Yep . . I think so. I have a 6in M44 (shoulder rig) that I have toted around in Alaska and on other hunting trips when I use a shotgun. Overall, VERY happy with that big 44mag and its capability, but since experimenting with my G41 & 10mm barrel, I have come to believe that 15 rounds of 10mm might be preferred over 6 rounds of 44mag.



Interesting article here . . .
10mm Caliber Pistols & Their Defensive Use Against Bear Attacks

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If it wont stop the bear at least you can put yourself out of misery.

John

It’s more about shot placement and bullet construction. Along with the various 44 and 500 magnums, the Glock 10MMs with 15 rd mags are very common in Alaska, or they were when I worked there.

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213th FBINA

The largest Polar Bear recorded in Alaska was killed by Indian lady with...............A .22 long cartridge.

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S&W Accumulator

No personal experience but done some reading on the subject… I get the impression that a good 10mm is about on par with a good 357 mag. Yet generally people will say 357 doesn’t cut it for brown bear.

For head shots sectional density should be king, since virtually anything that makes it into the skull will have an effect. (See Bella Twin, for example.) Perhaps the 357 is derided simply because the 44 mag exists in similar guns?

Can’t argue with the capacity side of the equation. Love the story of the guy doing the 45acp reload *during* the bears charge - wow!

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A lot of knowledgeable outdoorspeople, guides and agencies have gone to 10mm handguns for bear defense.
At handgun velocity it is all about penetration and the projectile hitting something vital on the way through. It isn't necessarily intuitive but as we learn more about terminal ballistics, it becomes clearer.
Faster, more accurate follow-up shots from a pistol with good penetration count for more than heavier rounds from a revolver.

FMJ Ammo. Without penetration more rounds will just make them madder.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I would feel adequately safe with a 10mm in Bear country. Although I would imagine not being caught by surprise by a Bear would be high on the list regarding surviving a Bear attack in order for you to get those good shots first, regardless what you’re carrying.

Speed is critical as is accuracy. Personally, I would prefer a flame thrower.

Its amazing the various threads and events I have read on this topic on Ammoland. I saw one list where they detailed bear defense encounters with everything from 38spl to 454 casul. Several 9mm and 40SW events but nope, I would have not chose them. One guy was out changing a tire roadside when attacked.

My wife, myself, and two dogs have made two camping trips to Alaska in our Airstream. For protection, we rely on two firearms; a 12 gauge shotgun and a Glock 29 (with 15 rd. mags). We travel through Canada with the shotgun. I ship the Glock to a friendly FFL in Anchorage. When out in the boondocks I carry the Glock on my chest and bear spray on my side. This is pretty common practice. We have close friends in Fairbanks that fully support this approach. Buffalo Bore hard cast ammo is a must.

The 12 gauge shotgun has a slug up front with 00 buckshot and is always very close when camping.

You can handload - or buy Underwood ammo for maximum power in a .357 magnum that has enough barrel to benefit, but it's still just SIX shots with a relatively slow reload.
You can carry a relatively portable .44 magnum stoked with overloads, but you still only have SIX shots and the recoil is extreme.

The same applies to "compact" .454, .460S&W, and .500S&W revolvers - super powerful, but only FIVE chances in the wheel.

The 10mm is only 11 - 16% less "powerful" than the .44 magnum, and in Glock format holds 16 shots with standard mag, larger mags are available. That's SIXTEEN chances to "get 'er done" as they say. Put another way, that's 2.66 times as many shots as the 6-shooter. Total potential deliverable energy is 12,000 foot-pounds. Even the mighty .500S&W short barrel maxes out around 10,000 foot-pounds with top loads.

The same rule applies when dealing with dangerous animals in the wild as it does in the inner city. When all the compared calibers are capable of killing or effecting a "one-shot stop" with just ONE shot, or failing to do so, energy per shot becomes irrelevant, while number of shots becomes primary. The same concept that applies to the 9mm versus all the others regarding human encounters applies to 10mm versus all the others regarding dangerous animal encounters.

For those who aren't fans of the Glock platform, there is now quite a variety of 10mm handguns on the market including longslide models that really extract the best the caliber has to offer.

Hey, a new topic.

I think nothing portable and legal is definitive in a life or death situation with an aggressive animal of this size. You can only improve your odds around the margins with enough power, multiple rapid shots on target and practice. For this situation, a 10 mm pistol seems as good as anything you can carry on a belt.

The Danish government issues the 10 mm to their northern Greenland forest patrol staff. Presuming they could buy and use whatever handgun they thought best for the task, that is a pretty strong endorsement.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Ah........All these bear threads...........Safest escape is to make sure you can out run your partner.

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S&W Accumulator

I live in grizzly country, but the encounters are rare, yet very possible. A track star runs 100 meters in 10 seconds with only two legs. A grizzly runs faster. If you do have to pull out your handgun, it's probably less than 100 meters away. When I go hiking without a rifle, I carry a sure six, because if I don't get it done by the second shot, well - there are no second place winners in bear country.

A .41 Magnum Remington 210 grain Soft Point from a 4" 57 runs 1250...

An Underwood 200 grain Hardcast has the same sectional density as the .41 210 and is also going 1250 fps...

A Buffalo Bore 10mm 220 Hardcast is running 1200 fps...

Since I've been carrying a 4" .41 for bear/moose/cougar defense for over 40 years I've come to also appreciate the 10mm...

No hesitation about carrying one here...

Bob

I would think that a 10mm stoked with a full power 200 grain non-expanding load should be adequate, especially east of the Mississippi river.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

I'd like to see the math on that statement about 11-16% less powerful. Of course it depends on how you define power and what loads you're using but I can't come close to those numbers. More like 20-30% less from the few loads I've looked at.

I'm not dissing the 10mm. It's a good cartridge. But it's no .44, or even a .41 for that matter. These comparisons always seem to use the most powerful boutique ammo available for the 10mm but some random factory fodder for the .41s and .44s.

Go compare Underwood's 10mm to Underwood's .41 and .44. It's not even close.

"Oh, Mudder, Fadder.. Take me home! I hate Granada!

Don't leave me, out in the forest, where...

I might...

Get EATEN BY A BEAR!"

Cheers!

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Sit Reloader Sentiret

We go backpack camping in Bear Country, and weight is very important and I have owned 41 and 44 magnums and they were pretty heavy and I didn’t enjoy shooting them very much. I bought a Smith and Wesson M&P 4 inch 10 mm and carry it in a zipper gun pouch on the appendix part of my backpack belt. I like the Sig 180 grain flat point full metal jacket ammo at 1200 ft./s and recoil is not bad at all and I can shoot it fast and accurately. The tall sites make it easy to see them in dim light and I really love the gun, it’s become my favorite handgun and I have quite a few.

Most ammo manufacturers publish ballistics from a six-inch locked breach test barrel.

The 10mm ballistics overlaps the 357 magnum ballistics with both topping out around 800 foot-pounds of muzzle energy.

The 41 magnum tops out around 1,100 foot-pounds of muzzle energy. The 44 magnum tops out around 1,300 foot-pounds. The 454 Casull tops out around 1,900 foot pounds of muzzle energy.

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U.S. Navy - U.S. Army, ret

While not as fast as an African lion, which can cover 100 yards in nearly 1/3 the time of the fastest human, a bear is still pretty fast.
I have been bluff charged in Alaska and Southwest Montana, and I could have gotten maybe one shot, maybe two off had the bear not stopped the charge.
The Grizzly in Alaska charged from 40 yards but I had seen him and had the 12ga. pointed his way. He smartly decided to break off the charge.

The Griz that charged me a few miles outside Yellowstone had the slight advantage of charging downhill, but he went from 100 yards to 20 in maybe 4 seconds.
When he (or she ?) jumped over the last piece of chest high deadfall, I was trying dearly to keep the sights on his bobbing head and had the hammer of the 629 just about to fall, when his eyes got big, slammed on the brakes and ran back up the hill as fast as he had come down.
Sure glad I didn't have to shoot, he probably was too.

After the bear left, I found a dead elk at the top of that hill, pretty sure the Griz thought I was a black bear trying to get his meal, until he got close enough to see it was an armed human who wasn't running from him.

Don't show any fear and you're off to a good start. Your first instinct will be to run but acting like prey will not end well.
Unless there is a strong wind in your face, bear spray is a much safer option.
More options are good, carry both spray and a firearm.

The role of the big bore handgun is a last ditch effort when the bear is already within hugging distance.
Having 15 +1 is moot when 2 rounds is probably all you'd have time for.

Where the G20 shines is decent power and penetration while having lower recoil over most big bore revolvers, which should help for repeat shots.
But the first shot is what counts. If you are getting repeat shots, the bear is already on you.

I'll stick to my M69, it might not get back on target as fast as a 10mm, but for a .44 it is pretty pleasant to shoot.

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U. S. Army Veteran

I have no idea but occasionally rely on 10mm when waist deep in bear territory. I usually carry a 5" Model 629 when hiking in the Alligator River Wildlife area (far eastern swampy NC). Hurt my arm one year and was unable to shoot the 629 well. So, I used it as an excuse to buy a Glock 40. Carried the Glock 40 with heavy flat-nosed hard cast lead bullets. I THINK that they would penetrate if necessary. Also, you have about 15 chances and easy follow-up. I realize that black bears are smaller and softer than brown/grizzly bears.

That said, I have spent a lot of time deep in the Alligator River and surrounding area. The black bears are HUGE and common. Probably the highest concentration on the east coast. I have seen as many as 30, on foot, in a weekend. Some may be repeats. I have never, not once, had any problems with them. They take off running or slip into the swamp when surprised. The eastern NC black bears are 2+ times the size of western NC black bears because of diet. They eat crops. The food is plentiful.

Whether it is a 10mm or a 44, leave the hollow points at home. A cast bullet with a big flat point will penetrate straighter than any round nose. If you are in the brush or on the river bank, make noise. The worst attacks are when you surprise a mom with cubs-black or grizz. Pepper spray and a gun is not over doing it but the best bet is to not surprise one. I have never had any regrets about giving up my fishing spot to a hungry bear. After all, they don't come down to the river to bathe!

It's fine. Just shoot your companion in the knee and run.

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

Someone on this Forum once said to carry a .25 ACP but two of you up there covered the concept of outrunning your partner or shooting his knee - that was the point of the .25 ACP.

A friend of mine routinely goes fishing in Alaska and he brings back pictures of bears very close to himself or one of his companions and my reaction is I don't need to fish in Alaska that badly!

On the other hand, I had a friend who lived in bear country in Colorado and he and his wife had a wonderful back porch just made for sitting around on a nice evening sipping adult beverages so he kept his AR by his side for possible bear encounters that happily never happened.

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Come and take it!!

I love this thread...lets see it has:

• Bears
• Questions about adequacy of 10mm
• Typical false statement that a 10mm = .41 magnum

All we need now is a question if the firearm can handle +P safely.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

It was a Grizzly Bear, not a Polar Bear. Her name was Bella Twin.

Bella Twin and the Grizzly Bear

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No good deed goes unpunished.

In brown bear country besides a gun there is a large can of bear spray in a good holster on my hip and a Storm brand whistle around my neck.

Good bear spray holsters are relatively new to the market. UDAP had the first good one that I know of. Just like a firearms holster, they need to be secure and quick to present. Floppy textile holsters with a snap strap will cost you time.

The Storm brand whistle is louder than you imagine, you have to hear it to believe it. Affordable too. Get some for your favorite women as a panic whistle as well.
There is a Hyperwhistle on the market that claims to be a bit louder, but you can't hold it normally which makes it worthless in an emergency.

Projectiles. Hard cast lead is an oversold selling point, but it is in its element for woods defense. You need hardened slugs too.

First off I live in Ohio and have never faced a grizzly in the wild. So my opinion is worth much, haha. However:

In my humble opinion the circumstances matter. I mean if you're in Brown bear country and you're out in your backyard so to speak I'd say a 10mm is fine. Although I agree with the guys that say having 15 rds. or whatever most likely isn't going to matter much.

However if I'm going "up in the mountains" or way out in the outback I'm going to be armed with something more than a pistol. 12ga. loaded with slugs and 00buck, .338 wing mag? Something with A LOT more knock down power than a pistol.

Would you have a long gun on your person at all times?
Me either.
That is why the Sirius Patrol issues .30-06 and 10mm to their people.

And please, don't bother with buckshot against large, dangerous animals.
You are shooting to kill. Think of the ethics of wounding such an animal and letting someone else deal with it

It surprises me how many do the first up slug then the rest buck, or maybe slightly better, say they load one slug, one buck, one slug, one buck, etc.
I guess they are trying to cover all their bases.

The larger buckshot might do for a small black bear, but on a big one buck will just make it very mad unless one goes in the brain or you happen to break both shoulders. I wouldn't count on either.

A 12 ga. slug has awesome penetration, whereas the buck doesn't.
The reduced mass from having many little projectiles instead of one big one is the main reason for lack of penetration, that and a round ball is not a good shape.

If you need a test, shoot a 200 grain 44/40 against a 500 grain .458 diameter bullet into the same medium at the same velocity.
The .44/40 bullet is barely longer than it is wide, almost like a round ball with edges, not the greatest penetration.
The .45 bullet that is 3 times longer than it is wide will surprise you with how deep it will go, even at BP velocities.

Buck is favored though for following up wounded leopard as they tend to hole up in heavy cover when a client wounds one.
It is the PH's duty to follow up the animal so it doesn't harm others nearby, or go on a killing spree at the nearest village.
There isn't much time when it springs at you,and they are lightly built compared to a bear.

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U. S. Army Veteran

The powerful rounds made by buffalo bore are hard cast. I bought some Federal dangerous game loads that have some kind of blue coating on them. Syntec hard cast epoxy coating. 200gr @ 1300fps.

Well suppose you are just hiking or fishing? Usually in my case, the guide has "point protection" duty. Last one used a 45-70 lever. I asked why not a BAR? Lol. He said its a close toss up between the 45-70 and a semi auto with hot slugs. Whatever you have you must employ it quickly and accurately.

One huge advantage of a 10mm pistol, such as that Glock 40 MOS (I think) is the ability to run a red dot. The RDS has a lot of advantages under stress, if one trains with it.

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NHI, 10-8.

Yep . . . one experienced guide advised me to carry an air horn, similar to what you would use on a boat. He said that he knows of two instances where bear attacks were averted. He even had a two hand grip technique which the horn under the pistol could be actuated as you shoot. I think I would be shooting first then S*hitting my pants. "Walk loudly, talk loudly, and blow off that air horn every once in a while" . . . after the days outing who cares. Get back in one piece. He said that most attacks he knew of happened on the way back to base, taking a shortcut off the trail or walking too quietly.

True. I carried my 6in M44 mag in a shoulder rig because it was easy. I practiced drawing and felt reasonably sure I could pull it in time. I guess the feeling I have is that if I have only one gun, I want the extra rounds of a HP 10mm. My main choice would be the shotgun but never carried one.

Ammoland ran a story not long ago about an archery elk hunt in which one was hit and ran. When tracking it, a bear jumped them. The lead hunter stopped the grizzly with two shots from his G40. It got withing 15 yards of him before it fell. It was a huge bear.

Alaskans Stop Grizzly Bear Charge with Glock 10mm On Elmendorf-Richardson

Hollow point (HP) isn’t the greatest choice for a bear. Hard cast heavy bullets in an aggressive charge is maybe a far better way to go.I’ll choose the .44

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Although I believe that 10mm Auto is adequate for Bear Defense, if I were particularly concerned over the possibility of running into Bears, then I would carry this...



If a 10mm bullet will do the job, then an 18.5mm Slug packing roughly 5x the muzzle energy should make a career of it.

Also, it has the fringe benefit that if I mess up and knock myself unconscious trying to shoot the thing, then it ought to work as good as playing dead! It's fool-proof!

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Lots of good advice here in the previous posts.

I've killed more than a few big game animals, including a charging black bear and a standing Cape Buffalo.

The bear was shot at contact distance with a 444 Marlin rifle (300gr XTP's). It had powder burns on it's forehead. Bigger is better, but any handgun you can shoot accurately will be better than one you cannot. There are lots of documented bear kills with 9mm/357 class pistols.

I've carried both 10mm & 44 mags in bear country, and would feel well protected with either one. The real advantage of the revolver is it won't jam during a contact shot or be limited to one shot if you happen to eject the magazine by accident during the fight.

For me the handgun I'll carry is either a 45acp pistol with 230gr FMJ ammo, any good 10mm with 200gr FMJ's, or my 44Mag S&W M69 with 300gr solids at a stately 975-1000fps. All are easily carried and have enough penetration to stop with a head shot.

But for a primary weapon, it's at least a 308Win rifle or slug loaded shotgun.

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Captain Dave Funk

Location, location, location. Doesn't matter what you carry if you can't hit what you need to. Worry less about cartridge and more about what you can use quickly under stressful situations. As one of the previous posters linked to, a 22 can take down a grizzly. Would I want one, H$ll no. I think under the right circumstances you could carry a 357 on up and be okay.

Location, location, location

I grew up hunting and fishing Alaska.

I’m in the minority here. After what I’ve seen, there ain’t no way I’m trusting a 10MM for bear.

I remember when the 10 initially gained popularity for bear. It had nothing to do with shear stopping power. It was because of the spray and pray mentality.

The article the OP provided is proof of this and also proves that situational awareness is far more important. You should never find yourself surprised by a bear. And leave the dogs at home.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Yes...here they give classes in Bear Recognition. If it is a Black Bear or Grizzly, climb a tree! The Black Bear will climb up after you...the Griz will just shake you out of the tree!

Interesting, never thought of the fact a semi could jam during contact shot.

Hot 10mm is at about 800 ft-lbf of muzzle energy.
Hot .44 Magnum is at about 1,300 ft-lbf of muzzle energy. -> 63% more than 10mm
Hot 500 S&W Magnum is at about 3,000 ft-lbf of muzzle energy. -> 275% more than 10mm / 15,000 ft-lbf per cylinder

The revolver equivalent of 10mm Auto is .357 Magnum. Currently, the only viable semi-auto options punching in the same class as .44 Magnum are .429DE and .50AE.

My thoughts exactly. I live in Ohio as well, we have more black bear sightings where I live than any part of the state, yet I have never seen one. Luckily a Black Bear has a much different mentality than a Grizzly and are far smaller. I've never seen a bear other than in the zoo so my opinion does not mean much, however Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore has a ton of experience on the matter so I thought I'd link his thoughts which are backed by years of experience and actually hunting/defending against Brown bears. If you are out looking for bears I'd recommend something like a rifle or shotgun as suggested here, though I'm sure a 10mm would be better than nothing.

"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges

Ytube had a video of an illegal moose poaching in front of a snow mobile years ago. Don't know the caliber of the auto pistol involved.

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

In theory, yes. Has anyone ever heard a credible report of it actually happening?

My only bear encounter scared the heck out of me. He pushed on a tree and made it crack about 50 yards up a steep ridge from me, then slunk off into the bushes while I was jumping out of my skin.

Then he went on the highway and got hit by a car, which probably carried a lot more energy than the 9mm I had. It got him stuffed and displayed in the county museum.

This at a time when the state DNR was saying “No black bears around here, nope!”

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