The mighty .41 rimfire Derringer

This range report encompasses a whopping 3 rounds, but it may be of interest to some.

I picked up this Remington .41 a while ago. Like many, the hinge was cracked, probably from enthusiastic opening and closing. At some point a back porch repair was accomplished.



I shoot all my guns, but I thought this one might stump me until a buddy sold me 12 of the Navy Arms rounds produced a few decades ago.

Today was the day. First the accuracy test. I figured I would miss my usual bullseye target so I bought this overly complicated one from the range. Its hard to see, but two rounds at 5 yards resulted in one hit to the left of John Garfield's gun and one just over his head. I can't blame the gun for this as I was more concerned about it blowing up, which it didn't.



I had read all the stories about .41 Derringer rounds not penetrating both sides of a coffee can, sticking out of a telephone pole, or pushing an apple the length of a bartop without punching through.

I let fly at this 2x6 from about a foot away.



Recoil was about like a .38 S&W round from a small revolver. The 130 grain bullet plowed through and kicked up stuff from the backstop.



It actually split the board. I was going to use a .380 ball round for comparison but I was afraid I'd split it completely. The .22 round is a cheapo 40 grain roundnose from a Beretta 948.

It will keel.



My takeaway? Don't try to catch this round with your teeth. There are lots of reasons not to carry this little gun, but I'm pretty sure the round would do the job.

I believe this was the round Teddy Roosevelt took to the chest, had it dressed, then delivered his speech to a crowd anyway.

ADDED: No - TR took a 38 to the chest.

biku324 said:

I believe this was the round Teddy Roosevelt took to the chest, had it dressed, then delivered his speech to a crowd anyway.

ADDED: No - TR took a 32 to the chest.

Click to expand...

And it went through his folded up speech and his eyeglasses case.

The bullet actually penetrated into his chest, and he carried it there to the grave.

I am glad you didn’t lose a hand or any fingers.

The full article
The Gun That Almost Killed Theodore Roosevelt - War Is Boring
All references describe the bullet as being a .38 or a .38 S&W.

sigp220.45 said:

This range report encompasses a whopping 3 rounds, but it may be of interest to some.

I picked up this Remington .41 a while ago. Like many, the hinge was cracked, probably from enthusiastic opening and closing. At some point a back porch repair was accomplished.

I shoot all my guns, but I thought this one might stump me until a buddy sold me 12 of the Navy Arms rounds produced a few decades ago.

Today was the day. First the accuracy test. I figured I would miss my usual bullseye target so I bought this overly complicated one from the range. Its hard to see, but two rounds at 5 yards resulted in one hit to the left of John Garfield's gun and one just over his head. I can't blame the gun for this as I was more concerned about it blowing up, which it didn't.

I had read all the stories about .41 Derringer rounds not penetrating both sides of a coffee can, sticking out of a telephone poll, or pushing an apple the length of a bartop without punching through.

I let fly at this 2x6 from about a foot away.

Recoil was about like a .38 S&W round from a small revolver. The 130 grain bullet plowed through and kicked up stuff from the backstop.

It actually split the board. I was going to use a .380 ball round for comparison but I was afraid I'd split it completely. The .22 round is a cheapo 40 grain roundnose from a Beretta 948.

My takeaway? Don't try to catch this round with your teeth. There are lots of reason not to carry this little gun, but I'm pretty sure the round would do the job.

Click to expand...

This thread and your report really "floats my boat!" This is something I have long wanted to do, acquire a Remington .41 derringer and do some sort of a shooting test.

When I was a kid, an uncle had one and some cartridges. He and my older cousins shot it at a cross tie fence post. The bullets bounced back. That would have been about 1968-69. I have no idea what sort of ammunition was used.

I've always thought the little pistols looked especially neato. When I was a young kid I had a toy Remington double derringer. We got in a way of playing "pirates" raiding in our galleon and the toy derringer was my "back-up" back when I didn't know a back-up was a tactical thing. I realize that there are some anachronisms in our pretend, but hey I also had a flintlock rifle that was nothing more than an unusually straigh oak stick about four feet long. Both "rifle" and derringer also figured in re-fighting the Alamo. Despite the odds we always won when we reenacted that.

You found a speed-strip for .41 rimfire?????

Cool report, thanks.

Nice, I had always wondered about those. I'm not about to sneer at any round, plenty of people have had their day ended by the lowliest of cartridges.

In the 1960s the Department I was with the officers furnished their own firearms. Therefore there were a lot of trading/swapping of firearms. I traded for a "Great Western" manufactured (west Germany) .38 spl. Derringer. Surprising at 25 yards I could keep both shots in the kill area of a B-29 target.

I think the oft-quoted stats of 425 feet per second and 52 foot pounds of energy are way low. This guy chrono-ed some of the Navy Arms rounds and they were 621 feet per second and 111 foot pounds of energy. Still not a magnum, but more than enough cause an immediately lethal wound.

GUNS Magazine Henry Deringer’s Pocket Pistol - GUNS Magazine

COTW (at least my edition) does not provide a MV for the .41 RF. In addition to the Remington Double Derringer, there were a few other palm-sized handguns chambered for it. It was probably adequate for its intended purpose of keeping some adversary at bay. Not many would want to risk taking a .41 bullet to the gut, even though it probably would not inflict an immediately fatal wound.

Most of the DDs I have seen had a broken hinge, I have seen a few with the hinge repaired by brazing.

The Remington-Elliot pistol was not a high-powered or extremely accurate weapon, but it served a purpose by sending a very clear message "GET OFF ME". At point-blank range, or across a poker table, the .41 Rimfire was not to be trifled with, and that is exactly what the pistol was designed for. Up close and personal, deliver the message, repeat once if necessary.

Vest pocket, trouser pocket, lady's purse, or simply carried in the palm of the hand while going about one's necessary business in questionable conditions. Pure shock and awe when applied under duress! A loud noise, a bright flash, the smell of gunpowder in your face, maybe some smoke or flame from your clothing, and the distinct feeling of being kicked in the ribs, a serious message to pay attention to rather than continuing on with your original plans for this particular victim.

.41 caliber attitude adjustment.

attention: OP

We derringer aficionados on the Forum thank you for your thread. Good to see some truth/evidence to help dispel some 'old wives' tales' that refuse to go away. Remember (from the 1960s) how the S&W Model 58 was not as strong as the target-sighted Model 57?

There are/have been numerous DD 'clones' chambered for modern rounds, but the designer of the original O/U gun seems to have gotten it right from the get-go. I gave up on one .38 Spl clone w/o firing it: trigger pull HAD to be in the area of 25-30 lbs! I am fond of the Davis .32ACP for its lightweight and caliber.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

DWalt said:

COTW (at least my edition) does not provide a MV for the .41 RF. In addition to the Remington Double Derringer, there were a few other palm-sized handguns chambered for it. It was probably adequate for its intended purpose of keeping some adversary at bay. Not many would want to risk taking a .41 bullet to the gut, even though it probably would not inflict an immediately fatal wound.

Click to expand...

There is an article in the February 1952 American Rifleman on "Potent Persuaders, The .41 Caliber Single-Shot Cartridge Derringers". The included table shows a list of these pistols.

It's been reported that Gen. Douglas MacArthur carried one of these during his exit from the Philippines During WWII.

I guess he wasn't much of a gun guy... but then he probably had a good security detail.

John

The stippling around the entrance hole on that 2x6 is interesting. You don't see that with the .22. Looks like a lot of unburned stuff is leaving that barrel.

PALADIN85020 said:

It's been reported that Gen. Douglas MacArthur carried one of these during his exit from the Philippines During WWII.

I guess he wasn't much of a gun guy... but then he probably had a good security detail.

John

Click to expand...

Unlike Lt. Gen. Jonathan 'Skinny' Wainright or 17 Maj. and Brigadier Generals, who didn't have a ride out of town. Like 20,000 soldiers, sailors, Marines, and National Guardsman.

Not a fan.

Excellent!!! Love that report.

I have an antique Remington O/U .41 rimfire derringer that is chromed or nickel plated and is virtually pristine. I don't think it has ever been fired - I promise a picture soon! Plus, the guy who gave it to me, years ago, gave me a perfect specimen of a box of 50 rounds with all of the cartridges inside. I'll get that picture, too.

But I was never brave enough to shoot it so I'll live vicariously through the OP because I'm still not brave enough to shoot it.

We used to have side matches with derringers at cowboy action shooting events and I borrowed one a couple of times. Fun but................EEK!!!!!!!!! And the CAS crowd probably still has these side matches.

Book

I recommend you pick up a copy of this book.

Murph

I carried a High Standard .22 Mag derringer as my "Onion Field" gun. If I had worked 100 (or even 50) years earlier this would have filled the bill just as well.





7 yards, holding on the orange bull. First shot 12 o'clock cutting the 7 ring, second 9 o'clock in the 8. I'd call that minute of drygulcher accuracy.

If ammo wasn't $5-$6 per round it would be a lot of fun.