9mm 1911??? What? Thats crazy talk! Why???

Shot my Sig 1911 yesterday. Been sitting for some time. It is ,5" acp. Did pretty darn good with it. Have a S&W .45 acp. 5". Then there is a RIA Tactical II, in .40 S&W. It is a commander. Lastly have a RIA Tactical in 9mm, 5" barrel. I like them all! Bob

If you can get your hands on a Dan Wesson ECO that would be good money spent. I consider that gun one of the best 9mm 1911s you can get if not the best 9mm in any configuration period! Also the Ruger Officer size SR1911 is a good money too if you dont got the cabbage for the ECO.

The Hi-Power is a great gun but it's discontinued, "new" or "like-new" examples are pricey. It still has pretty good support but even that can't hold a candle to the support for 1911s. It was never available in the variety of formats (Officer, Commander, etc.) that the 1911 is. At least not on a production gun basis.

For new purchases today the BHP isn't really a practical option. The 1911 has wide availability in any price range and enormous parts / magazine / repair support. Despite its age its popularity seems to constantly increase. It's phenomenal really.

I shoot revolvers mostly. But even I have two 1911's. A .45 and a 9mm.

Only new Colt Commander I owned was a 9mm back in early 70s. Had S&W 39 and Browning HP at time. The only good point of the 1911 in 9mm was that it tolerated and functioned with any 9mm you could shove in it.
Down side was lousy accuracy. Also I never wanted a Win m70, 22 Hornet.
Why carry full size package with cartridge of less power?

gregintenn said:

What’s the paperclip for?

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Most 1911s with full length guide rods have a hole in the hide rod designed to allow a bent paper clip or similar “disassembly tool” to be inserted.



When you release the slide, it maintains the compression on the recoil spring so that you can remove the slide with out having to fight the recoil spring.



It then allows you to remove the recoil spring assembly.



At that point you can leave it that way apply some oil and just reinstall it, or you can put pressure on the spring to hold it, remove the paper clip and slowly release the spring.




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Not all 1911s with solid guide rods used that method. My first 1911 was a Randall Combat Model and while it had a full length guide rod, it had a slot cut in it to allow you to depress the open ended recoil spring retainer by the edge with the base of the magazine and then rotate the barrel bushing through the slot in the guide rod. From that point disassembly was like a GI 1911.

TheHobbyist said:

Glad you got something you really like, OP. Cool.

Literally the only reason I didn't pursue 1911/9MM is because I have a ton of 1911/.45 mags and was concerned that I might mix a mag in with the wrong group. Have shot many (1911/9mm) with a good experience.

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Given the rib on the side of the 9mm magazines I have never mistaken a 9mm magazine for a .45 ACP magazine or vice versa.

I have however mistaken the shorter officer model magazine for the full size magazine. *That* is a serious problem as the magazine will seat just fine with the bullet way too low to feed.



I normally only carry the full length magazines in my spare magazine carrier. The full size magazines function just fine in the commander grip frame 1911s and give you an extra round. The extra length also makes them very positive to seat, even without a bumper pad on the bottom.

The perfect 9 mm 1911 has been with us since the 20's in the form of a 38 Super. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Walter Rego said:

I understand why they do it, but it's a shame that the major manufacturers of the 1911 type pistols these days don't take a clue from Star and offer a variant in 9mm that is scaled around the 9mm round. If you have had the pleasure of handling a Star Model B you will know what I mean.

I like my 1948 Colt Super .38 because, well, because it is a Super .38. But a .45 frame and slide sized Government Model or Commander in 9mm ? Meh....

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dandyrandy said:

Though much smaller for the CCW market the Kimber Micro 9 is an example of a 1911 designed around the 9mm and also the Sig alternative. Ive had several Star model Bs and though they are there own thing nevertheless they are heavy steel guns that are about the same size as a traditional 9mm 1911. Parts and magazine availability can get ridiculous with those Star pistols so I stick to the traditional 1911 design. I never had a Star BM however could never get into one because the new line of carry 9mms make the BM completely obsolete. You can find them ridiculously cheap though on the used surplus market which makes them attractive as long as the price is right.

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I’m a bit biased as I have three Star BM pistols and in total they cost me about the same as my single Micro 9.

I had high hopes for the Micro 9 but I think the Star BM does it better in every category in terms of actual shooting. At 37 ounces loaded it is much more controllable and can be shot with accuracy much faster than the 21 oz Micro 9. The Star BM is a pound more to carry, but it is very well sized to the 9mm Luger cartridge and carries 9 rounds rather than just 7 in the Micro 9.

The Star BM retains most of the pleasant handling of the 1911, but in a slightly smaller yet still easy to control and comfortable to shoot all day long package.

dandyrandy said:

Thats interesting because my 9mm 1911s always sound like a more powerful gun like they are shooting magnum cartridges or something. Its weird because my 45 1911s have more of a pop pop sound to them and the 9mm has a deep sharp magnum sound to it... It always weirds me out like what they heck am I shooting here? and everyone around me thinks Im shooting 10 mm or something? Especially when the 9mm is such a soft recoiling 1911 and my 45s are more of a long hard push. My Beretta M9 was the same way sounded like a more powerful gun.

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It’s a matter of chamber pressure and bore diameter.

The 9mm Luger operates at magnum pressures of 35,000 psi, just like the .357 Magnum and blasts it out the same diameter bore. The 9mm+P operates at 38,500 psi, 3500 psi more than the .357 Magnum.

In comparison the .45 ACP operates at 21,000 psi (and 23,000 psi in +P form).

In terms of decibels, the difference is significant. The 9mm Luger produces 160 dB while the .45 ACP produces 157 dB. That doesn’t sound like much difference until you consider that the acoustic energy measured by decibels is not linear. The acoustic energy level doubles every 3 dB, so the 9mm is literally twice as loud as the .45 ACP.

That also makes the .45 ACP less damaging to you as the shooter and your hearing when you are forced to fire in self defense in an enclosed space.

I’m split roughly 50/50 on the issue.

I *like* .45 ACP and I’m old enough to recall when 9mm Luger first became a thing in US law enforcement. It got off to a bad start with a few jurisdictions insisting it be fielded with FMJ ammo under the flawed argument that if it is good enough for NATO it’s good enough for law enforcement, without understanding the key differences in roles and rules. The poor performance continued with the less than reliable hollow points available then.

On the other hand I noted shooting practical pistol competition that I could score 3 A zone hits with a 1911 in 9mm in the same it took to score just 2 A zone hits with a 1911 in .45 ACP.

I realized that the major/minor category distinctions and scoring formats generally still gave the advantage to the .45 ACP. At the same time I also realized:

1) practical pistol shooting and rules designed to promote competition were causing it to become increasingly removed from the reality of real world shoots;

2) that Jeff Cooper had become out of date;

3) modern 9mm hollow points were not giving up much at all to the .45 ACP in terms of terminal performance on assailants;

4) three wound channels in an assailant form modern 9mm hollow points had a significantly better chance of obtaining rapid incapacitation than 2 wound channels from .45 ACP hollow points fired in the same amount of time; and

5) you can carry 9 or 10 rounds per magazine with 9mm compared to 7 or 8 for the .45 ACP.

In short, it’s hard to argue against the 9mm 1911 compared to a 1911 in .45 ACP when it comes to self defense.

Either way the 1911 has a generally excellent trigger with a very short reset and it double taps faster than just about any other pistol on the planet. The 9mm Luger cartridge just takes that to full advantage.

That change over time is reflected In my current stable of 1911s

On the left side I have the .45 ACP pistols with a Kimber Gold Match II, a Charles Daly version of the Colt Commander, a Kimber Compact CDP II, and a Kimber Ultra Carry II.

The the right side, I have a Ruger SR1911 Lightweight Commander, a Kimber Pro Carry II, a Citadel Officer Model, and (with honorable mention as a sorta 1911, but one very right sized for the 9mm Luger cartridge) one of my three Star BM 9mm pistols.

Right now, nearly all my concealed carry is split between the Kimber CDP and the Pro Carry. I shoot both of them extremely well. I’m slightly faster with the 9mm Pro Carry, but the .45 ACP is still .45 ACP and still inspires a great deal of confidence when it smacks a steel plate. That confidence easily generalizes to self defense purposes.

You can have it all on one .45 frame. Easy to find a 9mm slide which can be used for both 9mm and .38 Super, matching barrels, and a 9mm/.38 Super ejector. That, plus magazines (and recoil springs), gives you three CF calibers on the same frame. You can interchange in a couple of minutes.

stansdds said:

The bottleneck cartridge was the .38/.45 Clerke. I don't think this was ever a factory chambering.
.38/.45 Clerke - Wikipedia

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Then there is the .400 Cor-Bon, for which I have the greatest admiration. Just a necked-down .45 ACP, a very simple case to form if you have the reloading dies, and they are readily available from Lee. Forget factory ammo. The only drawback is the magazine capacity is the same as .45 ACP. All you need to convert is a .400 Cor-Bon barrel. I bought one for $40 some years ago. Ballistically, it can be loaded to 10mm levels if you wish. I don't do that.
.400 Cor-Bon - Wikipedia

According to John Browning there is a better option.....

DWalt said:

You can have it all on one .45 frame. Easy to find a 9mm slide which can be used for both 9mm and .38 Super, matching barrels, and a 9mm/.38 Super ejector. That, plus magazines (and recoil springs), gives you three CF calibers on the same frame. You can interchange in a couple of minutes.

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One of the positives of many of the 9mm 1911s out there (Ruger, Kimber, etc) is the barrel integrated feed ramp.

I particularly like that feature with aluminum frame 1911s as some magazines (with compressible magazine followers that allow an extra round) will “peck” at an aluminum feed ramp when the last round in the magazine drags the follower forward. A barrel integrated feed ramp makes that a non issue.

An integrated feed ramp is not essential to reliability (I have a Citadel 1911 in 9mm with a conventional feed ramp that is very reliable), but it makes it easier to engineer a reliable 9mm
1911.

In any case, having multiple slides/barrels in multiple calibers for a 1911 is certainly a valid approach, just be careful that you are getting a package that has been well engineered to function reliably with all of the cartridges involved.



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Someone also commented that the 9mm in a 1911 wastes the available space in the magazine well. My thoughts on that are “not really”. That’s particularly true in the commander and officer model frame 1911s were the slide over run distance goes from not much to almost none.

Most 9mm magazines are designed with a spacer in the back that moves the cartridge forward slightly. That creates more slide over run distance and generally improves reliability, especially in the shorter slide 1911s where the slide over run distance is reduced compared to a full size 1911.

A .45 ACP S&W semi auto??? What? Thats crazy talk! Why???

Because the Performance Center Target Champignon easily outshoots most 1911s.

SA Mil Spec still in the safe.

The Colt Series 80 Mark IV Govt model was bought used with some kitchen table Gunsmithing done to it. Been awhile since I checked but it’s probably about 30 years old. New Commander Hammer, Sear, recoil spring and she is a Decent shooter. Now that I got the extractor just right she is rock solid as far as reliability.

The Kimber Custom 2 Two tone is a more accurate (I think they call it “tack driver”) but less reliable gun. About a stovepipe every couple magazines or so on the last trip. Extractor seems to be fine so haven’t figured it out yet. May be a magazine issue, could be a more Magazine sensitive gun than the Colt. Next time out will probably have to take enough to cycle through each mag at least 3 times then take time to isolate out and label each one based on performance. She was bought new and is 1-200 rounds past the 500 round break in. A lot of people say some Kimbers are glitchy until the 5-600 round mark then they suddenly just run. So I should know what it needs after the next trip out.

I don’t regret messing with the platform. They are fun shooters, you just have to know you’re shooting ammo the platform wasn’t designed for so some tuning may be necessary.

Shot a friend's Wilson Combat 1911 9mm. Sweet trigger and amazing accuracy. My personal 1911 inventory includes a full size .45 ACP Sig Blackwater, and a recently inherited micro 9mm Sig p938. Happy with both .

What!? 77 posts and I'm the only guy who carrys the torch for the "House Brand" 9mm 1911? Really there's no more difference in the .45 vs 9mm in the 1911, than there is in the .357 vs .44 in the N-frame.

Blasphemy!

When I want to shoot or carry a full size 9mm...it's a Browning High Power.

1911 is a .45acp

The 1911 has been chambered for the 9mm since about 1948-49; the .38 Super since about 1930. Nothing new. I have a couple 9mm 1911s. So much fun to shoot.