I have an 1892 Colt .38. I can't find any ammunition for it and I'm wondering what it's worth. Would anyone know where I can get the ammo for it? And if anyone knows what it's worth, I'd appreciate it. Thank you.

Ammo for these is 38 Long Colt. It's basically
an underpowered 38 Special. Don't use 38
Special in it. The pressures are higher than the
original loading. Also the cylinder is bored
straight through. You wouldn't want to shoot
357 through it

Without pics, value might be 200 to 250 (A
guess). They are somewhat delicate with a
lot of unavailable flat springs and fitted parts.
They were the US Army's service pistol in the
1898 Spanish-American war, and failed miserably, having low stopping power against
a determined enemy in the Phillipines.

Their main claim to fame is that they are the
first swing out cylinder revolver appearing in
1889.

I don't know if anyone is making 38 Long Colt ammo but if it is being made it would be a specialty item. I do know that Starline Brass company makes 38 Short colt brass for competitive shooters to use in our S&W Model 627 8-shot revolvers. You could contact them about Long Colt brass. I use 38 Special dies to make Short Colt ammo.

Don't give up; where there's a will there's a way!

__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821

Handbook of Cartridge Conversions says that .38 Special trimmed to 1.031 inches overall length makes a perfectly good substitute.

Is yours Military Or civilian? How about a photo or two?

Murph

The early ones I think still used the outside Lube 'Heeled' Bullet version of .38 Long Colt, ( .375 Bullet Diameter ), and later type inside Lube Cartridges, the Bullet ( .357 ) is quite a bit too small.

So, which Cartridge it takes will depend on when it was made.

Are the Cylinders bored 'straight through'? Or do they have a 'step'?

As someone noted above, the .38 Long Colt was a military cartridge that is just an underpowered .38 Special. Responding to the bad press from the Philippines, Smith and Wesson lengthened the Army's service cartridge by a small amount, upped the bullet weight and powder charge a little bit to bring the .38 Special to the market in its Military & Police revolver. That's why the .38 Smith and Wesson Special is a longer version of Colt's cartridge rather than a longer version of S&W's proprietary 38. The idea was to promote the fact that both the US Service cartridge (aka .38 Long Colt) and the new .38 S&W Special could be fired in the new Military & Police revolver. Early ones are even marked that way.

As a practical matter .38 Special target loads using hollow base wadcutters will shoot just fine. The pressures are low and the hollow base addresses the question of bore size.

Originally the .38 Colt cartridge had an outside lubricated bullet. The bore diameter was .363 until the M1903 version came out and the diameter was reduced to .357 to better fit the inside lubricated ammunition. Link is to a PDF copy of the 1917 revision of the US Army manual for the revolver. Be patient.

https://ia902705.us.archive.org/2/it...00unitrich.pdf

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I had a case of a not very successful attempted armed robbery. The deceased suspect was armed with one of these Colt Model 1892 revolvers, only he had loaded it with .38 Super cartridges. The cylinder wasn't bulged, but the barrel split.

In an earlier Colt A&N, the chambers were bored straight through, so .38 Special cases will chamber. A light .38 Special reload or a .38 Special wadcutter target load (preferably with hollow-base bullets) would work OK. If you can find any .38 Short Colt ammo, that would be OK also.

As previously stated, if you manage to break any internal parts, good luck on finding a replacement. Those old Colts have a reputation for being somewhat delicate and difficult to work on. I suspect no gunsmith today would even consider working on one. If you do choose to shoot it, I would advise limiting the amount of shooting you do.

As for most any revolver, its condition largely determines its value. In average condition, probably around $250-$300. In high condition, maybe $500. They are not that unusual, and even Colt collectors wouldn't be very interested in one unless in very high condition.

These were used during the Spanish-American war, and also the subsequent Philippine insurrection (where they didn't perform very well against the Jurimentados). They also saw some rear-area use during WWI.

As several people stated the correct ammo is the 38 Long Colt round. Many people do use 38 Special wadcutter target loads with some success as pressures are low and the hollow base versions will shoot fairly well in the bore meant for the older round.

I am not aware of any current production of 38 Long Colt but 38 Short Colt has been available in limited runs from time to time and will shoot just fine in these older guns. Of course with the current ammo situation anything you find will be old stock. The last actual 38 Long Colt I've seen was Fiocchi as they seem to have imported a bunch a few years ago (labelled as 380 Longo actually) and I have used it myself in some older guns I've had. Actually saw a bunch of it at the last Knob Creek MG shoot on a vendors table so there still seems to be some floating around

I'm not saying you should do this, but I loaded . 38 special cases with 148 gr hollow base swaged wadcutters over the classic 2.7 gr Bullseye for mine. That is an "underpowered . 38 special load" that will obturate to fill the larger bore. Thats what I shot through mine to satisfy the itch to shoot it. That was 30 yrs ago, the action is so stiff I never really longed to do it again, just made sure it went bang and hit the target.

Recently I read a Duke Venturino article where he advocated the same thing.

The stuff is available, if you can find it in-stock. But as said above, .38 Special brass will work.





As for the value of the gun, that depends on a few factors. All-original and matching military specimen in good or better condition will easily bring 500 or more. The civilian Army-Navy variants, on the other hand, do not get a lot of collector interest, and are hard to sell unless pristine (and that condition is rare; people didn’t buy these as sock drawer guns).

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With all the good info coming in, imho I wouldn't
shoot it at all. Get an m&p mdl 10 for a shooter.
Basically the same weapon with ammo and parts way more available.

With all the good info coming in, imho I wouldn't
shoot it at all. Get an m&p mdl 10 for a shooter.
Basically the same weapon with ammo and parts way more available. Remember its a delicate 130 (or thereabouts) year old revolver

Just curious, does that Ultramax and Black Hills have the correct diameter heeled bullet, or a modern solid . 357-.358?

I don’t know. The Black Hills ammo is just given as 158gr RNL (the historic load was around 150gr), so I suspect it’s just a moden solid; the picture below is from BH’s website.





And just to clarify: The Navy, which first adopted this model in 1889, used a blackpowder load with a 150gr externally lubricated heeled bullet, nominal diameter of bullet and case being .376. The Navy discontinued this ammunition in 1897 and adopted the Army load.

The Army cartridge adopted in 1892 was highly likely a smokeless load from the start. It contained an internally lubricated .357 bullet with crimped case. BUT: The chambers remained cylindrical, no modifications relative to the Navy variant, so accuracy with the Army .357 load was apparently acceptable. Here is my Model 1901 (made in 1901) with a modern .38 Special inserted from the front.





The case for smokeless is circumstantial but compelling. In an appendix to the 1893 Annual Report of the Chief of Ordnance the .38 ammunition is discussed. Bob Best, who (literally) wrote the book on these Colts, discovered a remark that no reloading tools have been issued, and quotes the report: “It is probable that reloading smokeless powders by troops at posts will not be practical”.

This is a detail snip borrowed from Bob Best’s book:

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A little more information on the .38 LC cartridge from "History of Modern U. S. Military Small Arms Ammunition." The Navy version used a 150 grain .376" heeled bullet from 1889 until 1897, all made under contract. The Army adopted a similar cartridge but using a .353" 148 grain recessed (hollow) base inside-lubricated bullet in 1892, but none were made until 1893. Black powder (15.4 grains) was used as the propellant until fiscal year 1900, when a change to smokeless powder (3.0 grains of Bullseye) was made. Ammunition was made at Frankford Arsenal beginning in 1893, but it was also purchased under contract from the civilian ammunition factories. It remained in production at Frankford until 1918 as there was a continuing need for using the revolver in a limited role during WWI. Throughout its production, there were several changes made in case length and bullet design. There was even some experimentation done using a longer case (almost .38 Special length) and a heavier (160 gain) expanding "manstopper" bullet at a higher muzzle velocity, in the expectation of obtaining better combat performance. But it was not officially adopted for political reasons (Hague Convention).

TR carried an M1889 Navy salvaged from the Maine. It's a first generation design, makes you appreciate the later designs and see how they learned from experience.

Counting the Model 1889 DA revolver (the first having a swing-out cylinder) used by the Navy, I think there were something like 7 or 8 later variations of that basic model, not including the civilian versions in several different barrel lengths. I have no idea what the differences among them were, but I assume they were various improvements over the original Model 1889. While most were chambered in .38 LC, the civilian model was also available in .41 Long Colt, and toward the end of production, some were made in .32-20 and .38 Special. I don't know how many were made in each caliber, but over the years I have seen more than a few in .41 Long Colt.

For a long time, I have been interested in buying a high-condition example chambered for the .41 LC, but have never found one. Most I have seen have been in the "Wallhanger Shadow Box" category. I remember a gun show some years ago that one vendor had four of them, all in relic condition. I do have five full boxes of old .41 LC ammo I could use in it if I ever find one. I have read that Colt revolvers in .41 LC were once highly favored in Mexico, much more so than in the USA.

Two yeas ago, before the pandemic, I used to see boxes of Cowboy Action 38LC on the shelves at Fin, Feathers & Fur over in Ohio. You might try their web site.

Back in '75, a distant cousin of mine, and her family were murdered by her BIL with a 38 LC. I don't recall the type of handgun used, but the unusual cartridge was part of the circumstantial evidence that eventually got him convicted. Reportedly he bought a box of it in CA and rode a small motorcycle from southern Cal to mid-state Iowa to do the deed. There was a book written on it called "Brother's Blood", IIRC.

And thus ends the extent of my knowledge of 38LC.

The orig 38 Colt Short used the healed bullet that was .375d as it was the conversion cartridge for the Colt C&B 36cal revolvers.
The 36cal of those revolvers refered to the bore dia,,not the groove dia.
The groove dia was .375/380.

So when they converted the revolvers to cartridge firing from C&B,,they bored the cylinders straight thru for the cartridge.
The bullet needed to be .375d.
The case was .380 od and used a healed bullet of .375/.380d

This is where the .38caliber' comes from.

The later versions of the 38Colt (short) and 38Colt Long used an inside lubed bullet of .357d.
The first loading still used the old bbl specs and the bullet was propelled by BP. The idea was that the bullet would expand to fill the bore and grooves, which it did.
The newer smokeless loading ,,not so well.
The bore dia was then reduced to the current .357 to match the inside lubed bullet they were using.

Kind of the same thing happened with the 41Colt and the 44 Colt

The 41 started out with the healed bullet at groove dia.
Then the later loading used an inside lubed bullet of less than groove dia that was expected to expand upon firing to fill the groove dia.

The 44Colt was the other conversion cartridge of the Colt C&B revolvers.
This for the 44 C&B guns. But 44cal was again the bore dia. The groove dia was a 45cal at .454.
The 44Colt uses a healed bullet at .454dia. The 44cal designation comes from the bore dia of the barrel.
(.44Russian brass with the ,454 healed bullet makes a decent .44Colt cartridge.

I just checked Starline web site. They do make and sell 38 Long Colt brass only. I'm confident it's NOT the old heel bullet brass.

__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821

The original heeled bullet cartridge (Navy type) used a slightly shorter case than the later Army type cartridges having the inside lubricated bullet. The book says that the extra length for the Army case was needed because the case mouth crimped into a groove on the inside lubricated bullet. Otherwise, there were no dimensional differences between the Navy and later Army cases. I didn't check the ammunition catalogs, but for sure the .38 LC was factory loaded and available until at least the late 1970s, so there is likely to be some of that old ammo still around. I bought some back then from a store that was going out of business. And so far as I know, .38 Short Colt ammunition is still being made. And of course, it also uses the .357 inside lubricated bullet. The .38 SC is actually a fairly useful round for use in snubby .38 Special revolvers having short extractor rods, especially if reloaded. The factory .38 SC round is fairly puny performer, in the same class as the factory .38 S&W cartridge. But it can be easily handloaded to reach .38 Special performance, especially if using lighter bullets.