Hi,
I have a M97 Riot gun 12 ga, 20 , cyl bore, that was made in the 40's. She story is, I was in a LGS in the mid 70's, and an old man came in to sell this gun. He did, and I bought it right up. H said it was refinished by Winchester in the late 60's. The wood was was not refinished, and has a few slight character marks. There is a slight dent in the feed tube that does not impede the feeding of shells, and is ever so slight.

I am thinking of selling this. No rust, pits or scratches. I have fired it, but it has been sitting in my safe for over 40 years unused. I know there are a lot of cut off guns out there, but this is a true riot model.

Any idea on value?
Thanks

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I love 97's! That is a nice short shotgun. True Riot guns were not on take down frames. (some war-time guns were factory fitted with heat shield and bayonet lug and shipped for civilian guards) Does the barrel match the stamped choke mark?

Ivan

Not sure what your last sentence means. Are you asking me if I have checked the choke by gauge to see that it is a straight tube from the forcing cone to the muzzle? If so, no I have not. verified the CYL barrel stamp

Pete,
I'm going to politely disagree with you about the wood. The butt stock appears to have been refinished. Factory Winchester walnut on standard guns will have a natural "dimpling" in the grain of the wood.
Stocks were divided into three main categories-straight grain, deluxe (which had sub-categories) and straight grain that would qualify for "extra finish". The extra finish wood was straight grain wood that had a little character but did not qualify as deluxe. This wood would have been sanded extra to give it the smooth finish and then the varnish or oil. Extra finish stocks were reserved for firearms with special order features that were not deluxe models.
The standard model 97 riot gun would not have been stocked from the factory with extra finish wood. The smoothness of your stock indicates a mild sanding and refinish. This extra sanding is what erases the "dimpling" in the grain and brings out the vertical lines that your stock has.
Its very nice wood, but like the bluing, I believe it has been reworked.
...but I'm saying this based on one picture and I've been wrong before...just ask my wife...

Steve

As far as value, I would look up recent sales for guns in similar condition.

Steve, I will look closer, but I really do not think it was redone. However I see your point and it is well taken.

I could not find any recent auctions

TX

I did a quick search of completed items on GB and found the following sale prices for original guns: $1775, $1825, $2036, $2200, and $3375. These appeared to be original condition-some issues. The $3375 sale was a 1920's gun and didn't look any nicer than the gun's around $2K.

The old rule of thumb on a refinished gun is 50% of the value of an original gun in like condition. This, of course, depends on the quality of the refinish/restoration and how badly someone else wants it. I've seen quality restorations bring much more.

The original trench guns with the heat shield, bayonet lug, and military markings obviously bring more.

The riot guns were utilitarian, not for show. There are some riot and trench guns for sale on GB and GI. If you look at them, you'll see the difference in the grain structure of the butt stock that make's me think yours has been enhanced.

I'm not knowledgeable about 97's other than I have a takedown model made around 1917. The serial numbers on both barrels match the receiver so it came from the factory with two barrels. Mine has a 20" cylinder barrel. Obviously not a riot gun because it's a take down. I think it's a special order gun. The stock has not been messed with except the pad was replaced by me. I know the history of the gun. The original butt pad had disintegrated. Butt plate on yours indicates it's a lower grade riot model, but that stock looks odd. Especially aft of the grip. Could be that it's how they came in the later years, no idea. Go on line and get the year it was built.

A picture might give you an idea of an original stock configuration and what it might look like after being around for over 100 years. The gunsmith I had clean it up and check it over wanted to re-blue it. I told him it was a family gun that my dad used in the 50-60's and I wanted it left as it was. I had no interest in selling it.

Hope this helps to set a price on yours. I have no idea what mine is worth. Probably not much in that condition.

Nothing unusual about a gunsmith restoring and old piece to what they think looks pleasing to the eye and in general that's a nice looking 97. If I were a CAS hombre I'd lay down $500 for it if it ran. Parts are like hens teeth and there's a million in a 97.

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Thanks for the research. I guess I will have to pull it out and study it a bit more. Especially the stock. As for a date, I looked it up once, and just cannot remember. Something wants to make me say 1942-43

I’m not sure that would be classified as a riot gun. While it is choked cylinder bore, it also has a solid rib. That’s a pretty unusual combination. The refinish looks pretty nice, but there’s no way to verify if Winchester actually did it.

How long is the barrel? The best way to check it is to drop a tape measure or rod down the barrel and measure from the bolt face to the muzzle.

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You asked for a value, maybe this will help you. I bought a Win. 97 12 gauge in 2017 for my brother. He totally stripped it, cleaned it, replaced the bushing to tighten the barrel to the receiver…then cut the barrel and reset the bead. Here are a few photos of his.

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Part number 11, the adjusting sleeve, is what was replaced to tighten up the receiver.

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Sticking a tape down the bbl to the bolt, the bbl measures 20.5".

I am not sure what you mean by a solid rib. There is no rib on the barrel. Smooth and round.

Win 97 Riot & Trench guns are the Rip Van Winkles of sleepers. When I was a kid they were dirt cheap. Nobody wanted them. I put rifle sights on several Riot models and stripped unnecessary hardware off Trench models.
Now guys are wanting to build look alike Trench guns out of aftermarket
accessories. 97s of all kinds are bringing higher dollar than M12s, per same condition. The Cowboy stuff has brought it back. The demand was of such that Chinese copies are made. The cost of the Chinese junk has run up the price of original Win 1897s. A lot of them are still being whacked to Riot size.

The serial number of this gun is 8811316 which I believe it would be 1941. Possibly 1940. There is an E above the serial number, and both the bbl and receiver have the same serial number.

I am still looking for some idea of value beyond the GB information

TX

I don't see a rib either. I don't think I've ever seen a 97 with a barrel rib. I can't find anything that mentions a 97 being available from the factory with a rib.

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I have looked it over closely, and I do not believe the wood was redone, or some of the slight character marks would have been sanded out I believe. I could be wrong though. i believe I heard the old man that brought in in for sale said just the metal was factory redone, but it is so many years ago. i cannot be sure

I can’t put value on it. From pictures it looks like wood has been refinished to me. Just that fact alone causes major price difference.

Maybe tomorrow i can take a couple wood pictures close up

If you want to get a maximum price out of that non-original 97 I would suggest trying to sell it to a SASS competitor. Bring it to Georgia with you when you move. “Rolan Kraps” on the sister forum is involved with SASS at Cherokee Gun Club in Gainesville; he might could be of help re-homing a vintage Winchester.

I think you can offer it up for sale on SASS wire if you're a member.

That's where your market will be.

There was one FS over there not long ago. I'll send you a PM.

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see post below. I re-posted instead of editing.

Winchester 97,
12 gauge, non take down 20 inch cyl. bore.
Couldn't care less if it's original,

it's gorgeous, and doubt if it could be improved
on for a loaded house gun.

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I believe you have an extra digit in your serial number posted above. The 800K range would be correct for a commercial riot gun.
The commercial riot guns were made with takedown frames beginning in 1935 so that is correct.
The top of the frame has what looks to be a matte finish on top of the beginnings of a rib. Riot guns were smooth on top of the frame.
I was looking at the matte/rib on the frame earlier and wondering if the barrel had been swapped, but if the serial numbers match...? I had also wondered if this was a cut down barrel, but the barrel would have the rib also, unless it was originally vented and subsequently removed.
If the barrel and frame serial numbers match, it could be that Winchester used a leftover frame to build this shotgun. Since this was not a military version, it did not have to meet military specs. I'm personally skeptical about this, but it being a wartime gun and not for the military, I guess anything is possible. We've all seen parts clean-up and transition guns from Winchester, Marlin, S&W, etc.
That's the problem with a refinished gun, its hard to tell what was done prior to the re-blue.
As far as value? I would need more pics showing detail of the wood and the re-blue. How heavy was it buffed, barrel address and markings, etc.

Some wood pics. One not so good, sorry

From the pics, I see Marks that would have been sanded out during refinishing, I might imagine

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I guess the lighting and my eyes were playing tricks on me. I looked at the photos closely and was sure it had a solid rib.



Never mind….

I’ll have to check my book on barrel lengths.

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On the left side of the barrel just ahead of the frame will have markings to indicate what the choke is. If it says CYL then it is probably the original length. The ability to tighten the barrel assembly to the frame is from a threaded bushing that can be adjusted. Once all the adjustment is used up you can have another bushing installed.

I fell into this 1930's solid frame Win 97 factory riot about 10 years ago after I was convinced I would never find one in my price comfort zone. The story is that I brought two guns I did not like to my local FFL, and knowing I liked Winchesters he brought out from the back a first year fine condition Winchester 88 in .308 Win. I had to kick in $200, but it seemed a good deal. Fitted it with a Leupold 2-7, but the gun kicked so hard I brought it right away to a small gun show the next week hoping to salvage some of what I had in the gun and the scope. A dealer with a table at the show offered me the below Winchester 97 solid frame factory 12 gauge riot in an even trade and it has ever since been one of my keepers:









With a modern Mossberg 500:

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Refinished or not, keep in mind that Chinese copy '97s are pushing $1000 - especially with cowboy action shooters.

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I did have an extra digit serial is 881316 on BBL and receiver. I tried to take a picture, but did not get the 88 part of the serial #. The barrel markings are great and really show no buffing

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