General How Does This Work? Question

[Smoke]

Let's assume a given police department has decided to purchase 500 new pistols for their officers. Let's also assume they've decided to get the same model gun for everyone, for the purpose of this discussion M&PFS9.

They send an order for 500 pistols to S&W.

Do they get the first 500 in the warehouse or does S&W do a special run for that police department?

[Dvus]

FWIW, (it's a free forum, so you get what you pay for) I believe that it would fall in line behind previous orders and be filled with what is available when available. If an expedited order, they might get what is in the warehouse ahead of commercial orders. If a special order for a different feature or special markings/serial numbers was placed, they would get the next available production date. Unless it was an expedited special order... This would make sense in any commercial manufactory, and like everything S&W, there is always an exception.

[Muss Muggins]

My experience is that the pistols generally come from a distributor, thus they are already manufactured. We purchased about 100 Glock 22’s and 23’s back in the early 90’s,
and those pistols were stamped with the department shoulder patch and serial numbers to match specific DSN’s. I assume, but don’t know for certain, that they were from a contiguous run. Regardless, the shipment came from a distributor.

[Doug M.]

I agree. It is unlikely that they would be obtained directly from the factory (except maybe Springfield PD). S&W had LE distributors the last I knew. In many if not most places, there are state or regional contracts for firearms, ammo, pencils and every other thing under the sun, many of which are at a substantial discount from what you or I would pay. Under some conditions. a firearm manufacturer would do a really sweet deal to get their product in the hands of PDs because of the advertising value.

[Piwo]

When Cleveland Police went with the Glock in 2003, the guns were ordered through a distributor and then made at the factory, as I was led to believe. We had an equal number of 19s and 17s, or about 900 of each. All 19s had the same three letters followed by numbers 001 to about 900. The 17s had three same letters followed by the numbers 001 to 900. They were ordered through the distributor and delivered. I may be wrong, but I think that we could have ordered factory direct but Glock preferred we deal with the distributor system. It has been over 20 years ago and my memory may be slightly off.

Then the joy of 6 or so of us inspecting the serial number of every one.

[Goony]

Originally Posted by Doug M.

...Under some conditions. a firearm manufacturer would do a really sweet deal to get their product in the hands of PDs because of the advertising value.

Glock is a past master at this sort of thing, especially in the 1980's when they were determined to promote (at any cost) their product as the law enforcement sidearm. The following are excerpts from Glock:The Rise of America's Gun by Paul M. Garrett -

"Using imaginative financing and trade-in arrangements allowed [Glock] to sign up police departments on tight budgets. In Marietta, Georgia, [they] won over Police Chief Charles Simmons in 1988 by promising to arm his hundred-person force without any money changing hands. The Marietta PD simply exchanged 126 old handguns for 100 new Glock 17s...."

"When it did trade-ins, Glock sold the used police handguns to wholesalers, who refurbished them for sale at firearm shops and weekend gun shows. Overhauled police weapons became a staple on the used-gun market throughout the United States, and trade-ins emerged as an important aspect of the Glock modus operandi."

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

Those pistols were stamped with the department shoulder patch and serial numbers to match specific DSN’s.

Wouldn't something like that have to be done at the factory?

[Smoke]

Another aspect of the same question.

Is the warehouse or distributor likely to have 500 handguns in stock?

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by Smoke

Wouldn't something like that have to be done at the factory?

Of course. But then the factory shipped them to the distributor, who shipped them to the department. You getting ready to order 100 guns?

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by Smoke

Another aspect of the same question.

Is the warehouse or distributor likely to have 500 handguns in stock?

Probably not. Gonna take a minute to fill the order . . .

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

You getting ready to order 100 guns?

Just curious.

[NewLiberty]

Originally Posted by Smoke

Another aspect of the same question.

Is the warehouse or distributor likely to have 500 handguns in stock?

For a common duty handgun? Yes. It is not uncommon for me to see inventories in the high hundreds for common handguns at my distributors.

A lot of agency sales are done through police supply companies who specialize in these sorts of transactions, and then take the old guns on trade in, and sell them to FFLs like me.

[sipowicz]

I didn’t realize we had so many Generals here!

[Puller]

Originally Posted by Goony

Glock is a past master at this sort of thing, especially in the 1980's when they were determined to promote (at any cost) their product as the law enforcement sidearm. The following are excerpts from Glock:The Rise of America's Gun by Paul M. Garrett -

"Using imaginative financing and trade-in arrangements allowed [Glock] to sign up police departments on tight budgets. In Marietta, Georgia, [they] won over Police Chief Charles Simmons in 1988 by promising to arm his hundred-person force without any money changing hands. The Marietta PD simply exchanged 126 old handguns for 100 new Glock 17s...."

"When it did trade-ins, Glock sold the used police handguns to wholesalers, who refurbished them for sale at firearm shops and weekend gun shows. Overhauled police weapons became a staple on the used-gun market throughout the United States, and trade-ins emerged as an important aspect of the Glock modus operandi."

Hmm, I bet Glock has filled a number of 500 unit orders for LE.

[Smoke]

So based on the responses I've read so far, whether you go through a distributor or not it doesn't sound like they're going to have enough stock on hand to just ship the police department 500 or even 100 guns. Especially not if it's a special run where apparently the serial number on the gun is the same as the service number of the person that it's being issued to.

This question came from a discussion on another form in which a poster said that he wanted a gun with a "Duty History". He didn't specify whether he meant an actual police trade in or a type of gun that had been issued to a police department.

FWIW CSPD has 628 officers. In the early 2000s they traded their 5906's for M&P 9s. I don't know if they did it all at once or it was a phased replacement but at some point cspd had to buy 628 plus some extra M&P 9s from somebody

[CH4]

I imagine it would depend how they’re spec’d. May need to be a special run.

[loc n load]

Back in the 70’s and & 80’s I worked part time as an armorer for a large S&W LE distributor. Back then, everybody was issuing revolvers.
This distributor handled orders from a couple dozen to several thousand revolvers depending on the department.
Large orders typically had to filled as soon as the specified revolver could be delivered by the company. Sometimes this took a while, due to demand and inventory on hand and parts on hand to assemble a given number of revolvers.
This distributor paid several of us who were Smith certified armorers to inspect & function test each revolver before it went out the door. That meant testing it to see if it would function in DA and SA mode, and to inspect each one to assure they had been assembled correctly.
There was a reason this company paid us good money to do this. We routinely found revolvers that were not completely assembled, or did not function when dry fired.
All department orders were shipped from Smith to a distributor.. We checked them, and then sent them out the door.
I would imagine that S&W still ships all their department ordered guns to a distributor, and then they are sent forth from there.

[6518John]

Originally Posted by Dvus

FWIW, (it's a free forum, so you get what you pay for).

It’s a “free” forum because of the graciousness of it’s owner, Lee Jarrett, and his contributing members.

Please Consider Becoming A Supporting Member!

[Retired W4]

Dayton Gun Headquarters M-14-2, 4" comes to mind. Most, if not all were in SN range K623xxx-K624xxx. The last 3 digits were all over the place. Then there were other retailers, like Gil Hibard who ordered lots of them. DPD was getting 100 to 180 at a time.

Of course I don't know how the factory worked all that out.

All that at no charge, which is about what it's worth.

[LVSteve]

Originally Posted by Smoke

This question came from a discussion on another form in which a poster said that he wanted a gun with a "Duty History". He didn't specify whether he meant an actual police trade in or a type of gun that had been issued to a police department.

Unless the guns are marked with the department ID or known to be in a serial number range sold to LE, how is the guy going to know? I've bought two S&W pistols from surplus places that were supposed to be LE trade-ins. Maybe they are, and maybe they aren't. Then there's the weird M&P 9 5 inch that I bought which has an LE SKU number but came out of a general online auction like an estate or clearance sale. Never say never.

Picking up pistols with LE history certainly isn't like getting milsorp rifles. Mind you, with milsurps, can you say for sure it saw combat, or spent its life behind the lines with a warehouse guard?

[Gene L]

I don't know about S&W, but when we ordered 30 Mini-14s, they came directly from Ruger. I doubt a distributor would have 500 pistols in stock. I know they didn't have 30 Ruger in stock. Back then, at least.