An old Ithaca double barrel

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Well you see I went to a gunshow.
No intent to buy a gun.....seriously.
This just sort of happened.

The tag just said ithica 4e 12 gauge 1923 and the price 800.
I didn't know anything much about all the Ithica doubles and sure didn't think 1923 was it's actual year of manufacture.
It looked really nice so I bit.

Turns out it's a Flues and yeah in just a few months it will be 100
 

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Graded Ithaca guns usually have really nice wood. Alot of the older guns had 2 5/8 chambers to shoot 2 3/4 " shells. Fox and Parker for example. The hull opening into the forcing cone with paper hulls and fiber wads sealed better and helped prevent shot balling. I don't remember off the top of my head about Ithaca. I would suggest trying to find a low pressure load to use. Flues frame design isn't the best at securing the wood to frame and a lot of wood is removed for the inletting of the action.
 
Emil Flues was the inventor. Quite a gun designer and maker. Worked for quite a few of the mfg'rs in NY in that era incl Newton (Buffalo) and Baker (Batavia).
A number of his own hand made SBT guns are around as well.

Treat the Flues model kindly, it is not as strong as the later and last Ithaca SxS , the NID.

'Short Chambers' are a good possibility with that yr/mfg.
2 5/8" was standard for 12ga, but many of them measure out to 2 1/2".

The Flues frames are known to crack especially on the lightweight small bore guns. But not unkn on the 12s as well.
The crack usually starts right at the jucture of the standing breech and the action flat,,that 90* angle.
Then procedes downward thru the side wall of the frame,,which is very thin on the Flues.

Easy on the loads and it'll be fine. Push it with OTC 11.5k psi stuff and you are asking for problems.

The stock attachment to the frame on the Flues is another problem. That top-tang screw,,the one underneath the Top Lever,,is NOT a threaded bolt that extends down thru and threads into the trigger plate as with most every other SxS.
Instead on the Flues,,that Top Tang screw is a very short stubby,,wood screw.

It has very little holding power and offers no pulling/draw on the frame to pull the frame and stock together as with other SxS designs.
The rear tang screw coming up from the bottom is the only other frame to stock attachment bolt,,and it is a very small dia one.
For this reason, Flues models often have the top left and right 'ears' of the stock cracked right where the stock meets the frame.
That's from the action being able to rotate back and then upwards slightly on recoil. A result of the less than perfect Top Tang screw not being a solid clamping and draw together design.

The ejectors are fairly simple design and if they need work, can be repaired w/o too much hand wringing.
The mainsprings are coil as are the ejector springs.
In fact I think all the springs in the Flues are coil springs.
Been a while since I had one a part.

Bbl flats should show the chokes.
0,S,1,2,3,4
Cyl, Skeet, Imp Cyl, Mod, Imp Mod, Full

2&4 are the most common
Gold plated triggers were standard on the 4E IIRC

The orig finish of the frame was color case hardening. Top lever varied betw charcoal blue and CCH.
Trigger guards were charcoal blued.

The engraving was likely done by Bill McGraw . He was Ithaca's in house engraver at the time. The cut of the standard pattern looks like his. They did farm out some work and had other engravers working there from time to time.
McGraw worked as an engraver for Ithaca for something like 65 yrs starting around WW1.

That's all I remember at the moment..

Nice shotgun,,needs a SC or Skeet range!
 
What I've found out on it thus far.

The receivers on these are normally case colored.....this one is not.

I can slide a 3 1/2" shell in Which measures
2 15/16" in with 0 restriction.
So I believe the barrels have been opened up to accommodate longer shells.

The lockup is an absolute bank vault as tight as any double I have.
 

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Neat old gun!

It appears the stock had some well done repairs over the years.

Looks like a piece was spliced in at the top on the left side. The grain seems different and it looks like there's a seam running from the receiver to the back of the tang.

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There may have been a repair to the right side as well. It look like a seam in this first photo and a round plug in the second. The plug could be covering a reinforcement.

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Instead of the chambers themselves being lengthened, sometimes the chambers are left 'as-is' and instead the forcing cones on short chambered guns are 'relieved'.
The old style forcing cone,,the tapered entry step betw the chamber and the bore itself was a short, abrupt angle. Usually only a 1/2 long or so.
This helped at the time to keep patterns tighter and better gas seal when paper shells were in use with their cardboard and fiber wads.

With plastic shells which have a thinner wall thickness, and plastic wads which seal much better and slide easier thru the bore, the short , sharply angled forcing cones are no longer needed.

So, to better adapt the older short chambered shotshell guns to 2 3/4" hulls, many are simply left with their orig 2 5/8" chamber but the forcing cone is recut with a reamer to a very long and gentle angle.
This lets the 2 3/4" shell open up easily w/o the old old chamber end and forcing cone begining being in the way of that.
Plus much less metal is removed from the bbl wall when done.

All Shotshells are tapered,,,so a 3" or 3 1/2" loaded round may drop down into a short chamber that has had it's forcing cone lengthened depending on how much was taken out.

The same process is used to open up short chambered 16 and 20ga guns.

Not every short chambered gun is a candidate for the process of course and there are limits to what can be done. Measurements before work begins are must and understanding of what you are doing.
 
That is a beautiful gun Paul for a very good price. I had a standard field grade that I bought 45 years ago for 100.00. I sold it back to the family, because it belonged to somebody's grandfather and I thought it should stay in the family. The feather crotch wood is really nice.

The steel on these old guns is a bit weaker than newer steels and I recommend firing the lowest pressure shells you can find. I used Remington sure shot. Additionally, if you have a 2 9/16" chamber, I would not fire 2 3/4 inch shells as they open into the forcing cone, and raise the pressure. There is a company that makes 2 9/16" shells. I will try to find them.

Any double barrel Ithaca shotgun made in Ithaca NY, has been on the ATF's list of curios and relics for between 40-50 years

Nice find!!
 

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