Does anybody make a decent looking PCC? I'd buy one, but they are too ugly.

I'm thinking something like the old Ruger 44 Carbine. With a 20 round magazine. Or maybe M1 Carbine in 9mm.

Everyone I see on the internet looks too 21st century for my taste.

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I've still got it made.

Perhaps one of the Thompson M1 varients by Auto-Ordnance? Walnut and steel/alloy and 45 ACP and 9x19.

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BCCI Life Member #2068

Marlin Camp Carbine from the '80's?

Prepare for sticker shock for any of the new or old PCCs with wood stocks. Even the polymer ones are grossly overpriced for what they are IMHO. I mean, is it really that hard to make a blowback 9mm with a long barrel? Only the Hi Point is a reasonable price, but then it only takes their single stack mags. I thought Ruger were going to bring that market back to sensibility with their PCC until I saw the price.

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Release the Kraken

A Camp 45 (top) and 9 (bottom) with Boyds laminate stocks. The factory stocks on these rifles were notorious for cracking near the heel of the receiver. The Boyds laminate replacement stocks do not crack.

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I’ve got the Marlin Camp 9 as well. Nice rifle, lacks some of the more modern refinements but a solid rifle. Sadly as another poster pointed out the PCC market is through the roof just like the Lever action PCC market. About 8 years ago many internet commandos squashed the value and purpose of these rifles and now they are very popular!


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Other than a lever action .44 mag mine all look pretty 'black rifley'.

My old school Ruger .40 has a polymer stock but a beefed up 1022 appearance. An Uzi carbine has had it's metal folder replaced with a surplus wooden solid stock, far more comfortable to shoot.

The new Ruger is the obvious choice these days. I assure you that any PCC will become a favorite once you get it to the range. An inexpensive red dot turns a PCC into the ultimate range toy fun gun. I forgive them their appearance.

I have a 9mm AR that is set up exactly like my 5.56 and 6.8 carbines. It's a training tool rather than a fun gun and lets me run short range drills on my pistol steel.

I've had a Marlin Camp 45 since the mis 90's. I had 5 Camp 9's over the years, and always found them lacking!

IMHO (not very humble!), the ultimate PCC is a good old M-1 Carbine. I have acquired 8 boxes of Winchester 110 grain SHP ammo, basically a 357 semi-auto!

Back when I was doing gun shows in the 80-90's, I bought an ammo crate of 15 round mags for $2 each! I kept enough for me and made lots of money on the rest!

My wife is tall and thin, and like many women of her build, has trouble with Mini-14 and AR platform guns in the offhand position. She can handle any PPC of traditional layout, so she has her own M-1 for SHTF and SD usage.

Ammo isn't any worse than anything else to find, but I think reloading bullets may be a few years in coming. I have two bullet molds that work well, and a couple thousand of FMJ reloads.

Ivan

Ivan,

I will give you credit as the M1 Carbine is superior to the Marlin Camp rifles. More expensive to feed generally than the 9mm Camp but a better trigger, better sights, better components and long term quality. I still like the Camp 9 but my M1 would be my constant range companion if I could keep it fed.


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Tommy gun works well, you can always get a wood fixed stock for the Uzi, and I'm choosing wither to put the wooden fixed stock I've got for my C93 or my HK94 clone. Plenty of good options out there.

Here’s a good looking .45acp pcp, imo. Has that MP5 look. Built it a few years ago.

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Really nice. So that is a .45 pistol, right?
Larry

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Miss My Buddy crsides!!

The Marlins were nice, but used a single stack 1911 mag in the 45acp version, or a S&W double stack mag in 9mm. The problem with either of the Marlin versions was not if the stock was going to split, but WHEN it would when using it regularly! Boyd made a replacement, idk if they still do. Ruger did make the 44 mag in a Deerstalker model, but no way for a 20 mag in either of the versions.

Lever gun? Ridiculous prices, cannot find one under a grand! That’s just a plain Jane 30/30. 44 mag, or 357 mag Marlin? Seems like you just have to give the seller a blank check and hope he doesn’t hurt you too awful bad…

Ruger in 9mm or 40, the only way to go imho. GLOCK or Ruger mags if you want, yes even the 50 round drum. With a decent dot sight anything in 150 yards is owned. Wife keeps hers upstairs in her office, just in case.

Hers cost $600 hundy when it first came out, because it’s what she wanted. I scored mine on the last day of a gun show with a couple of mags for $350 nib as it was time to get some gas money!

They both run slicker then snot with whatever we run thru them, but they both prefer 147-150 grain bullets. Let us know what you end up with.

Regards,
Rick Gibbs.

The original Ruger PC9. PC standing for Police Carbine. It looks like a 10/22. It takes Ruger P series mags. I have a Ruger 44 carbine PC9 and 10/22…….. from 20ft hard to tell apart.

Yes it is boykin.

I forgot all about the shoulder stocked C-96 "Broomhandle" Mauser! I love mine, but if you think lever action pistol caliber carbines are pricey or expensive to feed, you ain't seen nothin' yet!

I'll still go with the Marlin Camp 45 and a companion 1911. With a round up the pipe, a mag in each gun and 2 spare mags (all Shooting Star 8 round mags) That is 34 rounds of 45 ACP. If that can't get you out of trouble (or into very deep trouble) you really bit off too much! (my normal "field" holster has a spare mag too , so there is 8 more rounds.

The wife's 1944 IBM M-1 Carbine is kept in the front row of the gun safe with a loaded mag inserted and two on the buttstock! That's 45 rounds of 357 mag equivalent. There are more mags and ammo if needed.

I used to laugh at the Zombie Killers. Then after the "Peaceful Demonstrations" awhile back, Maybe the Zombie Killers have a point! But there will be a terrible price to pay afterward!

Ivan

I knew a WWII "Civilian Technician" for the OSS. He was of the opinion a Colt 1903/1908 in 32 ACP with the one loaded mag was all you really needed to get out any real of trouble.

Original M1 Carbine prices have gotten excessive, but those high prices have prompted the production of new M1 carbines.

.30 carbine ammunition has also gotten expensive, but that’s also an artifact of it being less common and less in demand. That will change if interest in the M1 carbine continues to grow.

I have a number of 9mm carbines as well as a few .357 Mag lever guns and three M1 carbines (an Underwood, a Saginaw and a Quality Hardware). The M1 carbines are by far the best compromise as they offer a reasonable 250 yard trajectory and accuracy with 357 magnum terminal ballistics. The 9mm’s only benefit is lower cost. But from a cost of production standpoint .30 carbine isn’t that much more expensive to produce, it just doesn’t have the same volume of production advantages.

And that can change.

Until it does, loading .30 carbine with 110 gr plated bullets is not much more expensive than loading 9mm with plated bullets.

Here's my Camp 45......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

What the heck is that thing?!? Is that a full custom job on a Camp 45? It’s very cool looking, not really the wood and blued steel under discussion but I like it!


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You talked about looks but nothing on"for what purpose"?

Winchester Trapper in .357 or .44
Ruger 77/357 bolt gun 5rd mag....77/44 in .44 mag

Personally don't view the M-1 carbine as a PCC ...... more of a light rifle round! So there are a bunch of .223 like the 20" CZ 527 FS/mannlicher stock that I'd put in the same class!

My Camp 45 and Dad's Camp 9 (now inherited by my brother) are both from the early 90's and NEVER had any sort of stock issue. But neither of us did any "rattle battle" type of shooting.

I pot 42mm Tasco red dot scopes on both. Dad's 9mm was zeroed at 75 yards knowing he wouldn't shoot it any further. Mine (Camp 45) was zeroed at 50, knowing I would.

Dad lived in the middle of a 210 acre hill farm, and had about 100 acres of woods. Raccoons were a constant problem! One night he doge went wild and 5 kit raccoons were on a tree limb and staring at him. He grabbed the Camp 9 and a very bright flashlight in his left. He turned the dot intensity down to match the red glow from the raccoons' eyes. He started on the left and in a slow sweep came to each raccoon. When a 'coon had 3 eyes he pulled the trigger. Only the fifth kit got away! At the 10-20 yards this happened at, an M-1 Carbine would have too much recoil to pull this off!

A Ruger 10-22 set up like this would have been better, but dad never warmed up to 10-22's, he liked his Mossberg semi-auto mom gave him for their first Christmas (1950)!

Ivan

I bought it at a gun show because I've been looking so long for a decent original Camp 45, and finding nothing that I would waste space in my safe for at a decent price...I think the only part of this one that is intact from the original is the lower receiver and possibly part of the barrel...I have not shot it, nor had it apart yet due to the constraints of time, but I bought it because it was priced (by the builder) at about the same price I see on some really trashy other examples...And there's always the cool factor to consider......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

Very cool. I’ve wanted a camp 45 for a long time as well and they have just never been in my range. I think the camp carbines are great rifles in the $600 range. Above that I just think there are better ways to spend your money and the Camp 45 is always $800+ even for beat up rifles.


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That's why I considered an even grand to be fair market value for this 90% new one......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

Couldn't agree more, the CZ527 variants are great rifle/carbines, I have one of the FS versions as well as one of the American versions. Now that they stopped production of these they are only going to go up in value.

Now, as a PCC or whatever you want to call them, the CZ just isn't up to speed, what with the 5 round magazines, it's too limited (I'm not aware of higher capacity mags, but if they are out there that would help).

Recently bought a pair of the new Ruger American Ranch rifles (bolt action) in .223/5.56, now that's a fantastic package for PCC use as it takes standard AR15 mags, in fact it comes with a MagPul 10 rounder. They also have threaded barrels for suppressed use. Other calibers include the 300 Blackout, 350 Legend, 7.62 x 39, 6.5 Grendel and the 450 Bushmaster for whoever likes those calibers.

Here's a phonto I borrowed from the Web:

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.............SmithNut

PCC = Pistol Caliber Carbine

And generally refers to semi-autos. I can see lumping the M1 Carbine in there, as it fits the role fairly well, though they are pretty pricey these days.

Lever guns aren't quite the same thing, and bolt actions definitely are not.

Yeah, I'm aware, but in this thread it seems to have morphed into Personal Caliber Carbine....

Besides, I have a couple AR Pistols that shoot the 5.56 cartridge... so there

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.............SmithNut

I like the idea of a bolt action pistol caliber carbine. More reloader friendly, easier to retrieve that brass.

Agree with Smithnut's posts.... OP never stated a purpose for the PPC.... could be a PDW , or a utility rifle around the ranch or farm, or a "fun gun" at the range.... the fact he want's wood tilts my thoughts toward the latter uses.

The Ruger 77/357 paired with a .357 revolver makes a nice "woods bumming" combo.

I'm also very fond of my Ruger American Ranch in .223...found some short 5rd mags for everyday use around the cabin. Got some 10rd Mec-gar mags for reaching out if the SHTF

My personal PCC for use as a PDW is a Beretta CX4 carbine...... all 21st century....

My utility/ behind the kitchen door PCC at the cabin is the Ruger 77/357 bolt gun...

I can't shoot my 30 cal 1944 Inland in Steel Challenge because of possible damage to the plates, even though it is a "pcc". Certainly can't shoot my new to me 44 mag Ruger, either. Both are about the same cost now, north of a grand. I have read that the newer versions of the M1 are of variably reliability. I load for both of mine, the M1 is just a sweet, handy, handsome rifle, and with the right mags, always reliable. Had a bad mag, and had to cut and tear it up to get it out of my M1 carbine. I have a lot of shooter friends with every sort of 9mm pcc at our competitors, lots of them have stoppages. Another friend has several pcc's, and keeps on in his truck in his "Bug Out Bag." My M1 is a "transitional" model, still the push button sight and no bayonet lug, and has the round bolt and adjustable sight. Paid $600 for it about a decade ago, was an un-shot CMP gun. 20 and 30 round mags are available for the 30, my Ruger will take I think 3 or 4 in the gun. Just good choices, but neither is all that cheap nowadays. SF VET

just the perfect low-recoil, high capacity, wood stocked PCC. If you reload, really inexpensive to shoot, too. Cost about the same as a semi-custom 9mm PCC from the more expensive brands. But for a non-competition "PCC", they are superb, and handsome rifles, too.

here.... SF VET

Not to be pedantic, but the OP asked about PCCs. "PCC" has a definition, just like "revolver" or "lever action". If someone asks about information on a pickup truck, I don't usually respond with talk about a minivan. Both can be used for hauling stuff, but it's not what they asked about.

I guess if the OP ever comes back to the thread, he can tell us if he was just asking about "handy carbines".