Glocks are good guns and they had the original polymer frame. Credit where credit is due. I would not mind if someone gave me a Glock 17, but I am not planning on buying one, 9mm is a crowded niche in my safe.
Beg to differ, but that is a fairly common misconception. The 9mm H&K VP 70 was the first pistol to use a polymer frame. This occurred in 1970. This one is mine, and it still works perfectly, accurately and reliably. Weighs less than a 1911 and holds 19 rounds full up with one in the chamber. Repeat strikes on a dud primer are possible - double action only. This is the semiauto "Z" version: the "M" variation fires either 3-round bursts or semiauto when mated to its selector-switch-equipped shoulder stock.
John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -
Last edited by PALADIN85020; 07-28-2022 at 12:29 PM.
i wonder if they modeled the glock 17 grip size on a similar pistol, which dates back all the way to the 1911? because i feel like the grip size of guns in the past were intentionally made slightly bigger than the average hand so that a slight bit of room was left over for margin of error perhaps? i don't know.
all i know is that when i grip a full size and a compact there's real no appreciable difference in purchase, so it seems that extra grip length isn't really needed. other than for capacity's sake i suppose, but 15 rounds plus 2 rounds is hardly worth it imho
Beg to differ, but that is a fairly common misconception. The 9mm H&K VP 70 was the first pistol to use a polymer frame. This occurred in 1970. This one is mine, and it still works perfectly and reliably. Weighs less than a 1911 and holds 19 rounds full up with one in the chamber. Repeat strikes on a dud primer are possible - double action only. This is the semiauto "Z" version: the "M" variation fired either 3-round bursts or semiauto when mated to its selector-switch-equipped shoulder stock.
John
yeah that's the volkspistol, cheap mass production pistol meant for civil defense. it was actually a cool idea. it'd be like the us government giving every citizen a glock lol
Chuck Taylor, who was a prominent writer and firearms trainer back in the day, got one of the earlier G17's and used it in his classes for years. He deliberately mistreated it, the idea being to see just how durable and reliable it might really be. He shot it, his students shot it, everyone he knew shot it, and he kept track of every round. He cleaned it every 10,000 rounds whether it needed it or not. He experienced his first malfunction at around 37,000 rounds when a magazine spring started to go soft. He replaced all his mag springs and kept at it. He updated the round count every couple of years, still cleaning at 10,000 round intervals. Last I heard, the gun was over 300,000 rounds and still perking along.
A Glock is not art or fine workmanship. No one can pretend it is and keep a straight face. If that's what you want get a Registered Magnum or an old Colt Single Action that could tell lots of stories. If the Glock doesn't fit you, and it doesn't fit all, then find something else that does. Handguns have been evolving for hundreds of years and they will continue to do so. Glocks are just one of the more recent steps in the process and, as such, they are as reliable as anything made by man, affordable, light, easily repaired and adequately accurate. They are safe for the user if properly handled and they have adequate power and capacity. Others have followed Glock but I don't think any have done better. Eventually, something newer and better will come along, and I have no doubt that some will decry the new "death ray" handguns as ugly or "lacking soul" or something else. If the mission of the handgun is to protect the user and his/her loved ones then reliable function must come first. I love my Smith revolvers and Colt SAA's and 1911's and shoot them whenever I can. But for the primary mission, I'll use one of my Glocks until something better comes along.
The first Glocks made it into the Austrian military’s hands in 1982. They would be on shelves here in the US until sometime in ‘86. The first commercial shipment of Glock 17s came into the port of Miami in Jan 1986 IIRC and most of those went to LE officers/agencies. I know I’m kinda splitting hairs but Glocks would be be “plentiful” on US shelves really until 1987ish.
Unsure what exactly qualifies as a “wonder 9,” and I love the Beretta 92 but would the Browning HP not fall into that category as well?
Good point, then it's only 35 years ago
As I understand it Wonder Nine refers to semi-automatic pistols chambered in 9×19mm Parabellum and has a staggered column magazine introduced in the time from roughly from the mid-1970's to around 1990. The term was coined by firearms author Robert Shimek, and became popular in American gun rags during the 1980s
Seems I've read that the HP was not included because it was a single action. I'm sure this is all subjective though.
Wonder nine had a magazine Capacity of 14 or more. The Barreta is what caught the public’s eye because of Lethal Weapon then Die Hard. Maiami Vice and the Bren Ten is what caught the attention of LE agencies who opted for the Smith line of 9mm when switching to semi automatic
Glocks have clean lines and are better looking than most of the other polymer guns on the market in my opinion. They are still the best of the bunch. Everything you need and nothing you don't.
They work....it's that simple....
If I was still making felony stops and runnin
arrest warrants I'd go with the G19.
We have all witnessed newscasts the last 3-4 years and
understand these Mopes now travel and commit crimes
in groups.
Shot placement is still king regardless of what you decide to pack.
2) Wife #1 (the actual legal buyer at the time, me being furrin) wanted a Steyr M9.
I still have the Steyr, and I think it is superior to the Glock, better trigger, better grip shape, manual safety.
I don't own a 1911 because I did my research and went with CZ and S&W for my mass market metal pistols. I have also become interested in pistols with non-Browning operating systems.
Back about 1986, a salesman from Gulf States Distributors came to my PD and bought a variety of firearms for the officers to shoot. I fired the Beretta 92, the Glock 17 and the Ruger XGI. For those not familiar with the XGI, it was a sporter weight .308 with a box magazine, kind of like big Mini 14. Unfortunately, it never came on the market due to Ruger not being able to get it reliable with types of .308 Winchester/7.62x51 ammo.
The Beretta was too big for my hand and I liked the Glock 17 much better. Later on, the Glock distributor came to the police department and offered the officers the opportunity to buy 17s or 19s at a discount. I bought a 19, because it fit my hand better than the 17.
My PD didn't issue sidearms, requiring each officer to buy his/her own. Other than being inexpensive, the Glocks were light. When you hang all the gear that's required on a Sam Browne belt, a light handgun, especially one that holds a lot of ammo, is a plus.
I never carried my Glock 19 as my primary sidearm. I carried either a .45 1911 or a .44 Special/.45 ACP/.45 Colt revolver. My Glock was my ankle gun, until I swapped it for a divorce.
Oh, and despite what Duckford thinks, polymer framed handguns aren't trash.
Since this has not been brought up yet, I feel compelled to point out that Glock offers maritime spring cups which enable one to reliably fire their Glock handgun under water.
they're glock like in their function and reliability,but beyond that, they looks so much better than glocks. better grip angle too
“You can fool all of the people some of time; you can fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time.” - Abraham Lincoln
My son and I shoot pistol matches a couple of times a month. I shoot a Glock; he shoots an M&P.
We have never had a single argument (or even a discussion) over which is “better.” We sure as hell never talked about which gun was prettier. They’re polymer semi-autos, which means they’re both uglier than a mud fence.
And I have *never* understood the “grip angle” thing. Like many folks who are in the autumn or winter of our lives I’ve shot a wide variety of handguns in my day, and I can honestly say I’ve never had an issue with the grip angle of any of them. Whenever I see it mentioned I have to assume someone has been spending too much time reading opinions on the Internet.
Glocks are simple, reliable, passably accurate and the biggest name in the plastic, striker fired world. Parts are usually plentiful and even in times of scarcity, the most likely to be back in stock soonest. Being that they're nothing but a tool, why not buy the tool that's most likely to be working when you need it?
Excellent points...and there is one other advantage Glock enjoys over other firearms...
If you are involved in a defensive shooting, I suspect you will lose custody of your pistol for at least a little while, while the police ensure it isn't stolen, or "modified" in some exotic or illegal way. Which would you rather have sitting in an evidence room somewhere...a Glock?...or your Model 65, your Les Baer 1911, your Colt Wiley Clapp Commander...your cherry High Power?
And I have *never* understood the “grip angle” thing. Like many folks who are in the autumn or winter of our lives I’ve shot a wide variety of handguns in my day, and I can honestly say I’ve never had an issue with the grip angle of any of them. Whenever I see it mentioned I have to assume someone has been spending too much time reading opinions on the Internet.
I'm so glad to see somebody say this. I feel the same way, but usually just keep quite. I don't ever remember picking up a handgun and thinking the grip angle was wrong. I've thought some grips were big or small for my hands, but never the wrong angle.
Excellent points...and there is one other advantage Glock enjoys over other firearms...
If you are involved in a defensive shooting, I suspect you will lose custody of your pistol for at least a little while, while the police ensure it isn't stolen, or "modified" in some exotic or illegal way. Which would you rather have sitting in an evidence room somewhere...a Glock?...or your Model 65, your Les Baer 1911, your Colt Wiley Clapp Commander...your cherry High Power?
I had one sit in an evidence room for nearly four years before I got it back.
Hi. My name is Ray. I'm a gun snob. I have been a gun snob for decades, and I will probably die as a gun snob. I readily admit that I will never accept plastic when I can have blued steel. The thought of my friends seeing me with Tupperware outside the kitchen is unbearable to me.
I feel better now. Thank you all for allowing me to get this off my chest.
I’ve never understood the “carry gun taken into evidence” discussion either.
I base the gun I carry on three criteria: is it reliable, can I shoot it accurately, and can I carry it conveniently?
How “nice” the gun or its monetary value don’t figure into the picture. Not even a little bit. If I am in a defensive shooting and live to tell the tale that gun will have wholly and completely justified its purchase, even if it is destined to moulder away in an evidence room for the rest of my days. Would it be nice to get it back? Absolutely. But will I grieve over it if I don’t get it back? Absolutely not.
I feel confident that most of us don’t carry our most expensive gun day-to-day, but I suspect this is because our priciest gun isn’t the best gun for the task.
I'm so glad to see somebody say this. I feel the same way, but usually just keep quite. I don't ever remember picking up a handgun and thinking the grip angle was wrong. I've thought some grips were big or small for my hands, but never the wrong angle.
the glock's grip angle is not conducive to pointing. when i point a gun it's a similar motion to when i point at something, with 1911 style grips like the m&p, the sights are almost always on. with glocks, the sights are not consistent. this might change if i used glocks regularly,but i don't. the m&p looks too good and performs too good to trade it in for and uglier gun that doesn't point correctly in my hand
I’ve never understood the “carry gun taken into evidence” discussion either.
I base the gun I carry on three criteria: is it reliable, can I shoot it accurately, and can I carry it conveniently?
How “nice” the gun or its monetary value don’t figure into the picture. Not even a little bit. If I am in a defensive shooting and live to tell the tale that gun will have wholly and completely justified its purchase, even if it is destined to moulder away in an evidence room for the rest of my days. Would it be nice to get it back? Absolutely. But will I grieve over it if I don’t get it back? Absolutely not.
I feel confident that most of us don’t carry our most expensive gun day-to-day, but I suspect this is because our priciest gun isn’t the best gun for the task.
With respect...you wrote: "I base the gun I carry on three criteria: is it reliable, can I shoot it accurately, and can I carry it conveniently?" I agree wholeheartedly, but...
Most of us, I suspect, have several, or even many, guns that meet all those criteria. Why risk damaging or losing an expensive or collectible pistol when you can buy an inexpensive Glock that will be reliable, accurate, and easy to carry...and you won't miss if you lose custody of it for an extended period?
Glocks function reliably, are priced decently, and certainly have a distinctive (albeit not especially pretty) look. I don't care for polymer framed pistols in general, and the 1911 grip fits my hand a hell of a lot better, but Glocks deserve the praise they've attained IMO. And I'm much happier that the Gen5 models have finally gotten rid of the finger grooves. The 43X I held in a shop recently felt surprisingly good.
I've had Glocks. Past tense. Models 17, 21, 19, 21SF.
They were good, functional guns. I can't say anything bad about their function or reliability.
But I just never really got into them. Just not my cuppa.
For those who like them, more power to you. Just not my thing.
And it's not just Glock. I only own 2 polymer frame pistols now. Both Walthers. A P99AS and a CCP M2 +.
The P99AS is the only striker fired pistol that has a 2nd shot capability without racking back the slide to my knowledge.
And to show the dominance of Glock in the pistol world, the "plus" in the CCP M2 + is that it will accept any Glock OEM or aftermarket sights on its slide.
Even Walther realized that Glock is the 800lb gorilla in the room and stopped making their sights proprietary on the CCP M2 +. This might become my car gun. I haven't shot it enough with JHP ammo to see how it runs.
The Walther PDPs also take Glock sights. Smart move on Walther's part as there were tons of aftermarket sights available for the PDP on the day it was released.
We can talk about HK's first use of a polymer frame and striked-fired handguns have been around for a long time but Glock combined many design elements into an affordable and reliable package that has been widely copied since its introduction.
I'm not crazy about Glocks. They are about as exciting as a Bic pen. But credit where credit is due.
Glock pistols changed the industry and have heavily influenced many subsequent pistol designs.
Well, that's sorta the reason for the maritime cups. The actual reason is so that water drains more quickly from the striker channel upon emerging from the water, helping to enable the pistol to be immediately ready to fire. I don't know of anyone who would want to be under water right next to a firearm being fired (think mini depth charge), and the round wouldn't travel very far any way, like three-four feet. There's a MythBuster out there somewhere which has them firing a .50 into a pool, and the bullet never reaches the target a few feet below the surface. I'm not gonna link it because in the short clip I watched there's some profanity, but it's easy to find . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColbyBruce
Since this has not been brought up yet, I feel compelled to point out that Glock offers maritime spring cups which enable one to reliably fire their Glock handgun under water.
Public Service Announcement. Change your password, delete your history and cookies, run your virus and malware programs, and reboot, because you've either been hacked now, or in the past year.
Just on the first page of your recent comments, you own a 23 and a 42, and a 32 is high on your wish list . . .
There is a lot of blame to go to around for the current selection of guns today. And nobody wants to take responsibility for their part. Glocks are good, reliable guns. Anyone trying to say otherwise are full of it. They didn't invent polymer pistols or striker fired guns but they successfully pushed them better than anyone else. Their PR department is still their best feature. All the other manufacturers jumped on the bandwagon and that helped the demise of blued steel and wood. There are certainly other brands that do something better than Glock.
But Glock does most everything OK and thats why they are still a big name. 9mm fan boys have had as big an impact on steel gun demise too, it's what pushes the gun world these days it seems. All you guys who refuse to buy any new Revolvers because "the new ones are junk" helped that demise as well. Laziness has pushed it also. Most people don't want to carry a 40 Oz Smith or all metal Sig these days, they want some 12 Oz featherweight with 30 rounds that fits in a coin pocket. Cheapness helped it as well. Nobody can understand that Revolvers and all steel guns cost more to produce at a high level than plastic. And they don't want to pay two or three or four times the cost for a non-plastic gun that will be bumped around and sweated on everyday that nobody else should even know you are carrying and that in all likelihood you'll never have to actually use in a realworld scenario. Sales are what drives production. So if you bought plastic for its weight, or cost. If you are a 9mm fan boy. If you refuse to buy anything but old S&W wheel guns. Congratulations, you made your own choice, which we all should without having to explain ourselves, but you own a piece of the blame for what we have available today too...
does anyone else feel this way? we have so many modern polymer 9mm options now that are just as reliable, and look 100x better, with more options, and better equality sights out of the box.
why is glock still so popular? i just don't get it. are people just going out and blindly buying glocks based on brand popularity?
it's like people are afraid and lack the curiosity to see what else is out there. m&p 2.0 3.6inch compact absolutely destroys glock 19 and glock 26
Plastic pistols don't interest me in the least, but I recognize them as good tools for certain jobs.
I have 3 Glocks and a load of magazines. Glocks work superbly well. I see no reason to go out and buy other plastic guns just because they have a little different grip or slightly different this or that. I'm down the path with the originator of the genre, with a bunch of magazines.
I'll use them to carry, compete, and sweat on, and continue to buy other classic firearms that I'm much more interested in.
So in short, I just don't think about it much. I like Glocks for what they are but have no interest in changing or even buying more.
I don't own or have ever owned any Glock pistol, so I've got no dog in this fight.
From everything I've able to learn about Glock company they make an excellent tool, that does every thing it needs to do. If I were to buy one, it would be considered a disposable Car gun; that I hope would never bee used.
when we look at the dynamics of firefights(i've examined footage and aftermath of thousands of shootings) it's clear that under stress, large capacity, and fast reloads are an absolute boon. i can't even remember how many times i've seen guys pinned down and eventually shot or killed because their revolver ammo ran out and the bad guy was still up(it's a lot harder to score hits in the heat of combat), or they were fumbling with the reload and got rushed. the modern gun fight is purely the arena of the semi autos.
Probably not too many. Personally, I think Gaston did it just to tick you off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by m&p2.0fdethumbsafety
why is glock still so popular?
Because they're objectively well made, reliable guns that aren't ridiculously expensive and have a bunch of aftermarket support and if you lose one to the evidence locker, so what? it's a Glock, there are a million more just like it.
when we look at the dynamics of firefights(i've examined footage and aftermath of thousands of shootings) it's clear that under stress, large capacity, and fast reloads are an absolute boon. i can't even remember how many times i've seen guys pinned down and eventually shot or killed because their revolver ammo ran out and the bad guy was still up(it's a lot harder to score hits in the heat of combat), or they were fumbling with the reload and got rushed. the modern gun fight is purely the arena of the semi autos.
when we look at the dynamics of firefights(i've examined footage and aftermath of thousands of shootings) it's clear that under stress, large capacity, and fast reloads are an absolute boon. i can't even remember how many times i've seen guys pinned down and eventually shot or killed because their revolver ammo ran out and the bad guy was still up(it's a lot harder to score hits in the heat of combat), or they were fumbling with the reload and got rushed. the modern gun fight is purely the arena of the semi autos.
I'm not crazy about Glocks. They are about as exciting as a Bic pen. But credit where credit is due.
That's pretty much where I stand. There are some Glocks that interest me, but they are not the mainstream pistols. The 17L, 24, 34 and 35 are on the list, but every time I get close to a cheap used one, somebody else with deeper pockets arrives and the price gets too close to market value for my tastes. Yes, I'm a cheap so-and-so.
Glocks are good guns and they had the original polymer frame. Credit where credit is due. I would not mind if someone gave me a Glock 17, but I am not planning on buying one, 9mm is a crowded niche in my safe.
Heckler & Koch's VP70 beat Glock out of the polymer gate by a decade.
It also beat Glock with an even more wretched trigger than the utter wretchedness that is the Glock trigger.
Whoops. I see I'm a little slow. Paladin beat me. Sorry Rick.
Last edited by bmcgilvray; 07-25-2022 at 05:05 PM.
OP did you used to be on GlockTalk and get banned? Asking as your constant references to FDE M&P 2.0 with thumb-safeties as well as your username seems vaguely familiar
Glocks are cheap, they are reliable and they are NOT made in China.
Personally I like my centerfire guns to have at least two pounds of steel in them but that is me. If polymer gets new folks buying, shooting, and carrying, what is not to like.
.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
Fun
Linear Mode
