I took my Pedersoli Colt Lightning Carbine out to the range yesterday. It is a .45 Colt with a 16 inch barrel. I took a couple of different reloads with me. One was a 200 grain RN cast lead with 4.7 grains of Bullseye and the other was a 250 grain RN cast lead with 6.0 grains of Red Dot. The Red Dot shot the best group and the Bullseye was like a shotgun. My question is what are others using?

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I run 300 grain Hornady XTPs on top of twenty grains of Winchester 296 for a hunting load. Accuracy is very good, and it will put a Whitetail down like nobody's business. Not recommended for some guns. Notably Colt or S&W handguns.

For old west guns I use either:

5.6 gr. of Trailboss (light load)

or

30 gr. of Swiss or Goex 2F black powder (heavy).

Both work great under a 260 gr. Accurate Molds RNFP, with a "big lube" design. I use SPG and 20-1 lead/tin mix and there's no fouling and great accuracy.

For a medium to heavier smokeless load, substitute 8 gr. of Unique.

My cowboy load for SASS matches was 4.5 grains of Bullseye for both revolver (Ruger) and carbine (Marlin). The bullet was a cast 250 grain RNFP that we bought from a commercial caster in the Melbourne area. The longest range we shot at in regular matches was 70 yards.

I bought a new Winchester 94 AE Trapper 16" .45 Colt carbine about thirty years ago. I've pretty much lost interest in the cartridge and seldom shoot this gun anymore, but for years used the Lyman #454424 260 grain SWC cast of wheeelweight alloy sized to .454". I used either 8.5 grs. Unique or 11 gr. HS-6. Quite accurate with either load and the bore doesn't lead.

I'd have to check my notes to be sure, but I think muzzle velocity with these loads was around 1100 fps. I've tried a number of lighter cast bullets. None shot with any degree of accuracy when compared with the heavy Lyman design.

All 6 handguns and all 4 rifles/carbines get the same SASS load: Mixed brass, WLP, RNFP lead 200 to 230 grain, WW231 6.7 gr. Approx. 800 fps from 4" revolver. From 5 to 35 yards never misses a 4" round plate! I used to use a 185 gr LSWC/HP over same load closer to 900 fps.

Ivan

Just as a matter of interest to some, my .45 Colt Trapper carbine was sighted in to hit app. 2" high at fifty yards. At 100 yards, bullet drop was around 5" as I recall. Probably not much flatter shooting than a .45 Colt handgun.

For the obvious question - What is the Pressure cababilities of a Pedersoli Lighting replica ?

That’s my question as well. I have a Model 1892 as well as a Rossi 92 in .45 Colt and they are exceptionally strong actions. The 1892 is a downsized version of the 1886 and making it smaller made it even stronger. The Rossi 92 is a modernized version of the 1892 and it’s hosted the .454 Casull that runs at 65,000 psi with the same case head area and twice the bolt thrust as even a hot 32,000 psi loaded .45 Colt.

I suspect the Lightning isn’t designed for anywhere near the same pressures.

My Henry 18" lever gun seems to like the 250 gr. WC over 5.6 gr of Titegroup powder. I shoot some of the same bullet with 5 gr. of Clay's that does about as well. Just slow steel thumpers for me.

I've only recently been back to shooting and reloading the 45 Colt.
I've been using GreenDot with the best results.
230gr LSWC , I can't recall the actual load for the GD,,it's right out of a Lyman manual though.
Great accuracy, nice sharp report and clean burning.

I had tried RedDot at first and for some reason got poor accuracy, reports were not consistant.
Same bullet, primer, cases.

I've got lots of different powders to try if this goes south for some reason. But it looks good so far. Just a range toy but turns in some great groups in a Ruger.

I have a Rossi 92 20” carbine in .45 Colt and a 1892 20” takedown rifle in .45 Colt.

I’ve shot 250 gr XTPs on top of a max .45 Colt “+P” load published in Rifle magazine issue 199, back around 2002.

It produces 1900 fps at 2000 ft pounds of energy. With a 150 yard zero the mid range trajectory is 3 3/4” at 85 yards and it’s 4 1/2” low at 200 yards where it still has about 1120 fps and 700 ft pounds of energy. The downside is the recoil is a bit fierce as the 20” carbine is fairly light at 6 pounds 3 oz.

The recoil numbers:

Recoil Velocity: 14.0 ft/s
Recoil Energy: 18.7 ft•lbs
Recoil Impulse: 2.7 lb•s

That’s a bit worse than a 7.5 pound featherweight .30-06, before you consider the skinny, curved carbine butt plate.

Recoil Velocity: 12.8 ft/s
Recoil Energy: 19.0 ft•lbs
Recoil Impulse: 3.0 lb•s


Consequently I reserve that load for hunting. It delivers energy numbers nearly identical to the 150 gr .30-30 at 150 and 200 yards, but with about 400 ft pounds more at the muzzle, more momentum, and a lot more frontal area.

The .30-30 however generates a lot less recoil in the slightly heavier 7 pound Model 94:

Recoil Velocity: 10.1 ft/s
Recoil Energy: 11.1 ft•lbs
Recoil Impulse: 2.2 lb•s

——-

My usual general purpose load is a 250 gr XTP on top of a Hornady max load of 2400. It’s a 1500 fps load in a 20” Model 92. It develops 1272 ft pounds at the muzzle and with a 135 yard zero it’s 4.5” high at 75 yards and 5” low at 160 yards where it still has 1045 fps and 600 ft pounds.

The recoil numbers are much better and are on par with the 150 gr .30-30 in a Model 94 carbine:

Recoil Velocity: 10.9 ft/s
Recoil Energy: 11.5 ft•lbs
Recoil Impulse: 2.1 lb•s

——-

My plinking load is a 255 cast or plated bullet at 1300 fps. Zeroed for 100 yards it is 3” high at 60 yards and 3” low at 120 yards. Energy doesn’t really matter but it’s still 620 ft pounds at 100 yards. Recoil is not bad:

Recoil Velocity: 8.6 ft/s
Recoil Energy: 7.1 ft•lbs
Recoil Impulse: 1.7 lb•s

The recoil is fairly close to a .357 Mag 158 gr bullet at 1820 fps in a Model 92:

Recoil Velocity: 7.9 ft/s
Recoil Energy: 6.3 ft•lbs
Recoil Impulse: 1.6 lb•s

My standard load for my 45lc's both pistols and rifles is my cast 250 gr SWC pushed by 8.5 grs. of Unique. Rifles are a 16" Winchester 94 trapper with Redfield peep sight(anything within 100 yds is going to get a bullet hole in it) and a Navy Arms 92 with 24" octagon barrel.
After 20 years of reloading I started keeping count off all cartridges and shells that I reloaded. So since 1992 I've loaded 15,399 45LC rounds.

__________________
S&W Accumulator

[QUOTE=Mike, SC Hunter;141477359
After 20 years of reloading I started keeping count off all cartridges and shells that I reloaded. So since 1992 I've loaded 15,399 45LC rounds.[/QUOTE]

I bet you could have armed most of the West with those numbers!

__________________
Possum—The other white meat!

I looked at the owners manual and no where can I find where there is a limitation on the ammo.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Most manufacturers do for obvious reasons. But most modern loading manuals have plenty of data on this. If you look a little closer, I would be very surprised if there was not some kind of ammunition warning in the literature that came with the gun.

The Lightning action is not as strong as a 92 or 94 action, and I don't think it would be any stronger than a '66 or '73 action. For this reason, I would not shoot any load through a Lightning that I wouldn't put through a Colt SAA or a Win. '73. My favorite load for my '73 Winberti is a 250 gr. Xtreme plated flat nose over 7.0 grains of Win. 231. This load puts them all touching at 50 yds., burns clean and my Uberti Artillery model P SAA likes it as well.

I don't think I'd run "Ruger Only" .45 loads thru the Lightning either.

My main range load with the 16" Rossi 92 was an HSM plated 250 grain Flat Point over 8.5 grains of Universal.
The HSM's are always in stock at any of the Sportsman's Warehouses around here, aren't much more than store bought cast, and are consistent in weight and thickness of plating.

Since the companion handgun was a Ruger Flattop Convertible (.45 Colt and .45 ACP cylinders) the 35K PSI loads can't be used.
My "Bear Load" had to be held to 21K as the Flattop isn't as strong as a large frame Blackhawk.
(See articles by Brian Pearce on "Tier II .45 Colt loads")
I used a 260 grain Speer Deep Curl with 12.0 grains of HS-6.
This gave 1050 in the 5 1/2" revolver, and a few hundred more out of the 16" Rossi.

If you are looking for a hunting load for the Lightning, consider a Tier II 21K max load, I have my doubts it could handle the 35K Ruger Only load.

__________________
U. S. Army Veteran

I am not worried about the strength of the lightning's action. I do not use "hunting" loads in this carbine. It is for use on the range punching paper. No war loads or bear loads, Have better rifles suited for that if necessary. Not looking to defend loved ones or home with the Lightning, but if it was all that was available would not feel undergunned.

I think this is a rifle to not be taken hunting. See the pictures.

Attached Images

	ColtLightning1.jpg (79.5 KB, 18 views)
	ColtLightning2.jpg (49.2 KB, 16 views)
	ColtLightning3.jpg (64.6 KB, 13 views)

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

So we told you.

This has been an interesting thread. The friends I know that shoot .45 Colt all either load them like .44 magnums, or shoot the softball lite loads in their Colt SAA’s of various vintages (on the very rare occasions they see the light of day). I would say the vast majority are of the “.44 magnum copy/Ruger camp.”

__________________
Possum—The other white meat!

Just got this from Pedersoli Customer Service:
Dear Sir,


The limit is the pressure set by the C.I.P for the .45LC caliber, which is 15954 P.S.I.

You can shoot factory made smokeless ammuntion not exceeding this pressure.


Best regards,

Customer service


DAVIDE PEDERSOLI & C.
Via Artigiani, 57
I-25063 GARDONE VALTROMPIA
(Brescia) Italy
ph. +39 030 8915000
fax +39 030 8911019
Davide Pedersoli | Reproduction and sale of historical muzzle-loading and breech-loading weapons.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Like I said, anything that you would use in your Colt SAA...

Well there's Your Answer !

Interestingly the CIP standard @ 15.9 K psi is a bit higher than the SAAMI 14.0 K psi . ( aka , about 13% higher than SAAMI .)

What does the OP seek for his Lightening ? I'm not a mindreader , but I would put forth that velocities of approximate " normal , Not Cowboy , Standard Velocities " , with decent accuracy from his rifle .

Rifle Leade dimensions are a different variable than revolver throats , OP will need to experement in his rifle .

Normal Standard NON- Cowboy = 850 +\- 25 fps from Revolver , maybe 1000- 1100 from rifle .

This is approx the performance of BP , which established the .45 Colt's reputation in the 187 3- 1940 era . ( If I didn't directly say so yet , am referring to 250/ 255 gr RN/FP Lead bullets . SWC of same weights @ same velocity is arguably More Better . but RN/FP feeds better in rifles .)

The reason I was asking was to be able to experiment with other loads that I thought was safe (I also check loads on the Quickload program). I have two revolvers in .45 Colt that I reload for, one is a S&W 25 and the other is a Colt Model 1909 U.S. Army (made in 1909). The S&W will take most any load you put in it that is reasonable. The load I use in the 1909 is what was required by the War Department in a deal with Colt. The War Department wanted a 250 grain bullet at 750 FPS. I find that my 1909 is regulated well with this load at 25 yards ( I use 5.6 grains of Bullseye with a 250 grain cast bullet). I would like to get a load that works well in both the 1909 and the carbine. Don't want to beat up expensive toys for the heck of it.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

For factory ammo, I shoot the Federal AE .45 Colt 225gr JSP out of my Miroku 1892 button mag carbine.

Ken Waters did a .45 Colt handloading article in HANDLOADER magazine specifically for the Winchester 16" Trapper 94 AE carbine not long after these guns became available thirty or so years ago. The article was reprinted in "Pet Loads". As usual with anything Ken Waters wrote, it's better than other such articles and quite detailed. I'll assume "Pet Loads" is still available through Wolfe Publishing Co.

Published load data comes in three basic flavors:

1) standard 14,000 psi SAAMI spec data;

2) 20,000 to 23,000 psi “+P” data (there’s no SAAMI standard for .45 Colt +P); and

3) 32,000 CUP (correlating to roughly 30,600 psi) T/C and Ruger Only data that approximates .44 Magnum performance.

——

Case life is a consideration as the .45 Colt was designed as a black powder round for the Colt SAA revolver.

Most black powder rounds intended for use in both revolvers and lever action rifles were bottlenecked and had a tapered case. examples include the .44-40, .38-40, .32-20, and .25-20.

The bottle neck allowed the case to do a better job of sealing the front of the case against the chamber quicker to reduce the flow of black powder gasses back into the chamber, and in the case of a lever action rifle, into the action.

The tapered body allowed for easier ejection as the case would come out of contact with the cylinder as soon the case was extracted even a little bit. That was a big plus in black powder fouled chambers.

The .45 Colt however was designed to pack the maximum possible powder charge into the case while minimizing cylinder diameter in the Colt SAA revolver. Since it used a rod ejector the rim only had to headspace the round so the rim on the original .45 Colt was small.

It was never designed to be used in a lever action rifle or carbine - and never was until after the end of the black powder era and the common use of smokeless powder in the .45 Colt. By that time it had also inherited a slightly larger rim.

That said, Colt was still concerned about ejection with heavily fouled cylinders and while the .45 Colt case walls are parallel, the .45 Colt chamber is tapered .007” from mouth to base. That means the case expands .007” at the base and around .035” near the middle of the case with every shot fired with a heavy load.

That means case life isn’t too bad at 14,000 psi pressures, but gets worse at 23,000 psi pressures and is quite short at 32,000 cup pressures. 5-6 reloads is all you are probably going to get with 30,000 psi loads before you start seeing spider cracks in the case walls.

For what it is worth, many of my SASS shooters using 45 Colt seem to use a 230 RN just like they use in the 1911's with 6 grains on Unique.

Can't give chronograph readings as I don't shoot 45 colts, I use the same load with my 44-40's and a 200 RNFP and it shoots VERY well for me!

Hope that helps......

Randy

I've found with standard pressure loads using the Lyman design #454424 260 gr. cast SWC, case life is incredible. I don't know how many times my Winchester .45 Colt brass has been loaded for carbine and revolver, but it's been quite a few. Case necks will eventually develop cracks, but this is some high mileage brass that appears to be just fine.

A problem with the 45LC is that so many guns(rilfles and pistols) have oversize chambers(except my FA mdl 97). Letting the case REALLY expand upon firing. This causes the 45LC case to be over worked in sizing. Usually they split at the the mouth first.........STILL, I shoots lots of "em".

__________________
S&W Accumulator

Broke out my copy of "Pet Loads" and read the 94 Trapper article It is very good However, I have a feeling that the 94's are much stronger than my Colt 1877 Lightning by Pedersoli. Due to the strength and the fact is a pricey toy, I am not inclined to stoke it to the max

I have tried a bunch of different loads in it over the last couple of weeks. I have settled on 6.0 grains of Bullseye with a 250 grain cast RNFP bullet. Using a 25 yard pistol target at 50 yards, if I do my part all rounds will stay in the 10 ring. Even when I screw up the rounds are in the black, until you really do something stupid.

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.