|
|
10-10-2023, 10:59 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 3,326
Liked 4,356 Times in 739 Posts
|
|
Civil War Relic?
Have this old knife that my dad bought at a gun show in Texas or Oklahoma in the 50's. He always thought it was Confederate.
The blade is brass I think. Flat on one side. Like a stiletto on the other. High point running down the center of the blade and slopes to each side.
Looks homemade to me. The metal at the back of the hilt is steel I think. Has a bit of rust on it.
My dad thought it might be a powder knife. Because brass and flat on one side.
__________________
David Reynolds
Last edited by DARE; 10-10-2023 at 11:08 AM.
|
The Following 9 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-10-2023, 11:02 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,187
Likes: 2,178
Liked 7,312 Times in 1,635 Posts
|
|
Don't know if it's a civil war relic or not. Looks like a hand-made pig sticker to me.
__________________
SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-10-2023, 12:03 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,472
Likes: 806
Liked 3,062 Times in 1,015 Posts
|
|
Why do you think the blade is brass? Have you tried a magnet?
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-10-2023, 12:06 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 3,326
Liked 4,356 Times in 739 Posts
|
|
Looks like brass. Just tried a magnet. Does not stick. A magnet does stick to the metal at the back of the hilt.
__________________
David Reynolds
Last edited by DARE; 10-10-2023 at 12:26 PM.
|
10-10-2023, 01:22 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Chesterfield, Va.
Posts: 6,297
Likes: 8,935
Liked 13,323 Times in 3,303 Posts
|
|
Looks like what I've seen called an "Arkansas Toothpick." It might have some connection to the war, but I doubt it was anything official. Private purchase, maybe a local unit or some such thing.
Brass might have been used for working with powder, or it might have just been what was available.
__________________
John 3:16 .
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-10-2023, 03:37 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 3,326
Liked 4,356 Times in 739 Posts
|
|
Wikipedia says Arkansas Toothpick is a heavy dagger with a 12-20" blade.
Blade on this one is 7" and flat on one side. Would not describe it as heavy.
__________________
David Reynolds
|
10-10-2023, 03:45 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 3,326
Liked 4,356 Times in 739 Posts
|
|
Maybe some scale will help with evaluation. 7" blade, 11 1/2" overall.
__________________
David Reynolds
Last edited by DARE; 10-10-2023 at 05:58 PM.
|
10-10-2023, 05:45 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 8,448
Likes: 2,499
Liked 13,206 Times in 4,578 Posts
|
|
If it's got a short blade then I'd describe it as a mini-Arkansas Toothpick.
__________________
Come and take it!!
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-10-2023, 11:19 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: HEART of TEXAS
Posts: 568
Likes: 579
Liked 923 Times in 299 Posts
|
|
That is in fact an Arkansas Toothpick . I have many Civil War gun and knife books from old collection. Many 1850-70 knives were homemade. No set length or width, just whatever steel that was available.
__________________
V/r,
Markham
Last edited by Claymore33; 10-10-2023 at 11:24 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-10-2023, 11:35 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 3,326
Liked 4,356 Times in 739 Posts
|
|
Thank you Markham. Made of brass I think, maybe because steel was not available? Would you put mine in the 1850-1870 era?
Do you think it is Confederate?
Would value your opinion.
__________________
David Reynolds
Last edited by DARE; 10-10-2023 at 11:39 PM.
|
10-11-2023, 01:44 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,644
Likes: 242
Liked 29,156 Times in 14,097 Posts
|
|
It might be bronze. Bronze was the preferred metal for fabricating all kinds of edged weapons for thousands of years. Much tougher than copper and other copper alloys such as brass. And steel hadn't yet been invented.
Last edited by DWalt; 10-11-2023 at 01:47 AM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-11-2023, 05:41 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,472
Likes: 806
Liked 3,062 Times in 1,015 Posts
|
|
The use of brass or bronze for a knife blade is puzzling. Could it be a Naval dirk?
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-11-2023, 08:58 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: SE Wyoming
Posts: 2,983
Likes: 4,748
Liked 4,791 Times in 1,679 Posts
|
|
I do firearms and edged weapons research at the local museum. Probably impossible to determine if the knife has Confederate provenance. Blade material is puzzling, maybe just what was available to the maker at the time. Non sparking bronze may be a clue, but it looks like a one off, handmade knife. Iron and steel was used for naval weapons. Someone with a ship may have asked for this. In short, all is speculation.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-11-2023, 11:38 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 3,326
Liked 4,356 Times in 739 Posts
|
|
To summarize opinion;
Brass or bronze blade
Homemade
Arkansas Toothpick
Cannot say Confederate
What about age? Is it Civil War era?
__________________
David Reynolds
Last edited by DARE; 10-11-2023 at 11:39 AM.
|
10-11-2023, 12:45 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The SW Va Blue Ridge
Posts: 17,548
Likes: 89,905
Liked 24,944 Times in 8,538 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
It might be bronze. Bronze was the preferred metal for fabricating all kinds of edged weapons for thousands of years. Much tougher than copper and other copper alloys such as brass. And steel hadn't yet been invented.
|
The Jenks carbine of 1844 was built by Remington out of cast steel.
__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-11-2023, 01:29 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: HEART of TEXAS
Posts: 568
Likes: 579
Liked 923 Times in 299 Posts
|
|
Of course it would have started out with Confederate soldier. We went to war with what ever we had, especially in the WEST( that would be everyplace west of Atlanta) Bowie knives , Arkansas Toothpicks and so forth mostly homemade by blacksmith. In the East both North and South had issued uniforms , weapons and horses. That knife could have been made from 1830 to 1890. I cannot verify Civil War Provenance.
__________________
V/r,
Markham
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-11-2023, 05:49 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NE IL but I'm from Ohio
Posts: 2,077
Likes: 117
Liked 3,089 Times in 895 Posts
|
|
What is that handle? Hollow, Cane or Bamboo?
__________________
Sceva
OGCA SWCA NRA
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-11-2023, 06:08 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: WV
Posts: 2,439
Likes: 409
Liked 2,851 Times in 1,266 Posts
|
|
I'm guessing the blade is bronze. I agree with the others that there is no way to tell if it's confederate or even from the civil war period for sure.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-11-2023, 06:18 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 3,326
Liked 4,356 Times in 739 Posts
|
|
Can't answer your questions about the handle. Cannot tell if it is hollow or not. Don't think it is bamboo or cane. Wood for sure. Seems to be stained.
__________________
David Reynolds
|
10-11-2023, 07:17 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,187
Likes: 2,178
Liked 7,312 Times in 1,635 Posts
|
|
That pommel on the butt looks like it might have been a rowel from an old spur.
__________________
SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS
Last edited by Eric300; 10-11-2023 at 07:20 PM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-12-2023, 09:07 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NE IL but I'm from Ohio
Posts: 2,077
Likes: 117
Liked 3,089 Times in 895 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARE
Can't answer your questions about the handle. Cannot tell if it is hollow or not. Don't think it is bamboo or cane. Wood for sure. Seems to be stained.
|
In the one photo it looked like a hole in the side.
Without markings or provenance it is probably all speculation.
__________________
Sceva
OGCA SWCA NRA
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-12-2023, 09:38 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 3,326
Liked 4,356 Times in 739 Posts
|
|
There is a hole in the side. So I guess that means it is hollow. Did not think about it like that.
__________________
David Reynolds
|
10-12-2023, 10:26 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,644
Likes: 242
Liked 29,156 Times in 14,097 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil
The Jenks carbine of 1844 was built by Remington out of cast steel.
|
In the so-called Bronze Age of antiquity, there was no steel, other than what came from meteors. There was some very limited steel made several thousand years ago, but it was extremely expensive and not much like today's steel. It wasn't until the late 18th Century that technology had advanced enough so steel could be produced in industrially useful quantities. And that was the dawn of the industrial revolution.
Last edited by DWalt; 10-12-2023 at 10:42 AM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-12-2023, 10:42 AM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The SW Va Blue Ridge
Posts: 17,548
Likes: 89,905
Liked 24,944 Times in 8,538 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
In the so-called Bronze Age of antiquity, there was no steel, other than what came from meteors. There was some very limited steel made several thousand years ago, but it was extremely expensive and not much like today's steel. It wasn't until the late 18th Century that technology had advanced enough so steel could be produced in industrially useful quantities.
|
True. However, we are discussing a knife that may have been built in the mid 19th Century. Starting sometime after Jim Bowie's sandbar fight, Great Britain started importing Sheffield made Bowie knives and daggers in large quantities.
__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|