

reddog81 said:

Did B.P.D. order any nickel ones? Taking a glance online at the other Boston PD Colt Police Positives that pop up in a Google search and you quickly notice that all of them appear to be very well worn.

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I don't know. Of course there are other possibilities. Detroit also marked in that area, and they ordered mostly nickel.

The wear would not seem an issue to me. Nickel actually held up quite well. That's why the backstrap is definitely a scrub and not wear. Here are a couple of Detroit-stamped Colts, a PP from 1928 and an OP from 1941:




The backstrap is from a 1920s Bankers Special:

Here's some "Colt New Police" ammo i have that is just .38 S&W with a flat point and different markings.

Try a rubbing on the backstrap with a thin sheet of paper and a soft pencil lead. You might be surprised what appears.

If something was on the backstrap it can be raised with acid. Check with your crime lab. It won't damage the rest of the gun.

Old_Cop said:

If something was on the backstrap it can be raised with acid. Check with your crime lab. It won't damage the rest of the gun.

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I'm retired too.

Looking at the "scrub", I'll have to agree with Absalom, that it appears to be a grind area. The linear pattern of the top and bottom edges.

However the bare area is smooth as a babies hind end. Running a finger nail across the rub at 90 degrees is like running it over the hood of a waxed car. Smooooth. If it was done with a grinder striations would be evident.

Looking at the pictures of the Detroit guns I'm wondering how the insignia was applied. Thinking about it.....stamping a nickel
finish would probably fracture the nickel coating. I'm wondering what the process is.

Also, how whatever was there was removed. I agree with being sanded off. Which might be a possibility if they only had to remove the nickel coating. It is that smooth.

I ran a pencil and thin paper test.....nothing.

Thanks for the input.
Klyde

The nickel finish looks a little dull, you can bring it back to a nice shine with some Flitz metal polish. Does a great job on nickel...