What are your views on side saddles? Extra capacity is an objective good in firearms, however, there is the counterargument that they can effect the balance of the gun, potentially cause cycling issues in semi-auto shotguns, and potentially could distract from the sights. I am just curious how people here view them and why?

If it was the end of the world or I was an “operator” in a hostile environment kicking in doors, then sure. For a 18” Mossberg 500 next to my bed? MEH. If worried about balance you can use old school nylon sleeve with loops on stock.

Pumps for defensive use get them. However, training/repetition is needed to load from them well.

I am a fan of the fabric ones that attach via a velcro strip to the receiver. I have used the plastic ones as well, but they tend to add bulk, and if stored loaded eventually they loosen up and you lose shells that are brass down (there can be reasons to have some shells up and some down).

The fabric ones can loosen too, but are cheaper/easier to replace when it happens. They add less bulk/weight, and if you carry extras (in a go bag for example), you can just remove the empty carrier and put a full one on there.

That is sort of my view on them as well. I am not going to deny the capacity they bring, however, at least for me, the negatives outweigh the +5. I can certainly see why some people feel more comfortable with them though. It is just, that like you, what is in the tube of my Mossberg 500 is more than enough for me to sleep soundly at night.

Even when I duck hunt with it, I have shell holders built into my chest waders that are accessible enough if the need ever arises.

I use Brown Coat Tactical shot cards on my Mossberg 500A HD gun

I vote a big "Yay". The drawback to shotguns for tactical or defensive purposes is the limited number of rounds onboard. The side saddle provides ready access to additional rounds if needed. However, I prefer the shell cards to hard plastic side saddles. I have 5-rd and 7-rd shell cards (e.g. Esstac), which attach with velcro and have elastic loops. They are relatively inexpensive, and provide lots of options for quickly changing ammo types (buckshot, slugs). They can be easily carried in pockets or pouches, or on a vest. I also have a MatchSaverz 1-rd shell holder mounted in front of the loading port. I recently attended a 10-hr Defensive Shotgun and shot over 250 rounds of birdshot, buckshot, and slugs. I never noticed the additional weight of the shell cards or MatchSaverz, but I was sure glad to have ready access to the additional ammo when I was reloading!

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My little 20 gauge 510 Youth model [anyone in the family can use] only holds 3 so 5 [3buck/2slugs] on the butt in an elastic sleeve are a welcome addition for grab and go.

Pure gunfighting theorist gimmick unless you're in a real war. Keep it simple. Four or five rounds is a lot more than you think it is, especially with a shotgun.

'My Pillow' may offer some soft cuddly PJ's with loops sewn into the front for over nite secure snoozing. Maybe a bandoleer is the answer.

I never cared for any of the extra ammo pouch
or carrier hanger-on-things that attach to the firearm.
I do put extra shells in my pocket though.

Depending on what the purpose of the shotgun is....yes.

I have an 870 with a sidesaddle to give me extra shells. In my experience it doesn't add much weight or bulk.

I believe Clint Smith said it best....you will fight with what's in the gun and what's on the gun.

Id much rather have extra ammo on the gun in the event it's necessary than not.

If the shotgun is just a "fun" gun and not something I intend to use for any specific purpose, then I see no need.

If I want extra ammo for a personal SD shotgun, I will buy one with an extended mag tube.

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213th FBINA

I have some loops on the stock of my defense guns, purely to add slugs to the gun which is typically loaded with shot.
Stuffing a slug into the gun fast has been the answer to a couple of problems in the past, and not having them on the gun would have made that impossible at those times.

As a person that does not like guns that look like they belong to a gun accessory salesman, I do not do much accessorizing.

I have two Mossberg pumps handy for possible use in interesting situations.

I have a nine shot tube magazine feed and a 10 round detachable magazine gun. Hopefully it will not be needed at all but if called on I also keep a bandoleer close to each gun with extras.

FWIW we (wife & I) live rural and there is the possibility of 4 legged problems along with two legged ones. My shotguns are set to first fire 5 rounds of 00 buck followed up with slugs.

For the record not a fan of most add on items as I subscribe to the KISS principal.

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

I keep 3 slugs in my waders while duck hunting because we have many black bear sightings where I live. I understand that reasoning completely.

Think the real concern is practice your reloading from the holders or pockets, still lots of opportunity to fumble getting them in the magazine under stress. Can see a quick one to the open chamber but otherwise maybe the NY reload (a handy spare). If I've fired 5 to 8 rounds of buckshot and there's still a problem, time to up the game - AR, ranch rifle or hi-cap - or stay out of some situations. Not a LEO or doorkicker so different for others.

I've got a side saddle on this little 12 gauge, but the Fed's say it's not a shotgun.



My SD shotgun has an extended mag tube, but it also stores 4 additional shells in the stock. No such thing as too much ammo, unless you're climbing a mountain or you fall in a lake!

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"I also cook."

I don't care for anything hard attached to the receiver, but I have a soft one that stretches over the buttstock that holds 5, and a padded sling that has loops for 15 more. Plug is out of the magazine. If I thought I'd ever need 25 rounds, I should audition for The Walking Dead.

But you never know....

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I own two 500's, one 870, & two 97's. I have nylon sleaves for the butts. I Live in town now, so the risk of a late night unwelcome visit is higher, but the neighbors are very close. My SD gun has a 1325fps, 1 1/8 ounce, 7 1/2 shot. that will mess up anything at across the room distances, and hopefully none of the shot makes it into the next condo.

Police training shows that people are the slowest game animals and easy to hit unless on a motorcycle or car. The balance and swing of a 8 to 10 round shotgun is NOT a thing of beauty!

My BOB shotgun is a Savage Model 24C 22LR/20 gauge With a nylon sleave. I carry two boxes of twenty mixed sizes: 5- No4 Buck; 5- Slugs; 5 #4 birdshot: & 5- # 7 1/2 birdshot. Times two=40 rounds 20 gauge and two 100 packs of CCI Mini-Mags, sling and detachable low power scope zeroed for the mini-mags. I'm already at my weight & bulk limits!

I would prefer to never fire any gun is SD/anger, but some people just won't let sleeping wolves lie.

Ivan

S&WCHAD, here in NY they outlawed the “other” labeled firearms. I always thought they served great as a home defense option. Especially with the seemingly endless choices of shells. And they are affordable.

My HD shotgun is a Benelli M4. Loaded with #1 buck, ready to go chamber loaded. It wears a side saddle with 6 additional rounds. Have practiced reloading many times to be comfortable.

It also wears a Leupold DeltaPoint RDS.

I have a sidesaddle on my 8+1 870. It works great for me. I have practiced reloading from it quite a bit.

The defensive shotgun, like the revolver, offers lower round count than the auto pistol or defensive carbine. That makes reloading a higher priority at training time.

In my experience taking classes and in local competition, using a 2 round 1 hand reload technique from my sidesaddle works best for me. My sidesaddle is polymer. The rounds are farther apart than with an elastic web loop model but held more firmly. I prefer "brass down" for less wasted motion during the reload, and have no problem. I have seen others leave a trail of shells during movement and weapon manipulation using the elastic web loops on the gun or their body. Because the loops are closer together shooters using web loops can often pluck 3 rounds at a time from their sidesaddle when I'm limited to 2. Guys who carry rounds "brass up" have better luck retaining their ammo in web loops.

If I don't train and practice with my defensive tools I worry about my ability to handle them under stress.

Esstac Velcro cards on pumps and my chopped Model 11. A leather cuff from Galco on my coach gun. Cards on the receiver allow a cheek weld on either side of the butt stock. I haven’t had much luck with the elastic butt cuffs they stretched out and would not hold shells reliably on the move. Clint Smith said you’ll fight with what is in and on it he gun.

I have had one on my 870 for decades. I keep the shells brass up and then don't insert the shell past the plastic so that the plastic won't get stretched out. I had it before the velcro cards were a thing.

It was my training shotgun for when I was on the tactical team at work (we initially were very dependant on 870s till we got enough MP5s then UMPs) and went through a Rob Haught course in 2009.

It is the fastest way to get the shotgun loaded. Clint Smith said something about feeding them...

But then I also have a speed feed stock on my 870. I keep a couple of slugs in it (cut it down to shorten the LOP), the side saddle and magazine have fliterite 00 buckshot in them.

If I need to grab the shotgun for a bump in the night, I want to have a few extra rounds, and a few options. I don't feel 4-6 rounds is enough.

ETA: the ghost rings let me engage a silhouette target out to 100 yards easy, and then that surefire forearm is one of the originals with a Malkoff bulb upgrade. My 870 has been set up like this for decades and it works for me.

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I only use double barreled shotguns and only for birds and clays.

I can’t imagine how much a sidesaddle with a few rounds hanging from the side of my Parker 0 frame would screw up my gun handling. Besides, what would I do with the extra ammo?

I can’t remember a time when I needed more than what’s in the gun, although I went through a phase when I was 13 when hunting with a Remington 1100 in Kansas or Nebraska when I was allowed to take the magazine plug out and load 5. Colorado only allows one in the chamber and two in the magazine.

Carrying 5 in the Remington really wore me out. Not the sort of thing I wanted to do more than once or twice.

I don’t understand why in the heck are you concerned about the weight of 5 or so spare shot shells upsetting the balance of your shotgun? A full box of them hanging off the side of the gun, I can understand, but 5?

Picture in your mind the picture of granny running off the bad guys with a long barrelled double barrel.

I can understand the concept you mention of the extra rounds wearing you out as a kid. When I went to that Rob Haught course I had a +2 magazine extension. After hundreds of evolutions of firing, loading, etc all with the shotgun shouldered and ready during that two day course (I fired nearly 1K of shotgun ammo-and not the low dram stuff, I wanted to really test my endurance... Yikes!) And no, my shoulder wasn't sore, you have to experience Rob's technique of push/pull.

As you can see from my picture above, I now have a +1 extention...

ETA: but to tell you the truth, I don't think that side saddles go with double barrels for clays/trap or hunting. Some of those "tactical" doubles that are out there maybe, but those are stretching it I think when you can get an inexpensive pump for just as much if not cheaper.

Yes. Esstac card on my Maverick 88. Simple, efficient way to carry extra shells for my shotgun.

You are 1000% RIGHT..........Gimmick. Anything hung on the stock/receiver will throw the gun way out of balance.........IF you want a few more rounds get a magazine extension......Then the extra rounds will already be in your gun....Check out shotguns used in Vietnam and by police....No such gimmick on their shotguns.

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S&W Accumulator

Well said. Nice shotgun and 'other' you got there! That's a 20" barrel, correct? 8 rounds tube?

My 590A1 is shorter at 18.5" and 6 in tube only. And I too have an 'other' 590 shorty. No saddles or any other customizations yet on mine. May add a light to the big one next.

I don't disagree that the average SD shotgun could use more capacity. That's why I went with the Kel-tec KSG. 14+1 better get it done.

I keep a soft 5-shot loop band on my coach gun, with the tubes empty.
4 00 buck and a birdshot.
Not sure why, it's just there.

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Because of the metric system?

This pretty much sums up my opinion of them as well ^^^

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Some Might Say.

I don’t use them. In the unlikely event that I need extra shotgun shells, I have a fanny pack facing forward with extra ammunition.

I think a side saddle adds too much bulk. Even in some type of “operator” scenario I would rather reload or top off from a vest pocket or something like that.

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Sorry, but I have to disagree. 5- or 7-rounds throwing your 7 lb. shotgun out of balance? Not likely. Here is a local SWAT trade-in shotgun that I picked up years ago...it's an 870 Police Magnum that was issued with side saddle and forend light. Police and the military also have the advantage of wearing tactical vests that allow for lots of additional rounds being readily available. That may not be an option for civilians in a home defense situation.

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I'm not sure what an "operator" is but I believe it to be a completely consumed firearms carrying hobbyist as opposed to someone that is competent, well-practiced and is reasonably prepared.

I don't use "hobbyist" with necessarily a negative implication. It seems concealed carry (as well as carrying or having handy any type of longarm) has created an entirely new offshoot hobby, rife with all kinds of accessories, add-ons, specialized schooling, as well as impractical guns that are popular because someone's seen them used in a movie.

Some of that's fine when going to war, but for defensive use in today's world, it's a bit too much when people live, dream, and get eaten up with the possibility of the "ultimate confrontation".

I'd be inclined to see those who are only "reasonably prepared" as "better prepared".

I'm not an operator, or one who sleeps in a Tactical vest or have a "fanny pack facing forward or have two bandoleros across my chest .

As I said above [post 7] IMHO. as a civilian home owner, it's going to be "grab and go",and a Squidsix said having a couple of slugs "with you" can make all the difference.

Heck; having a few more rounds allows you to follow the President's advice to just stick your shotgun out the window and fire off a round!

I have two defensive/offensive shotguns. One has no real need for a side saddle and the have a slip on sleeve for five rounds on the stock.

1.) This is my copy of a USMC Remington M870 Mk.1. This is a straight up combat first built for the Corps in 1968. I found the parts at a gun show over 30 years ago and made this one up. It hold 8 in the magazine.

2.) a Winchester Model 1912 made in 1918. Got it with a poly choke on it and then cut the barrel to 18 inches. It has a stock sleeve to hold 5 extra rounds and has 5 in the magazine.

Have not noticed a balance problem with the stock sleeve, in fact I think the extra weight helps with recoil. Or it could be the 2 1/2 inch shells it is chambered for.

I tried at one time a sling with about 10 or 12 2 3/4 inch shells on it. When you swung the gun up to shoot the swaying of the sling threw the sight picture all over the place.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Nope.

I’ve never needed to use more than the tube capacity for a shotgun in any hunting scenario I’ve ever been in. I don’t see the need to add the weight and bulk to an otherwise trim field shotgun.

I don't keep a shotgun loaded as a home defense weapon. For my purposes a handgun is more useful. Nonetheless, a few of my riot guns have either side saddle or butt cuff. A few of them don't. The ammo mounted to the shotgun is for the time when I need to grab the gun "right d#&*! now and no time to grab ammo. Those times, however, are usually when I'm on the family property or in the woods and have a shotgun on hand for varmints and other 4 legged problems. In my circumstances I do not usually like to leave the gun loaded. 2 slugs, 2 00B, 2 birdshot on the cuff give me instant options and are usually enough. On patrol, back in the day, I slipped a butt cuff filled with Brennekes on my 870 to augment the 00B in the tube. We didn't wear "tactical vests" or "combat belts" or any such things. I learned early on that when you bailed from the zone car, you solved your problem with what you had on you. Those extra rounds were comforting on occasions.
Under circumstances when I am carrying the shotgun or anticipating imminent use (as opposed to grabbing and going) I usually have a shotgun without ammo on it. I will then have ammo in a vest or shoulder bag. So I guess I'm saying is that I use what method I need to use when I need it...in this and other things in life. Seems to have worked for me for all my time.

I'm a huge fan of side saddles/ extra ammo onboard. Not necessarily because I would expect to utilize a dozen rounds or more if the gun were to be used, but due to versatility. For starters, it allows a readily increased versatility.

For example in my state, duty shotguns tend to have buckshot in the tube, and slugs in the side saddle for increased range, accuracy, and penetration. In fact, a side saddle is an actual state requirement for a duty shotgun.

Even outside of pure protection, it's nice to have a mag loaded with #4 for small game and slugs for surly bear encounters.

Additionally, it makes storage handier in that the gun can be stored entirely empty with an empty mag and chamber, but a quick load is nearby.

I've heard more about them fouling up a semi auto than I've seen. I seem to recall hearing that it's really not an issue with gas operated shotguns? I have heard it's an issue on recoil operated shotguns, but the experience I've had with Remington Model 11s and Beretta 1200s seems to indicate otherwise.

Interestingly, in the book "Holloway's Raiders" (A must read!) a stakeout unit that specifically used shotguns is the topic at hand. Basically, when 24 Hour convenience stores were a new thing, they were getting tore up by robberies. So, they made a special stakeout squad armed with shotguns that pretty much hid out in backrooms and freezers to prevent this. There is much to be considered regarding the ole short barreled shotgun, but take home was that the shotgun was an amazingly effective weapon. More than a round or two was very rare. More than three rounds was pretty much a statistical anomaly.

Again, awesome book regarding shotguns and filled with those cool old school police stories.

Final fun fact: In the state of Alaska there is a two shot minimum standard response for every weapon EXCEPT the slug loaded shotgun, which is a 1 shot minimum standard response. 9mm, .40, 45, 5.56,.308, etc. That's...noteworthy in my considered opinion. Minimum standard response is pretty much the minimally expected number of shots required, not a hard and fast rule or anything.

Okay..I lied. One more mental meandering...When I was a much younger man I once set up an 870 with a heap of ammo onboard. I seem to recall it was nine in the tube, six in a side saddle, four in a Speed Feed stock, and another six or seven in a butt cuff. I showed it to my Father and my Uncle who had both served in Vietnam. My Father held it, scowled and launched into a tirade about how ridiculously heavy, absurd, useless and idiotic it was. (He's never been once to mince words, though his opinion was interesting for a fella that eschewed the M-16 in favor of an M-14 and usually ran the M-60) My Uncle handled it, looked it over carefully and shrugged. He said "I dunno...this would have been really darn nice to have behind the seat when my chopper went down..."

Perspectives, I reckon...

I've got a Mossberg Shockwave and a 500. I put sidesaddles on both.

Additionally, I added a TactaLoad Flash 5 buttstock to the 500. Since I use minishells in both, I can put 8 rounds in the tube, one in the chamber, 6 on the side, and 5 standard 2 3/4 slugs in the stock...20 rounds total. I don't expect to ever need to use that many in a home defense situation, but I take comfort in knowing that they're there if I need them.