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Old 01-17-2024, 02:00 PM
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Marines use of Winchester 97s in the Pacific? Marines use of Winchester 97s in the Pacific? Marines use of Winchester 97s in the Pacific? Marines use of Winchester 97s in the Pacific?  
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This is Bruce Canfield's book "Complete Guide To United States Military Combat Shotguns"


On page 109, it talks about the Raiders loving the 97 in the jungle. On page 155 is a picture of a Sailor carrying a 97 at Port Arms. He happens to be my Father-In-Law.
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Old 01-17-2024, 07:18 PM
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From being a student of US military history for over 60 years there are quite many Original WWII pics of Marines with shotguns. Some of them can not determine the mfg. Having read Many books written by Marines regarding combat and there are many mentions of shotgun usage. If my books were not boxed up would try and dig out a few. Moving sux.
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Old 01-17-2024, 09:19 PM
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Marines use of Winchester 97s in the Pacific? Marines use of Winchester 97s in the Pacific? Marines use of Winchester 97s in the Pacific? Marines use of Winchester 97s in the Pacific? Marines use of Winchester 97s in the Pacific?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Corp View Post
Cannot add much to the discussion of the military use of the M97. I did luck onto one that came from an estate the LGS I was working p/t at had come in.
It is an original 12 ga. 'Police Model' with a 20" cyl. barrel, and in surprisingly good condition, like perhaps it spent much of it's life in a armory rack or similar. S/N shows it to be a c.mid-1930's gun.

A lot of fun to shoot and has gotten some interesting looks at a Sporting Clays facility I shoot at occasionally.
A very strange facet of this gun was found when I first got it and was trying out different defense loads in it at the range - buck, slugs, etc.

Found that if using a very consistent hold, using the front bead only, and from a bench - it would literally stack 1 oz. Foster slugs atop one another out to almost 100 yards. Completely unexpected for a shotgun rapidly approaching the 100 year mark.
Many moons ago, the officers at my PD were allowed to carry their personal shotguns. I had a cut-down 97.

During qualifications, the drill was to put five slugs in one front trouser pocket and five buckshot rounds in the other front trouser pocket. Upon command, we were to load 5 slugs and shoot them at a 50 yard silhouette. Then, load 5 buckshot rounds & fire them at a 25 yard silhouette. All from the standing position.

I loaded my 97 and shot my 50 yard target. When it became time to fire at 25 yards, I realized I had fired my 00 buckshot rounds at 50, not the slugs. I told the range officer this and he laughed.

After I fired my slugs, we checked the targets. The range officer was still laughing at me, until we found 45 buckshot holes in the 50 yard target. And this was with a cylinder bore barrel.
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Old 01-17-2024, 09:54 PM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
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Marines use of Winchester 97s in the Pacific? Marines use of Winchester 97s in the Pacific? Marines use of Winchester 97s in the Pacific? Marines use of Winchester 97s in the Pacific? Marines use of Winchester 97s in the Pacific?  
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Great info. I have an un-circumsized 97 with a 32 in full choke barrel. made in 1917. Killed several deer with it using OOB. Mine still runs like it was new.
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Old 01-17-2024, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Corp View Post
Cannot add much to the discussion of the military use of the M97. I did luck onto one that came from an estate the LGS I was working p/t at had come in.
It is an original 12 ga. 'Police Model' with a 20" cyl. barrel, and in surprisingly good condition, like perhaps it spent much of it's life in a armory rack or similar. S/N shows it to be a c.mid-1930's gun.

A lot of fun to shoot and has gotten some interesting looks at a Sporting Clays facility I shoot at occasionally.
A very strange facet of this gun was found when I first got it and was trying out different defense loads in it at the range - buck, slugs, etc.

Found that if using a very consistent hold, using the front bead only, and from a bench - it would literally stack 1 oz. Foster slugs atop one another out to almost 100 yards. Completely unexpected for a shotgun rapidly approaching the 100 year mark.
About a million years ago I bought a 97 Riot gun from a small gun shop in Havelock, NC. It was marked as a NC Prison gun. Shoot it a few times and then needed some money for the family and sold it. Now I wish I had kept it.
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Old 01-17-2024, 10:56 PM
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Be aware in WWI paper shotshells were issued to the troops for use in the shotguns. WWI was a notably WET war, so shotguns did NOT prove to be very useful because most would jam solid on the first shot fired if the gun was kept loaded and if it was unloaded it was found that wet paper shells can't be chambered.
My first thought too. As long as you had all-brass shotshells they would probably bee pretty effective.
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Old 01-17-2024, 11:03 PM
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Be aware in WWI paper shotshells were issued to the troops for use in the shotguns. WWI was a notably WET war, so shotguns did NOT prove to be very useful because most would jam solid on the first shot fired if the gun was kept loaded and if it was unloaded it was found that wet paper shells can't be chambered.
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My first thought too. As long as you had all-brass shotshells they would probably bee pretty effective.
The brass case issue was also referenced on Page 109 of Canfield's Combat Shotguns book. The Raiders prefered them to paper cases. We had them in Viet Nam also.
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Old 01-18-2024, 12:08 AM
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Please do not ever do this. I survived as did my '97. I purchased a LEE Loader at a local gun show. The box was torn and the label designating the caliber was missing. The seller said it was for a 12 ga. 2 3/4". I happily loaded a box of 25 using the supplied scoop, Red Dot Powder, 1 1/8 oz of shot and off to the trap field I went with my buddy.

We started a round of trap and, when my turn came up, I got a very horrendous slap to my cheek from the buttstock. I passed it off as it was cold, and I thought I was more sensitive due to the cold. My next shot gave me the same treatment as before. The third shot was no different, but I heard a metallic snap that was alarming. I bowed out of the competition, racked the slide and watched the 'slide stop' drop out of the receiver in two pieces. The slide stop is the part that keeps the bolt locked in battery when fired. As it turned out, I had loaded the 2 3/4" shells using a 3", 12 ga. magnum LEE Loader powder scoop with Red Dot powder. I can attest to the strength of the '97 as it digested three 12 ga. magnum loads. I replaced the broken slide stop and still shoot this '97.
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Old 01-21-2024, 11:48 PM
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Model 12’s too!
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Old 01-22-2024, 07:51 AM
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I own one in 12 Ga.,standard length barrel. I found an after market barrel and cut it down to 18". I need to sell the set soon. Its very tight. I wish I had the vented top guard that came on the combat model.
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Old 01-22-2024, 08:20 AM
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I own one in 12 Ga.,standard length barrel. I found an after market barrel and cut it down to 18". I need to sell the set soon. Its very tight. I wish I had the vented top guard that came on the combat model.
Go here to sell: https://smith-wessonforum.com/guns-sale-trade/ Not supposed to be fishing here.
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Old 09-25-2024, 02:54 AM
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Just listened to a WW2 Marine veteran interview. His Lt used a 97 on Saipan to kill two nips who emerged from concealed foxholes during a close range engagement.
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Old 09-25-2024, 06:57 AM
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There are many excellent books on WWII USMC actions in the Pacific with pics of Marines carrying assort shotguns. The above mentions references to some of these books are spot on. Most of my books are packed up.
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Old 09-25-2024, 08:29 AM
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When I began my LEO career in 1962 every patrol vehicle had a Model 97 in the gun lock.
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Old 09-25-2024, 09:32 AM
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The 97 was a darned good shotgun. There is a reason it was made right up thru 1957.
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Old 09-25-2024, 06:43 PM
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The first time I disassembled a Model 97, I had to look up how it was done. After that, no problem.
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Old 09-27-2024, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
In addition to "US Infantry Weapons of WWII", Canfield also did "U.S. Combat Shotguns" and "Complete Guide to Military Shotguns". I've seen neither of these books but wouldn't hesitiate to buy them if I had an interest in such material. That decision is based solely on the quality of work I've seen in a couple of other Canfield books I purchased some years ago. I'd check Amazon among other sources. May not be cheap, but they will have good information, probably better than you'll find anywhere else.
I bought those books at the last November Tulsa Show. I think they were available at two different tables. I have most, and maybe all of Canfield's books.
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Old 09-27-2024, 05:02 PM
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About reliability , The paper shells originally used would swell and refuse to chamber in the humid environment. This was cured by buying brass cased ammo.
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Old 09-27-2024, 06:04 PM
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That Stevens 520 has John Browning written all over it!!!
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Old 09-27-2024, 10:18 PM
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I bought those books at the last November Tulsa Show. I think they were available at two different tables. I have most, and maybe all of Canfield's books.
Look at Page 155 of the Combat Shotguns book by Canfield. That is my Father-In-Law holding the M1897.
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Old 10-03-2024, 04:55 PM
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I’ve had quite a few 97s. You won’t believe how many trench guns were stripped down and made into slug guns. That trench gun stuff was just extra weight and brush catchers. I put rifle sight on several and drilled one for scope. I never got to shoot the scoped one but the ones I put rifle sights on shot like champs. Only one was a factory riot model the others were all full choke that I cut. Everyone wanted 18”, I always cut 18.5”,
the devils share to avoid any close call arguments. I still have one that I rescued from a Bubba DIY poly choke job. I saved just under 24” and had the sights off a Model 70 in 375H&H. Idea slug sights for taking deer on the wing in thick cover. The gun was in near mint condition. I decided to have
my gunsmith do the silver solder. Afraid I would screw up the blue. Anyway
this was back when screw ins were just becoming popular. GS talked me out of making it into a slug gun and made me a deal on screw in choke job.
He had just got tooling. Anyway that’s how I ended up with short 97 with screw in chokes. I wish I had left wood alone but was hell on Birchwood back then.
Winchester 1897s used aren’t really for those who don’t know anything about them. The first thing to do is put it on half cock and fool with trigger
if hammer wobbles you got problems, worn parts. Second give away is loose barrel on TD models. I knew a guy that had field champion beagles that wouldn’t let anyone who hunted with him to use 1897s because of
close calls with accidental discharges. Personally I think most were from fat fingers.
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