Help Identifying a Couple Guns

My friend that died a month or so ago had a lot of guns. I went over to help his wife sort them out before a broker comes to look at them Friday.

One is an Enfield, the other is a black powder revolver rifle. He has a S&W 327 8 shot 357 with a picatinny rail on the front bottom of the barrel. It's light weight, would that be a TRR8?

The Enfield. Can anyone give me a ball park price?

Pics should get large if you click them.







The black powder thing. I doubt it's worth anything. I posted the only marking I could find on it.

The Enfield is a SMLE No1 MkIII* built at the Enfield factory in 1917. They are the SMLE most often seen from this period. That example has had the stock heavily sanded (looks like the sander went over the metal in picture #2) and from the pictures, may have suffered the indignity of polyurethane varnish. If you have had it in your hands you will likely be a better judge. Somebody has also left the bolt cocked.

Value is difficult to judge as you have not stated if it has matching numbers on the receiver, rear of the bolt handle, and on the nosepiece just under the muzzle. The stock treatment issues will hurt collector value, but unusually it has a full set of fingers on both front and rear top handguards. THose are frogile and frequently ended up clipped short by armorors. How is the bore? The proof mark is interesting as it suggests it went through a British proof house in 1956 if I'm reading it right.

LVSteve said:

The Enfield is a SMLE No1 MkIII* built at the Enfield factory in 1917. They are the SMLE most often seen from this period. That example has had the stock heavily sanded (looks like the sander went over the metal in picture #2) and from the pictures, may have suffered the indignity of polyurethane varnish. If you have had it in your hands you will likely be a better judge. Somebody has also left the bolt cocked.

Value is difficult to judge as you have not stated if it has matching numbers on the receiver, rear of the bolt handle, and on the nosepiece just under the muzzle. The stock treatment issues will hurt collector value, but unusually it has a full set of fingers on both front and rear top handguards. THose are frogile and frequently ended up clipped short by armorors. How is the bore? The proof mark is interesting as it suggests it went through a British proof house in 1956 if I'm reading it right.

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Thanks, I'll have her check the numbers tomorrow.

The cap & ball revolving carbine is of modern Italian production. These are interesting in that legally, in most jurisdictions, these are not "Firearms." GCA of 1968 exempts them from the paperwork of a 4473 form, It is a Black Powder Only gun of most likely of 44 Caliber and uses ,454 round balls. Also it is possibly a 36 caliber gun, but I've never seen one.

It used to be no gunshop would sell a used BP gun that wasn't an antique, and the value stayed around $100, but the times have changed and they seem to run around 50% of current market price of new, I'm totally guessing but think this gun should retail around $150-$200 if a 44, and in used but like new condition.

Ivan

Helped some close friends sell the late father's gun collection. There were a number of Enfields in various conditions from untouched to sporterized.
I was surprised at the interest, most went from 350 to 450 dollars.

The black powder revolving rifle is a reproduction of a Remington rifle from the 1860's and 70's. It's a popular gun with many black powder shooters and sells new in the $500 to $600 range. A clean used one should be an easy sale at @ $250 to $300 and might bring more in an auction.

The Lee Enfield is a No. 1 MKIII* as was posted earlier and values on those have risen steadily over the last few years. Even with the finish issues I would still expect it to sell in the $250 to $350 range on the current market so long as the bore is good. Shootable examples are getting hard to find and nicer ones are often priced at $500 and up. Even Drill Purpose rifles. which are unshootable wall hangers (or parts donors) are listing for $100 or more at distributors currently.

The revolving black powder carbine is a copy of a Remington. They are priced new at around $500 or so. A url link below is one at Midway. Since the one you pictured is used, value would be less. How much less would depend on condition, accessories included, etc.


Uberti 1858 Remington Black Powder Revolving Carbine 44 Cal 18 Barrel


The letters CN in a square are the Italian date code for 2015.

CAUTION !!!!!!

As posted by others, that Enfield bolt is cocked!! Open that bolt to insure empty chamber BEFORE anyone touches it any further.

I just saw two 1917 Enfields, all original, but really well worn and priced at $699.99 each. At a LGS but I think overpriced. We'll see how long they stand in the rack. Did see a nice WWII Jungle Carbine with original flash hider and all original, at $599.99 it lasted 2 days at this same store a while back, (no...I didn't get it)

It does seem that interest in Enfields is rising...maybe because 1903-A3's and Garands are mostly gobbled up, or priced in the stratosphere these days.

The 'Enfield' is a MkIII* (Mark 3 Star)

The (*) designation means the rifle was built to a standard that changed several features that were built onto the standard MkIII rifle
Done for ease of mfg'g generally.

Made at Enfield Arsenal in 1917
Properly called Short, Magazine Lee Enfield (Sht L E)
Most commonly called the SMLE

The rifle is simply a MkIII*.
The No1 rifle designation did not come about till the mid 1920's when
the English placed a Number designation on all of their battle rifles.
The MkIII and MkIII* .303cal became the No1 rifle
The MkIV .22rf training rifle version of the above became the No2
The Pattern (19)14 Enfield 303 became the No3
Later on in the 1930's the No4 rifle in 303 was adopted
The No5 (Jungle Carbine 303) as well.

The bbl proofs :
The Crown / crossed pennants/P is the Military Proof mark
Crown/ 56/E is an Enfield Arsenal inspectors mark. The 56 being the individual inspector. Who that was at the time, I don't think there are ary records available.

The other proof:
Crown/BNP is a Birmingham Proof House Nitro (Smokeless) Proof mark
This is a later proof mark than the other two and likely done before the rifle was released to the commercial market.

Looks like the front sling swivel is missing. Those are available
That and the rear swivel are off-set. When installed the off-set goes to the right side of the rifle. That was for the earlier Mk1 and MkIII rifles that included Volley sites on the rifles. The sling was in the way if centered. Volley Sites were done away with as one change when the rifles went from MkIII* to MkIII.
But the swivels continued to be mfg'd with the off set feature .

The round hole in the right side of the butt stock is for a Brass ID disk. It was held in place with a brass screw. On it the Armorers would mark Unit numbers and the like.
That practice fell from use and many of the brass disc's were pulled, lost, damaged and the hole simply filled with a wooden plug.
Many were filled when the stocks were re-done during an Arsenal refinish and repair (FTR).

Any decent SMLE will easily get $400 and up these days.
Usually up.

Bore condition, originality and matching numbers are the big things that bring the $$.
Any nice SMLE is a sought after rifle these days.

As others have noted it looks like a coating of some sort of varnish or poly on the wood. Some sandpaper scratches as well.
But all together the rifle is pretty nice.

With some more info on bore condition and more pics of the bolt and other parts a better idea of originality can be made.
Many of these are parts guns meaning switched parts.
It brings the value down but they still have a big audience.

A matching rifle with a VG bore I would think would sell easily for $400/$500

Lonegle57 said:

Helped some close friends sell the late father's gun collection. There were a number of Enfields in various conditions from untouched to sporterized.
I was surprised at the interest, most went from 350 to 450 dollars.

Click to expand...

This. I have noticed that any SMLE or No.4 Enfield in its original form sells for $300-350 minimum at the online estate auctions plus the buyer's premium. This is a far cry from the days 15 years ago where even very nice examples of the SMLE were pushed to make $250.