First off, a link to a fun article (short read) -

Chinese Warlord Era Revolver

Here's my example of this genre. Six shot, with the barely rifled 4" barrel and cylinder being close to K-frame dimensions. The remainder of the gun is very much on the petite side, though.

The barrel markings are all gibberish. The trade mark is also poorly rendered. However, the grip medallions are credible, and the grips themselves are a decent fit and rather finely and nicely checkered.

It does have a legible four digit serial number on the butt, and amazingly a matching number on the rear face of the cylinder. It chambers .38 Special.

I've never removed the sideplate to check the lockwork, but it does seem to be generally in working order. In fact, the action is commendably smooth in double action, and the trigger pull in single action is pretty crisp (although the cylinder doesn't want to rotate fully into lockup when the hammer is manually cocked).

Attached Images

	HEChinaL.jpg (65.8 KB, 906 views)
	HEChinaR.jpg (75.1 KB, 731 views)
	HEChinaTM.jpg (87.1 KB, 749 views)
	HEChinaBarrelTop.JPG (205.2 KB, 658 views)

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Have you shot it?

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

"The barrel markings are all gibberish"

I was laughing while looking at the "patent dates" area on the top of the barrel ---- "gobbledygook" was my thought before and went back and read your "gibberish" . Thanks --- fun post !

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Y. B. Ord & A. Ree

Well, I have some +P stuff I need to shoot up, so maybe I'll take it to the range tomorrow. Seriously, no and not likely to, for two reasons. First, while .38 Special chambers, I've no idea what ammunition was really meant to be used in it, and no reason to be confident in its metallurgy. Second, whether the rifling was originally this thin or it's just plain shot out, the state of the bore is such that I can't imagine being able to hit anything with it. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the rounds keyholed.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

What you have is a genuine Smidh & Wisson Hand Elector.

Yep, that thing was made by a talented blacksmith in China. Lots of fake Mauser 98's came from China too. I would not trust any of these firearms, no telling what grade of steel was used and I doubt any were properly heat treated.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

The variety and quantity of small arms the Chinese were able to churn out in small, crudely equipped workshops is pretty impressive. The Mauser C96 "broomhandle" and FN M1900 pistols were both widely, if imperfectly, imitated. I have one of the latter, replete with faux trade and proof marks.

Attached Images

	CFN1900.jpg (55.9 KB, 203 views)
	CFN1900M.jpg (60.7 KB, 177 views)

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

It appears they let it soak in the Hot & Sour Soup too long! Man, don't know what the heck that is!!

I hope you came by that by way of free, and did not spend quality S&W funds on it. I would never fire that, the steel is no doubt junk.

I think that model was designed to fire a 38 caliber egg roll

I have never seen a photo of one , but I have heard the the Chinese made copies of the 1928-A1 Thompson.

I have however seen parts kits from Thompson that were converted to 7.62 x 25.

I have also heard of Chinese copies of 1911s and M-3 SMGs.

For some reason I cannot access the attachment. I sort of remember a similar article about war lord guns in the AR several years ago.

That is one ugly gun!!! The barrel markings could pass for Russian the way it looks. Hope you got a good deal on it, that meaning FREE.

This topic in general is actually pretty fascinating. Here's an article on a weird one that seems to have drawn on a number of different designs for inspiration:

Another Chinese Pistol

I've also attached a photo of a similar, although not identical, pistol.

Attached Images

Chinese.jpg (17.3 KB, 178 views)

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

You need a copy of Ian McCollum's "Pistols of the Chinese Warlords."

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S&WCA 1729

but apparently the gunsmith filled in the "hillary hole", or they used a plain rivet for the hammer

Apparently an expensive book, but if I can find one reasonably priced, I'll add it to my library. Thanks for the heads up on it.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

It doesn't look like they paid any more attention to patents and copyright laws back then than they do now.

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You're shy a few manners.

Here's a great account (with lots of terrific photos) on another forum regarding phony hand ejector revolvers produced in China during WWII. In this case they were serially manufactured rather than singularly handmade knock-offs. They blatantly marked them "SMITH & WESSON" on the barrels, but did make an small error in stamping the other side with the caliber information.

See: Chinese War Time Arsenal Copy of Smith Wesson Revolver | Gunboards Forums

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Another excellent article on Chinese warlord era copies in general.

See: Chinese Warlord Pistols: 1916-1949 | An Official Journal Of The NRA

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

More on the aforementioned book by Ian McCollum:

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

If you look close enough you can make out Norinco on it.

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Forum consigliere

Beautiful revolver, obviously very high quality. Looks like a good candidate for a rechambering job to the .357 magnum

QED with these precision Chinese rechambering tools....



I did actually check to see if the cylinder was bored straight though so as to allow a .357 Magnum cartridge to be inserted, but that round wouldn't go in. It does seem that for any of its other shortcomings, the gun was correctly chambered to accept .38 Special only.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Quite fascinating, really. Thanks for bringing the topic to our attention. Interesting historical relics.

I would shoot it without hesitation with light cast bullet handloads. if it hasn't blown up with factory ammo or WW2 full metal jacket over all these years it is surely safe to fire with light loads. It might become your favorite plinker

I do believe NORINCO is a 1911 "clone" and highly regarded as being quite sturdy and decently reliable with no more end-user fiddling than the Genuine article - nor even the S&W COPY of the 1911!
What?

The Chinese made AKs that were permanently banned from import thanks to Old Joe, Hills, and James were of outstanding quality and reliability.

Off-topic: I watched a documentary showing Filipinos building 1911s in huts, using basic hand tools and files. The final product looked machine made.

Reminds me of some Khyber Pass guns I've seen...

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Randy

There's one such held in the collection of the Imperial War Museum. See: Chinese Thompson copy & 'Thampson' | Imperial War Museums

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Just to show that, for all they may be disparaged, these Chinese copies can in fact bring big money...

See: Lot Detail - (C) CHINESE BROOMHANDLE MAUSER C96 SEMI-AUTOMATIC .45 ACP PISTOL.

More on these: Chinese Warlord Pistols: The Huge Shanxi .45 ACP Broomhandle

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Copies of the Fabrique Nationale Model 1900 are among the most common "warlord" guns, although they vary a good deal in their details. I posted mine in reply #6 above. Several years ago, the Rock Island Auction Company sold a group of four Chinese pistols, three of which were 1900 types. Interestingly, one of those is pretty similar to my example, right down to its horn grips. But in keeping with the theme that no two of these will be precisely alike, you can pick out differences in detail, such as the style of the sights, serrations, and safety lever. See: Four Chinese Semi-Automatic Pistol Copies | Rock Island Auction (it's the one at the bottom that's fairly close to mine).

Here's an article about another of these as well: The Chinese 1900, A Hand Crafted Copy -The Firearm Blog (if you look at the photo of the gun disassembled, you have to afford respect to some small shop's ability to fabricate all these parts by hand and come up with any sort of working sidearm).

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

I've heard stories of the steel on those Norinco 1911s being as tough as old boots.


As for their Mauser rifle clones, 98s and FN Model 24s, all the ones I've seen were long past "rode hard and put away wet", so shooting them to find out if they hold up hasn't been an option. I thought the South Americans put their guns through hell, but the Chinese carried it to another level.

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Release the Kraken

Spotted this single photo of another Chinese hand ejector copy on the internet. The trade mark on the frame and the grip medallions are passable facsimiles of the real thing. It's also better than most from the standpoint of decipherable markings, in that "SMITH & WESSON" is correctly spelled on the side of the barrel, but both words are inexplicably inverted, so when you rotate the gun 180°, it reads "WESSON & SMITH" instead.

Attached Images

Chinese HE.jpg (23.4 KB, 69 views)

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Once again, proof that these crude "warlord" pistols can nowadays fetch respectable prices. This trio was sold by The Rock Island Auction Company late last year: Three Chinese Semi-Automatic Pistols | Rock Island Auction

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Dyslexia perhaps?

The prices these "warlord" guns are commanding now have gotten pretty substantial. The Rock Island Auction Co. sold this one just last month: Chinese Manufactured External Hammer Semi-Automatic Pistol | Rock Island Auction

Here's another that looks worse but went for even more: Chinese Manufactured Semi-Automatic Pistol with Carved Grips | Rock Island Auction

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

A couple of articles talking about the revolvers that have been recently produced and issued for Chinese police use.

See: China'''s Police Will Carry Guns Unlike Any Others - WSJ

And also: Shanghai Police Officers Now Carry 9mm Revolver -The Firearm Blog

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Everything I've read and seen about the "new" Chinese police revolver cartridge makes me think they have reinvented the 38 S&W.

You shoot it, and then an hour later you want to shoot it again!

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Uvidíme se později, aligátore.

An interesting video produced by Ian McCollum -

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

A fun video, detailing a quirk of the handmade FN M1900 copies that I was not aware of. It made me get mine out (see post #6 above) to check its serial number (which is not 26063).

In the Rock Island Auction Co. sale I provided a link to in post #30 of this thread, it turns out one of the four pistols is serial numbered 26063 and another is 126063.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Once again, the prices these warlord pistols are fetching, even when non-functional, are simply astronomical -

Chinese Manufactured Semi-Automatic Pistol | Rock Island Auction

Documented Chinese Manufactured Semi-Automatic Pistol | Rock Island Auction

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

An Ian McCollum article: Another Unusual Chinese Pistol

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

I have a Norinco 1911A1 and consider at least equal to any wartime production US made 1911A1. Obviously not as collectable as US production but when is comes to fit, finish and function probably a little better because the sights are just slightly larger.

Back when I had my shop I was in communication with a guy in Florida trying to trace a Chinese copy of an M&P that was engraved to a guy named Charles Race, CWS.

Turns out the guy was a chem war specialist (Chemical Warfare Service) who had done something great for a village in China and they gave him a knock off M&P engraved with is name. It was in .32, I think because the barrel may have been made from an old Mauser but thats a guess.

Eventually I tracked down who the guy was and tracked down his family. The guy came back from the war, hit the bottle and crashed and burned. Supposedly he had a hand in the development of early napalm. Before he died the family says the guns were given away/sold/taken away.

Eventually the guy who contacted me was able to re-unite the gun with the family.

Best,
RM Vivas

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RM Vivas
SWCA#1482L, SWHF#837

Here's an example of this genre that I haven't seen the likes of before. The auction was several years ago and apparently the gun went unsold.

See: Chinese Copy of a Colt Model 1903 Semi-Automatic Pistol | Rock Island Auction

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

They made a lot of copies of many guns. The OP looks like a pretty "good" one. I would never shoot it, a real piece of history.

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No baby we aint

It's a piece of something, that's for sure.

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You're shy a few manners.

In the 1980's, "The In Thing" was WWI and between the wars Spanish copies, being dumped on the market. We always assumed they were "captured" at the end of WWII and as they started clearing out "Dad's Stuff" they came on the market. Over the years I have had several 32 Autos in this family. Most were belly gun accurate.

I've also seen a Belgium copy of a No 3 Russian, hitting several dealers' flea market tables. That was from the 1880's or 90's and was in better condition than most S&W originals you encounter!

"Not made here!" is a syndrome Americans and England seem to suffer from a lot!

Ivan

A short article by Ian McCollum (with an embedded video): My Favorite Chinese Warlord Pistol: the Luger Grip Type By: Ian McCollum | Global Ordnance News

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

This came up for auction last month, but apparently there were no takers. Note the estimated price range. I'd judge the quality to be far better than what is typically seen with these, as it looks to have been more precision machined than hand made.

Chinese "Warlord" Copy of the Mauser Model 1912/14 Pistol | Rock Island Auction

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"