The gun markets are full of surplus Bereta 85 BB model 380s at a fair price. What experience have you had with these little guns? I have always been into S&W N Frames and do not own a .380. What say you!
Bereta 85 Surplus
- Thread starter delta-419
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I prefer the versions in .32ACP but they are nice guns in either caliber.
I'd pick a Walther PPK or PPK/s over the Beretta, but if the price is right, you really can't go wrong.
Beretta makes quality stuff. I had a 92S Italian Police surplus that out shot the new US made M9 I had.
Beretta makes quality stuff. I had a 92S Italian Police surplus that out shot the new US made M9 I had.
LVSteve
Member
You can keep your blowback .380s. In my experience they all kick and flip as much as a 9mm of the same size with less "output" in terms of muzzle energy.
WARNING! MATH ALERT!
What really baffles me is that the Beretta 85 in .380 has the same recoil spring as the model 82 in .32. Hmm, .380 has 22% more bolt thrust at the same case pressure and uses bullets that weigh 35% more having about 22% more momentum once you account for the different muzzle velocities. So how does using the same spring make sense?
WARNING! MATH ALERT!
What really baffles me is that the Beretta 85 in .380 has the same recoil spring as the model 82 in .32. Hmm, .380 has 22% more bolt thrust at the same case pressure and uses bullets that weigh 35% more having about 22% more momentum once you account for the different muzzle velocities. So how does using the same spring make sense?
THE PILGRIM
Member
Who They?
How Mucho?
How Mucho?
I picked up a 85F a few years ago on the cheap that was missing some parts. Not long after I found an entire parts kit on gunbroker, and got it for under $100. All totaled I had less than $200 in the gun. I've since put hundreds of rounds of 380 through it. I too prefer 32 to 380 in small guns, but in these models 380 makes more sense. It's as big as a lot of 9mm sub compact pistols these days. I prefer the 85 to the 84 series. Yeah you get a few more rounds, but the 85's slimness just feel nice in the hand.
They are good looking guns but don’t serve much purpose as far as a carry gun compared to many other firearms out there. I own the 85, 84 and the 87. The 87 is the most fun out of them.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
I’ve got the 85FS and I love it. I carried it today, actually.
I’ve owned a bunch of .380s and have never found any to have objectionable recoil, including the blowbacks.
I’ve got this 85, an 84, an 81, and an 87. The 87 will be my geezer carry one day.
Is there a similar sized gun with more rounds and more power? Sure. So what? This will do the job, with a touch of class.
I’ve owned a bunch of .380s and have never found any to have objectionable recoil, including the blowbacks.
I’ve got this 85, an 84, an 81, and an 87. The 87 will be my geezer carry one day.
Is there a similar sized gun with more rounds and more power? Sure. So what? This will do the job, with a touch of class.
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.38SuperMan
Member
I have a model 84 380 that was Israeli army surplus. It’s in pretty nice shape and is the original model. I think it was just called the cheetah. It’s a scaled down 92 basically and holds 13 rounds. It’s quite accurate and enjoyable to shoot and Recoil is mild due to the weight.
It’s not a good concealed gun unless you put it in a vest pocket or hide it under a shirt but is good if you slip it in a camera bag or something like that.
Even though it’s a 380 I don’t feel it’s lacking what’s needed to shut down a bad situation. There are some pretty good defensive loads that will do the trick. Anyway I’m not one that believes you have to carry a hand cannon to stop someone. (Not trying to get a debate started)
It’s not a good concealed gun unless you put it in a vest pocket or hide it under a shirt but is good if you slip it in a camera bag or something like that.
Even though it’s a 380 I don’t feel it’s lacking what’s needed to shut down a bad situation. There are some pretty good defensive loads that will do the trick. Anyway I’m not one that believes you have to carry a hand cannon to stop someone. (Not trying to get a debate started)
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Grayfox
US Veteran
I have an 85FS. Nice gun, good shooter and very reliable.
But to be honest, when I carry a 380, more than likely it'll be a Colt Mustang or a Walther PPK/S. Nothing wrong with the Beretta, I just like these more.
OTOH these surplus 85BBs coming in now are at a very good price and the supply is drying up quick. Many places are already sold out. Grab one while you can.
But to be honest, when I carry a 380, more than likely it'll be a Colt Mustang or a Walther PPK/S. Nothing wrong with the Beretta, I just like these more.
OTOH these surplus 85BBs coming in now are at a very good price and the supply is drying up quick. Many places are already sold out. Grab one while you can.
smoothshooter
Member
Who has them?
smoothshooter
Member
The Walthers have terrible double-action triggers.
Grayfox
US Veteran
So what's your point?
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I bought one a year or so ago; neat little pistol, well made, reliable, and fun to shoot. It was my first 380 - I just wanted to see what that cartridge was about. I have other, more utilitarian, pistols for CCW, though I could use the Beretta. I say if the price is right, and you're interested, go for it.
Have both the 32 and 380 versions. Nice little pistols. Well not real little. The 32 is very pleasant to shoot, the 380 not as much. Italian police turn-ins. The 32 came from the prison system and the 380 was the Guardia di Finanza.
About those excessive recoil reports…
I own several blow back .32 ACP and .380 ACP pistols. They include these steel frame pistols:
- A couple Walther PP pistols in .32 ACP;
- A couple Walther PPK/S pistols in .380 ACP;
- An FEG AP9S in .380 ACP (PP clone but slightly larger sized);
- An FEG APK9S in .380 ACP (PPK/S clone but slightly larger sized);
- An FEG APK7S (same as the above except in .32 ACP);
- A Beretta Model 70S (.380 ACP); and
- An RIA Baby Rock (.380 ACP).
I also own a few aluminum alloy framed pistols including;
- An FEG SMC in .380 ACP;
- A Beretta Model 81 (.32 ACP); and
- A Bersa Thunder in .380 ACP.
For comparison purposes I also own a delayed recoil locked breech Kimber Micro (.380 ACP) and a delayed roller locked breach Kimber Micro 9 in, of course, 9mm Luger and both are aluminum alloy frame pistols.
Here are my observations on them:
1) The heavier steel framed blow back pistols have less felt recoil then the aluminum alloy frame blow back pistols. That’s just simple physics and the weight of the forearm.
2) The blow back pistols in .32 ACP are very pleasant to shoot, even in an aluminum alloy frame, while the .380 ACP pistols have more felt recoil. Again that’s just physics.
3) The only one of the above pistols that has objectionable recoil is the Bersa Thunder. I’m not sure why as the FEG SMC is both smaller and lighter but is much more pleasant to shoot than the Bersa Thunder.
Bersa just seems to have gotten everything perfect to maximize .380 ACP recoil, and if it’s someone’s only experience with a blow back .380 ACP, I can see why it would put them off of the entire breed.
4) Locked breech pistols have both lighter recoil springs and lower perceived recoil, as the delayed locking mechanism spreads the recoil out over a longer period of time with lower slide velocity.
5) The Kimber Micro in .380 weighs about half as much as a PPK/s in .380 ACP, but has about the same perceived recoil.
6) The a Kimber Micro 9, despite being slightly larger and heavier than the Micro, has a lot more perceived recoil.
Clockwise from upper left: FEG AP9S; Walther PP, Walther PPK/S; and FEG APK9S.
Clockwise from upper left: Bersa Thunder; Beretta Model 70S; FEG SMC; and Walther PPK/S.
——-
The Beretta pocket pistols are in my opinion all very interesting. Beretta took the same basic design and made a large number of variants over the years in .22 LR, .32 ACP and .380 ACP and in both steel and aluminum frames, in both single and DA/SA operating systems and with a number of minor variations in safeties, magazine releases and take down levers.
All of the, are interesting and all of the ones I have owned or shot have been well made, very reliable, accurate for the type and fun to shoot. However, I suspect that’s not the case for a significant number of Beretta’s customers as they definitely started going large on some of their designs, like their Model 81, which is positively huge for a .32 ACP pistol. Similarly, some of their .380 ACP pistols are compact 9mm sized.
Top to bottom: Beretta Model 70S; Model 71; and Model 81.
I own several blow back .32 ACP and .380 ACP pistols. They include these steel frame pistols:
- A couple Walther PP pistols in .32 ACP;
- A couple Walther PPK/S pistols in .380 ACP;
- An FEG AP9S in .380 ACP (PP clone but slightly larger sized);
- An FEG APK9S in .380 ACP (PPK/S clone but slightly larger sized);
- An FEG APK7S (same as the above except in .32 ACP);
- A Beretta Model 70S (.380 ACP); and
- An RIA Baby Rock (.380 ACP).
I also own a few aluminum alloy framed pistols including;
- An FEG SMC in .380 ACP;
- A Beretta Model 81 (.32 ACP); and
- A Bersa Thunder in .380 ACP.
For comparison purposes I also own a delayed recoil locked breech Kimber Micro (.380 ACP) and a delayed roller locked breach Kimber Micro 9 in, of course, 9mm Luger and both are aluminum alloy frame pistols.
Here are my observations on them:
1) The heavier steel framed blow back pistols have less felt recoil then the aluminum alloy frame blow back pistols. That’s just simple physics and the weight of the forearm.
2) The blow back pistols in .32 ACP are very pleasant to shoot, even in an aluminum alloy frame, while the .380 ACP pistols have more felt recoil. Again that’s just physics.
3) The only one of the above pistols that has objectionable recoil is the Bersa Thunder. I’m not sure why as the FEG SMC is both smaller and lighter but is much more pleasant to shoot than the Bersa Thunder.
Bersa just seems to have gotten everything perfect to maximize .380 ACP recoil, and if it’s someone’s only experience with a blow back .380 ACP, I can see why it would put them off of the entire breed.
4) Locked breech pistols have both lighter recoil springs and lower perceived recoil, as the delayed locking mechanism spreads the recoil out over a longer period of time with lower slide velocity.
5) The Kimber Micro in .380 weighs about half as much as a PPK/s in .380 ACP, but has about the same perceived recoil.
6) The a Kimber Micro 9, despite being slightly larger and heavier than the Micro, has a lot more perceived recoil.
Clockwise from upper left: FEG AP9S; Walther PP, Walther PPK/S; and FEG APK9S.
Clockwise from upper left: Bersa Thunder; Beretta Model 70S; FEG SMC; and Walther PPK/S.
——-
The Beretta pocket pistols are in my opinion all very interesting. Beretta took the same basic design and made a large number of variants over the years in .22 LR, .32 ACP and .380 ACP and in both steel and aluminum frames, in both single and DA/SA operating systems and with a number of minor variations in safeties, magazine releases and take down levers.
All of the, are interesting and all of the ones I have owned or shot have been well made, very reliable, accurate for the type and fun to shoot. However, I suspect that’s not the case for a significant number of Beretta’s customers as they definitely started going large on some of their designs, like their Model 81, which is positively huge for a .32 ACP pistol. Similarly, some of their .380 ACP pistols are compact 9mm sized.
Top to bottom: Beretta Model 70S; Model 71; and Model 81.
max503
Member
Are there better deals than this out there?
Italian Surplus Beretta 85BB Pistol SALE - AtlanticFirearms.com
BERETTA 85BB CHEETAH ITALIAN SURPLUS PISTOL-FAIR TO GOOD $299.
Italian Surplus Beretta 85BB Pistol SALE - AtlanticFirearms.com
BERETTA 85BB CHEETAH ITALIAN SURPLUS PISTOL-FAIR TO GOOD $299.
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Eddie Southgate
Member
I bought a used but like new 81BB the last time they were in this price range . Found factory new Beretta mags for a hair over $30 and bought three . Went looking for ammo and was mostly shocked at the asking price and almost couldn't find any even at that price. Checked at a local pawn shop that should have been my first stop and they had several brands in multiple boxes at pre panic prices so I hoarded everything they had. Averaged they were $22 a box of 50 . I don't normally buy factory ammo but had no components for .32 acp at the time.
The 81BB has usually been cheaper than the 85BB in the past so these are bargain basement prices , buy one now if you think you might ever want one . I bought a .380 barrel and mags so my 81BB can shoot both calibers, an 81BB barrel will work in the 85BB also. I'd spend the extra for the $349 version. Mine looked like it had thinning blue in several places in the GB ad pictures but when I got it the finish was perfect and oil was what caused it to look worn. I'd buy the 84 for the extra capacity if looking at a .380 .
The 81BB has usually been cheaper than the 85BB in the past so these are bargain basement prices , buy one now if you think you might ever want one . I bought a .380 barrel and mags so my 81BB can shoot both calibers, an 81BB barrel will work in the 85BB also. I'd spend the extra for the $349 version. Mine looked like it had thinning blue in several places in the GB ad pictures but when I got it the finish was perfect and oil was what caused it to look worn. I'd buy the 84 for the extra capacity if looking at a .380 .
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