My daughter owns a Hellcat and me a Shield Plus. I’m just wondering if there is value in a training 22LR?

If so, what are my options for $250 street price? or $350 street price?

There is a lot of benefit to shooting .22LR. In addition to working on the basics of grip, sight alignment and trigger control, the low recoil,also laws it obvious when you have developed a flinch due to recoil, and or have developed a poor trigger pull trying to shoot too fast.

&250 will get you a new Bersa Thunder on sale and $275 will get you one at regu,at real world prices. It large enough to generalize to larger handguns and has normal DA pistol controls in terms of safety/decock lever, slide release and mag release.

It’s also reasonably accurate, reliable and has a decent trigger.



The Ruger LCP in .22 LR is a bit more expensive and also has a lot less utility for training.

Check out the Ruger SR22. I have had one for at least 8 years. 10 round magazine. Never had a problem with it.Very reliable. Comes with two different size grips. I put the larger one on mine. Shoots just about anything you feed it.

I bought it as a training pistol for my wife.

I love shooting .22 pistols, whenever I'm bored I'll step out back and put 50 rounds into my .22 bullet trap at 50 feet. Great practice.....

Ruger MK1 Standard:



Here's a value, Heritage Rough Rider "Barkeep", I think this one was $149 or so:



Ruger Single Six, 1980's vintage:



Colt Diamondback, pricey but fun:

Few “ reasonable” priced 22 revolvers out there, try one of them too. I agree, start with a 22 for a new shooters less chance of developing a flinch or jerk. Get them started right as mentioned above, grip, stance, trigger control, sight alignment, everybody will be pleased.

The Taurus TX22 is a full size plinker that is fun to shoot. It is lightweight with 16 round magazines.

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Made it, Ma! Top of the world!

+++++++++1 for the Taurus TX22. Everyone I have talked to loves them. And probably one of the most economical pistols out right now. I also like the GSG Firefly, but many are temperamental with anything but CCI mini mags.

.22 revolvers and semi-autos have been a far better means for me to improve shooting skills rather than dry firing. Try several ammos, however, and stick with one that's accurate in your gun(s), operates a semi-auto action reliably, and always goes bang. Such requirements will eliminate most, maybe all, of the cheap bulk stuff so many like to buy and then complain about. Spend a little more and get CCI SV or something comparable.

You might want to take a look at the glock 44 (22LR). It has a trigger similar to both of your carry guns and street price should be close to your upper end.

I recently acquired a Bersa Thunder and it has become my favorite 22 semi. Mine's a bit picky about ammo. For under $300, it is a bargin.

FWIW,

Paul

I bought a SR22 for my wife and great grandson. Ever once in awhile I field strip it and half way wipe it clean and put some 3n1 oil on it. It's tin can accurate and has been very reliable with several brands of ammo. Larry

Spot on.

I’m not a Glock fan but I’m interested enough in the G44 that I’d buy one as I like .22 LR pistols.

I didn’t mention the other pistols I have that are comparable to the Bersa Thunder .22 LR as they are all well above its price range…but that’s also a very useful comparison point.

My Bersa Thunder will hold its own or beat all of the pistols here. It’s more reliable than my Walther PP in .22LR (an ex British military L66A1) with its old, cranky, and expensive to replace magazine. The PP .22LR examples start at $500 for well used examples and reach up around $1500 for pristine examples with box and accessories.

It’s also as accurate and reliable as my ex-Israeli Beretta Model 71 and my Umarex Walther PPK/S .22LR. The Beretta 71 was a $300 gun when imported 6-7 years ago, but they currently sell for $600-$800. A new PPK/S currently sells for around $400.

The problem with 22s is that revolvers tend to have a pretty heavy DA trigger, and semi-autos tend to be finicky about ammunition.

Fun, yes; but for training you might as well just buy more ammo for your existing gun.

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Uvidíme se později, aligátore.

Don't think one can ever go wrong shooting a .22.

Along with guns like my S&W .22 Compact and 15/22 I've got .22 uppers for my Browning HP and Beretta 92.

I've had a number of .22 semi-autos, including a 41, Woodsman (several), Rugers, PPK/S, and a Colt Conversion unit; all functioned well with CCI-SV.

I never gave any thought to firing double-action with a .22 revolver. I don't recall ever trying it with my 14, 18, 63, Troopers, Diamondbacks, and Officer Model Match guns so don't know if they have heavy double-action pulls. Guess I'll have to give it a try as I'm curious now. However, these revolvers all have fine single-action triggers.

I did not learn to shoot a handgun until I practiced Bullseye with my High Standard Victor, since I shoot on indoor ranges 22RF is easier on the ears.
The shooting skills acquired with a 22 carry over, the last time I fired a CF rile-a .270-at 100 yards off a rest I was getting 1.5" groups at 100 yards. Yes 22s are particular about their ammunition-so are centerfires, and given the shortages and high prices of components at present how many reload like they used to ?

At the beginning of the year I had a hemorrhage in my right eye that distorted the vision out of that eye. I could not focus on a red dot or iron sights. So all this year I basically had to relearn to shoot a handgun. With a boatload of .22LR shells I stashed away over the decades I practiced and practiced shooting cross-dominantly, right hand and left eye. No way could I have afforded at recent prices to shoot the number of centerfire shells that I fired with a .22 pistol this year working to relearn how to shoot bullseye again. I'm not quite back to where I was, but at least I didn't have to leave the firing line for good like I feared I would have to do.

If you speak from experience, describe it.

I have a 3rd Model 22 outdoorsman and a 17-3 and both of them have exceptional triggers.

I had a Ruger SP101 in . 22 LR and it’s trigger was just as good as my SP101 in .357 Mag.

I have a CZ 75 Kadet .22 LR and it is not finicky at all. Neither is by Bersa Thunder, my PPK/S .22 LR, or my Beretta 71. My Beretta 21A Bobcat is also relentlessly reliable.

I also have a pair of S&W 41s, a pair of High Standard 107 victors as well as a Ruger Mk I 678 Target, a Mk II 512 Target, and a Mk II government model. They are picky if I shoot cheap bulk ammo but decent SV ammo runs great in them. Given they are indeed as target pistols that’s not a big surprise.

I had stopped shooting 22's for some years, and I had forgotten just how much fun they are. Then I got a Walther PPK/S in 22 LR for my wife, and we both had so much fun with it, that she told me to get my own and stop hogging hers.

So I did. As an aside, I got them both from Sportsman's Warehouse where they sell normally for less than $400, but I got them on sale for less than $300 out the door.



They might be a little fussy with ammo, but mine run 100% with CCI either Mini-Mags, or Stingers. With regular bulk pack ammo, they might jam once in a while, but not enough to be really annoying. Yea, the DA pull is heavy, but the SA is pretty good. I've even learned to shoot it with the DA.

I suppose if there is a down side, it's that they only come with one magazine, and spares aren't cheap, but then I haven't seen magazines for anything that are cheap for a long time.

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John 3:16 .

Another for the TX22 Taurus. We've several (many) semi-auto .22LR pistols and the TX22 is the most trouble-free (including the Rugers and Walthers). Quite consistent with whatever ammo you have on hand as feed. Satsifyingly accurate.

Please - no Taurus bashing on my account. I have two of the brand and both are excellent specimens (the other is a Tracker in .44 Mag).

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Ordnung muss sein
SWHF #789

If you keep your eyes open and have some patience, you can find a cosmetically challenged Colt Woodsman or High Standard model b or Military in your price range. These won’t be new, but they work just fine.

To me, these are much superior to the contemporary 22’s discussed above.

I love .22s! I probably have more .22s than any other caliber.
I'm also a big believer in what I refer to as "understudies". That is a .22 caliber version of what would normally be a centerfire defensive gun. I have one of the Walther PPK/S .22 as already mentioned. Years ago I bought a Ciener Platinum Cup conversion unit for the 1911. I liked it so much that I built up a frame to mount it on permanently. I also have .22 conversions for my Sig P226 and AR-15.
I give my S&W Model 18s full credit for teaching me to properly shoot a DA revolver.

Any time you spend shooting only makes you better. A .22 makes it more fun!

I Just picked up a Ruger Mark lV. I almost bought a Sig P322 because tactical 22 copies are all the rage but I changed my mind as I find the target style 22s more fun and more accurate.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

.22s are extremely fun and great for learning (or re-learning) the fundamentals of marksmanship, but in my opinion they are of little use as training guns for a centerfire home defense or carry gun. I use to have a .22 conversion unit for my 1911s, and with it the guns simply felt and handled so differently it was like shooting an entirely different platform. The only exception I've found has been a .22LR conversion unit in an AR, since the weight difference is minimal.

Every shooter needs to have at least one .22 rifle and pistol, but use them for fun recreational shooting. When training for if bad things should happen use your actual defense gun.

A couple of years ago I bought a S&W M&P 22 compact as an understudy/plinker for my Shield and wife's 380 EZ. It's served us well in that regard, eating any ammo that I feed it. Due to it's light weight accuracy is more challenging than a heavier full size gun but it does force you to really focus on the fundamentals. It's a bit above your price point but worth it IMO.

Smith & Wesson M&P 22 Compact .22 LR 3.6" Barrel 10 RDs | GrabAGun

22s are a great way to practice trigger control and build confidence in a new shooter. There’s a tons of options out there for $300ish. I think the Ruger MKII is hard to beat. I like’em so much I shoot my K22 at 50 and 100yds sometimes just for fun.

Jeff Cooper said training should only be conducted with service guns and loads, Massad Ayoob has recommended "understudies"-the S&W M-18, e.g.
22 for self-defense ? Not my 1st, 2nd, 3rd or even 4th choice but beats feet, fists and foul language. I read of one case where an elderly woman stopped an assailant with 1 shot-to the throat. I have the Ciener units for my Browning HP and M1911s, haven't noticed any real difference in feel.
The Colt Service Ace attempted to simulate greater recoil.

I have a Bersa Thunder and love it but because of the all steel slide (which I like) it won't feed a lot of lower power rounds. I normally won't keep a gun that is not reliable with all ammo but I like the Thunder so well I buy it bricks of CCI Blazer and it is 100% reliable.

In my country (Argentina) almost all of us started shooting pistols with a .22 caliber Bersa, for these weapons to work properly you have to use high-velocity ammunition.

I put together a 1911 .22 conversion unit to practice ipsc with many years ago. Bought a .22 Vaquero and a Model39 Marlin for cas. .22 practice is cheaper than cf practice for the fundamentals. The only thing missing is recoil but with a 1911 conversion you get that too.

At my age, nearly all my range shooting now days is .22lr. On a nice day, I have lots of fun shooting and visiting with other old guys ( most also shooting .22 ).

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John

I think you get limited “training “ with a 22 , unless you a referring to learning the basics of trigger control and sighting
The low recoil allows for bad habits in gripping and is unrealistic for training to reduce muzzle flip/ follow up shots
Don’t get me wrong , I love 22s and have a few of them , but for training I prefer reduced loads in whatever I’m training with .

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the rules? there are no rules

It depends on what you get for a conversion, and what you consider training.

For example I have this aluminum slide Kimber conversion on an steel JPE frame that used to be home to a .400 CorBon slide. O totally agree that an aluminum slide on an aluminum frame can be excessively light but on a steel frame the weight isn’t far off from a steel slide 9mm or .45 ACP on an aluminum frame.

The recoil is still different, but the controls are the same and the basics of grip, sight alignment, and trigger control are the same, as are administrative and tactical reloads.





Then there are conversions like the CZ Kadet, where the “slide” is steel but functions as a carrier for the smaller direct recoil slide contained in it. If you are properly sling shotting the slide, the difference isn’t a meaningful difference. They come in both standard and compact lengths and you can put it on your CZ 75 frame in about a minute. It provides a feel that is much closer to the 9mm variant.



Then you have combinations like the Bersa Thunder in .22 LR and .380 ACP that are identical in form and fairly close in weight. If you can shoot the .22 LR version well in training, you’ll still obviously want to back stop it with some training on the snappier recoil .380 version, but all of the .22 LR basics will carry forward.




Or the Walther PPK/S in .22LS, which is weighted very close to its .380 ACP cousin, with identical function.




In my experience most self defense shooters simply do not shoot enough, and too much of that limited practice is spent trying to shoot a handgun in their carry caliber at speed, without spending enough time on the basics. Accuracy suffers and they just miss at a higher rate of fire, something that gets worse under stress as they devolve to the level of those not yet mastered basics.

Being able to shoot .22LR for $.06 per round versus $.24 per round wouLd allow them to shoot 4 times as much for the same money if they shoot all .22 LR.

Alternatively it lets them shoot a lot more if they split it up. For example $24 let’s them shoot 100 rounds of 9mm at $12 per box. But instead they can 50 rounds of 9mm and 200 rounds of .22LR and get 250 rounds fired with 50 of those still being in their carry caliber. They will benefit a lot more from 200 rounds of .22 LR than they will from another 50 rounds of 9mm.

And run it wet, rather than dry.

Jeff Cooper assumed a fairly high level of proficiency and regular practice.

When I look at what passes for handgun shooting on most ranges, I am seeing 90% of handgun shooters displaying a very low level of competence. They are not the shooters Cooper was talking about. These are shooters who have not developed a proper grip that facilitates maintaining proper sight alignment with decent trigger control allowing them to shoot accurately at speed.

Remember, Jeff Cooper talked about accuracy power and speed. We’re not talking about precision bullseye accuracy necessarily, but we are talking about the accuracy needed to get a solid center of mass hit, as the first person to score an effective center of mass hit is likely to win the fight, or at a minimum buy time to make another effective hit.

However it’s a level of accuracy well above just spraying rounds all over a B-27 or bottle target at 7 yards. It’s consistently holding the 10 ring or the inner boxes on a bottle target while shooting at speed.



You get to the point of being able to consistently keep double taps in the 10 ring by starting slow.

Bring the handgun in your line of sight, place the front sight on target, then pause to check your sight alignment as adjust it until it’s near perfect, then maintain it while you squeeze the trigger.

Over time, you’ll discover your hand knows exactly how it needs to grip the pistol to achieve precise sight alignment as when the front sight comes on target and you pause, the sights are already aligned and you start the trigger squeeze.

As your trigger control develops you can squeeze the trigger much faster without disturbing the sight alignment.

At that point the pause is maybe a 1/10th of a second or less to confirm you still need to shoot and that the front blade is indeed on the spot you want to bleed. At that point you are shooting fast *and* accurately, instead of just fast.

You’ll get there a lot faster and for a lot less money with a .22 LR conversion kit on your carry handgun, or with a .22LR version of your handgun than you will with your carry caliber. You’ll also do it without developing a flinch.

I’m a big believer in having a .22 twin or a conversion kit for a big gun.

Ruger Single six and BlackHawk

Marlin model 39 and a 30/30

S&W 617&627 Are some of my sets.

Kel-Tec P17 Pistol For Sale .22 LR P17BLK 640832007909 3.9 16 Round Black

I bought the blued one and a tan one. Both shoot nice.